Israel Thread

[Gilrandir]

What I know an of course I don't know, but experts on these things say it was an older model because of the exit damage, the type only Ukraine has.

Russian experts?

[Fragony]

Russian experts?

Not as far as I know, experts on weapon-systems at least, older models supposedly leave differerent exit-damage, and it looks like itwas shot from behind. Seems logical to me as it was exit-damage, not frontal. But again, I don't really care who it was these people are dead and that's how far I am willing to care, that plane just shouldn't have been flying over a warzone. Everybody was probably dead the second the plane was hit, I hope at least, but it was completily torn apart so they probably were. There are a lot of questions to be asked though, I don't believe that all Ukrian's radars were into maintanance at the same time, nobody would do that. Common sense would say that the association-deal is more important than the M17 for some, had it been Russia it would have been used into their advantage to creep up on Russia's borders.

[AE Bravo]

To you maybe.

I think you misunderstood what I was saying. I was pointing out that most of the same people who call out Israel for their crimes are also the ones who say that Hezbollah at the very least has elements which engage in terrorist activities. Some go further and label the whole thing as a terror organization but some which just label certain parts of Hezbollah, acknowledging the fact that there are parts of the group which actually do good for the Lebanese people.

Their whole schtick is unethical just like any religious group, but at the same time it does nothing to label them “terrorists" since they're not like any other group. Best to not disqualify them altogether and avoid being in utter denial of the workings of ME politics and Lebanese society in particular, because this is a mini state not a bunch of rebels. Lets not forget this started as a resistance movement to begin with to fend off invaders, and labelling them “terrorists” is what drove them to the country that didn’t label them as such - Iran.

Whether it's the same people or not, look: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...rrorist_groups This isn't something that's unanimous and most certainly isn't a fact. Look up terrorism you'll find different definitions that often extend to what states are doing right now. If you have to be a non-state actor to be labelled a terrorist, and a popular movement to boot operating legally within a state like Lebanon, the word loses its value.

Maybe safer. They are still pariahs to an extent, and only beginning to shed that label with the recent nuclear deal.

They’re considered pariahs by a few countries that have more dangerous effects on the world than they do, sure.

[AE Bravo]

If it looks like apartheid, swims like apartheid, and quacks like apartheid, then it probably is apartheid. Albeit less brazen. I could say that you're whitewashing by not considering it that way.

There's plenty of non anti-semitic criticism of Israel. Just take a look at the fascist PM calling people "wild animals."

[Pannonian]

If it looks like apartheid, swims like apartheid, and quacks like apartheid, then it probably is apartheid. Albeit less brazen. I could say that you're whitewashing by not considering it that way.

There's plenty of non anti-semitic criticism of Israel. Just take a look at the fascist PM calling people "wild animals."

If it looks like barbarism, swims like barbarism, and quacks like barbarism, then it probably is barbarism. And it's quite brazen about it too. Welcome to the middle east experience, where the Israeli section is less unpleasant than all the other bits. Not pleasant by any stretch of the imagination, but the Muslim bits range from slightly worse, in a few of them, to considerably worse, in most of them. Probably best to skip this theme park altogether.

[Gilrandir]

Not as far as I know, experts on weapon-systems at least, older models supposedly leave differerent exit-damage, and it looks like itwas shot from behind. Seems logical to me as it was exit-damage, not frontal.

AFAIK, it was the cockpit that was hit.

[Fragony]

AFAIK, it was the cockpit that was hit.

We will never know, I am not angry about all this, mistakes happen

[Kralizec]

AFAIK, it was the cockpit that was hit.

We will never know, I am not angry about all this, mistakes happen

The damage to the fuselage is entirely consistent with a Surface-to-Air missile (i.e. a BUK) exploding near the front of the plane, and shredding the cockpit with shrapnel. This isn't my opinion, but the opinion of trained experts who have spent a lot of time on this. And yes, there are "experts" on the Russian side who dispute these findings, who have suggested a million different theories about how Ukraine is responsible. Putin is a fascist, and I don't take any of his apologists seriously.

[Fragony]

The damage to the fuselage is entirely consistent with a Surface-to-Air missile (i.e. a BUK) exploding near the front of the plane, and shredding the cockpit with shrapnel. This isn't my opinion, but the opinion of trained experts who have spent a lot of time on this. And yes, there are "experts" on the Russian side who dispute these findings, who have suggested a million different theories about how Ukraine is responsible. Putin is a fascist, and I don't take any of his apologists seriously.

You shouldn't. We wil never know it's obviously much bigger than the cassier who didn't give me enough change. I don't think anyone actually wants to know how all this came to be. Things can often be as simple as people doing something stupid, or really smart