Israel Thread

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Hamas has been the last resort for the populace as peaceful resistance doesn't fly in "democratic" Israel. It's a last line of defense with actual power.

The reason Pannonian's argument doesn't work is because Palestine is almost entirely dependent upon the infrastructure Israel provides, which exacerbates the problem. While there has been international funding for the Palestinians to create their own desalination networks, revitalize their housing projects, and promote civil society, the money tends to be funneled into paramilitary operations and preparing the state for war with Israel due to the state of apartheid. This makes Israel both jailkeeper and primary care giver for the Palestinians after Jordan threw their hands up at the situation.

I have always thought the "two country" solution so bandied about to be a mirage. There isn't enough space for two nations in that small strip of land. Water resources etc. mitigate against any useful division into two states.

I don't think this does anything but continue as is until one or the other pushes the second party out. All very sad, especially for the resource-poor Palestinian Arabs.

[Idaho]

The Arab Israeli wars would have been a bit of a no score draw, but for Israel being swiftly resupplied with lots of good kit from the US. So rather than be forced to broker a compromise with equally exhausted foes, it's been able to plough on with whatever it likes. It's opponents weakened, outmaneuvered, divided and dispirited.

In the end that means people, families and communities who were just getting through life, being apart of someone's war.

[Gilrandir]

The Arab Israeli wars would have been a bit of a no score draw, but for Israel being swiftly resupplied with lots of good kit from the US.

The same can be said of Arabs and the USSR.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

The same can be said of Arabs and the USSR.

Yes and no. The USSR, with rare exceptions, only sold them the dumbed-down versions of its various weapons platforms. Moreover, they sold them and did not grant much foreign aid as did the USA.

I don't think that Idaho is acknowledging the other factor at play in those conflicts, however. US military folk suggest that the problem is partly cultural in that Arabs appear to be brave and effective warriors but to make lousy soldiers. Too few of their formed units had the combat staying power of a typical Israeli formation.

[Gilrandir]

Yes and no. The USSR, with rare exceptions, only sold them the dumbed-down versions of its various weapons platforms. Moreover, they sold them and did not grant much foreign aid as did the USA.

Soviet pilots as well as other military specialists trained Arabs to use weaponry and even participated in actual fighting.

[Idaho]

I don't think that Idaho is acknowledging the other factor at play in those conflicts, however. US military folk suggest that the problem is partly cultural in that Arabs appear to be brave and effective warriors but to make lousy soldiers. Too few of their formed units had the combat staying power of a typical Israeli formation.

These kinds of explanations are pretty ridiculous in my opinion. Humans are pretty similar, especially in large groups and in extreme situations. Organisation methods and technology are the parameters at play. Culture is a poor explanation.

[Idaho]

A good overview of how the Israeli government is removing political opposition. All opposition is terrorism. The leaders of the current prisoner hunger strike are getting the full smear treatment.

In a blatant attempt at distortion and misdirection, Israel claims that they “are all terrorists,'' all 6,500 prisoners including 300 children, 56 women, 13 parliamentarians, 28 journalists and the 500 administrative detainees held without charge or trial for indefinite periods of time, the worst form of arbitrary detention.

It claims all 800,000 Palestinian prisoners it has arrested since 1967 are ''terrorists'', the equivalent of 40% of our male population in the Occupied Palestinian Territory. And certainly, all the Palestinian people are ''terrorists'' by virtue of their identity.

http://www.newsweek.com/marwan-bargh...artheid-591021

[Seamus Fermanagh]

These kinds of explanations are pretty ridiculous in my opinion. Humans are pretty similar, especially in large groups and in extreme situations. Organisation methods and technology are the parameters at play. Culture is a poor explanation.

You and I disagree fairly thoroughly then on the impact of culture in these situations.

[AE Bravo]

What are the cultural traits you think are responsible then?

[Idaho]

You and I disagree fairly thoroughly then on the impact of culture in these situations.

I suppose this is a natural way of thinking for white Americans. It is the mental approach they have had to the black underclass for many generations.

[Pannonian]

These kinds of explanations are pretty ridiculous in my opinion. Humans are pretty similar, especially in large groups and in extreme situations. Organisation methods and technology are the parameters at play. Culture is a poor explanation.

The west is based on a Christianity that has largely secularised itself over the last few centuries. The middle east is tending towards an Islam that harks back to the middle ages. Not quite in the middle east, but certainly a good example of this, see Pakistan.