Israel Thread

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Idaho:

The Israelis -- particularly their hardliners -- who you decry in these posts (and have decried before), already view themselves as being -- functionally -- pariahs to the larger international community.

They are not likely to give a rat's patoot about public opinion outside Israel and thus have little motivation to do anything aside from that which furthers their control over Israeli terrain (which they certainly define more broadly than the 1947 borders and probably more than the 1968 borders). So you are not going to sway them.

And the rest of the West is unlikely to actively oppose Israel any more than they already do. So....

[Idaho]

Actively oppose? Actively support usually. Vigorously in the case of the US.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Well, the USA does throw a fair amount of money their way, and we are pretty passive regarding other actions Israel takes that we officially oppose.

I had not thought that Europe was all that supportive of Israel at all though? Things not getting reported on that issue over here that I should know?

[Idaho]

Israel and its lobbyists do constantly say how Europe is against them, etc. This is because while European countries have normal political and economic relationships, they do sometimes say things like "can you.. Er.. Like stop ethnically cleansing the Palestinians from land you are illegally occupying?"

[Gilrandir]

IThis is because while European countries have normal political and economic relationships

European countries don't a a beehive for a neighbor.

[rory_20_uk]

Israel and its lobbyists do constantly say how Europe is against them, etc. This is because while European countries have normal political and economic relationships, they do sometimes say things like "can you.. Er.. Like stop ethnically cleansing the Palestinians from land you are illegally occupying?"

Even the BBC mentions the building with the statement "illegal under international law, although Israel disputes this". Funnily enough we don't get that caveat when it is North Korea building nukes or Russia invading the Ukraine.

[Idaho]

I have heard the BBC refer to both as being in contrivance of international law.

It seems that Israel and those who choose to support its actions are able to see the Palestinians as being less than full humans. That they don't need or deserve self determination, citizenship, property rights, political freedom, freedom of movement, freedom from arbitrary arrest. That it is not only possible, but entirely acceptable to discount their demands for these by picking on selected examples from history or of the actions of other states or political groups.

So Rory, is Israel occupying the west Bank, or is it Israeli territory? If the latter, why are those people living there not made citizens of this new state?

[Idaho]

Testimonial from soldier who operated in the West Bank. Taken by the group Breaking the Silence - which the Israeli government are trying to suppress.

“All the mattresses on one side, the carpet turned over, half the tiles are messed up, because maybe there's something under them. If they’re loose we take them out, we lift them. We hit the walls, make holes in them to see if maybe inside some wall where there’s a piece of plaster. That's what we did to it there. We drilled, and then used a hammer. We took out a wall, there's nothing there. What a bummer. Now there’s a whole lot of dirt in the room, and there’s no wall. A table and stuff, a computer – you look inside the computer. A teddy-bear, a fucking teddy-bear, you open its head and take the cotton wool out, maybe there's a gun there, who knows.
Was there a gun?
No.”
[First Sergeant, Nahal, 50th Battalion, Nablus area, 2012]

Read the full testimony >> http://www.breakingthesilence.org.il...atabase/379784