Israel Thread

[AE Bravo]

Soooooo if they are less racist and less murderous, they are better in the realm of human rights. That is you are saying. And how are they less capable of being murderous? Just look at Assad in Syria now. Are you saying his crimes arent as bad as Israels?

Notice I never said human rights, I was responding to Pannonian saying that Israel is the only civilized country in the region.

As for Assad, he may be just as bad but this is not a stable country, he lost control of it. With Israeli military, we can see a clearcut connection between military action and civilian deaths. We don’t have enough info to say the same about Syria, especially with evidence surfacing that the chemical attack was by a military dissident. Israel and Palestine don’t have the same factionalism obscuring reality.

You do realize that Iranian soldiers are directly involved in Syria's civil war, right? If you studied Iranian foreign policy even a little bit you would understand that while they might not be starting wars they certainly participate in them. Like in Yemen. Iraq. Syria. Afghanistan to a limited extent. I will agree, lack of voting rights for such a large chunk is criminal. But on the other hand, lets not pretend that Iran is a shrine of voting rights. The 2009 Green Movement didnt happen for nothing. And if you think that religious minorities in Iran have much in the way of religious freedom you arent doing any research at all into what religious minorities go through in Iran.

For sure. I personally am not a fan of Iran's leadership but having studied their foreign policy, it’s more about maintaining as opposed to Israel’s (and US allies) disrupting. For one, Israel carries out assassinations on foreign soil, treats injured insurgents, and doesn’t really value the territorial integrity of most of its neighbors (i.e. UNSC 242).

Iran, on the other hand, has a much less hostile, more consistent, and realist foreign policy.
- They have the permission of the de facto Syrian leadership to help them fight the insurgencies.
- Helped the US in Afghanistan
- Filled a vacuum in Iraq after the US applied its sectarian plan there, now fighting AQ and Daesh.
- No direct involvement in Yemen, arming a homegrown organization that has always been part of Yemen’s body politic

I only said that Iran is more liberal in some respects, which is true. But there is no denying that Iran has a politically sound foreign policy, which can’t be said about Israel. They don't start wars either.

Also why dont we compare military operations with one another instead of comparing a military operation with a crackdown on protesters? According to the UN, 12,000 Yemeni civilians have been killed by the Saudi-led coalition so its not like anyone else in the region is in any way better.

That’s way too high. Not to downgrade the crimes by the coalition but the civilian death count was around 3,000 last time I checked, so that must be the total. I mentioned that Saudi are approaching IDF levels of crimes sure, but unlike Israel they have a UNSC resolution on their side despite the war crimes.

Again I never said Israel is the worst, I only explained why it absolutely isn't the best or "least worse."

[Hooahguy]

Israel are bad but the other countries are worse. Ranging from slightly worse in the best cases, to considerably worse in most of them.

And I agree with you.

Notice I never said human rights, I was responding to Pannonian saying that Israel is the only civilized country in the region.

Human rights is a super broad category. The things you mentioned fall under this super broad category.

As for Assad, he may be just as bad but this is not a stable country, he lost control of it. With Israeli military, we can see a clearcut connection between military action and civilian deaths. We don’t have enough info to say the same about Syria, especially with evidence surfacing that the chemical attack was by a military dissident. Israel and Palestine don’t have the same factionalism obscuring reality.

So you are insinuating that Assad has little control over his own military? I find that very hard to believe. And his war crimes are not limited to the chemical attacks as you also have the barrel bombs and the general targeting of civilians by loyalist forces.

Iran, on the other hand, has a much less hostile, more consistent, and realist foreign policy.
- They have the permission of the de facto Syrian leadership to help them fight the insurgencies.

Permission to help prop up the rather murderous Assad regime.

- Helped the US in Afghanistan

And arms the Taliban at the same time.

- Filled a vacuum in Iraq after the US applied its sectarian plan there, now fighting AQ and Daesh.

And arms Shia militias who are now accused of war crimes against Sunnis in Iraq. I will say that Iran is overall doing good now in Iraq, but Iran is no saint here. And dont forget that during the Iraq War, Iran was arming the insurgency.

- No direct involvement in Yemen, arming a homegrown organization that has always been part of Yemen’s body politic

I dunno, arming rebels seems to be a form of involvement. Maybe not troops on the ground but they certainly are involved.

I only said that Iran is more liberal in some respects, which is true. But there is no denying that Iran has a politically sound foreign policy, which can’t be said about Israel. They don't start wars either.

Name the ways they are more liberal, besides voting rights (which I will agree with you on). And just because they dont start wars doesnt make a country automatically have a sound foreign policy. Lots of factors go into how to evaluate a foreign policy, not just if they start wars or not.

That’s way too high. Not to downgrade the crimes by the coalition but the civilian death count was around 3,000 last time I checked, so that must be the total. I mentioned that Saudi are approaching IDF levels of crimes sure, but unlike Israel they have a UNSC resolution on their side despite the war crimes.

Fair enough, I looked at the numbers again and you are correct.

Again I never said Israel is the worst, I only explained why it absolutely isn't the best or "least worse."

You say that, but your previous posts seem to say the opposite.