Israel Thread

[Montmorency]

greater Palestine is the only thing the regional powers unanimously agree on.

That's rather naive, on top of missing Egypt.

[Strike For The South]

How is it an inevitability? I'm genuinely curious.

Any serious threat to the core of the Isreali state will result in a nuclear retaliation from submarines.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

How is it an inevitability? I'm genuinely curious.

Any serious threat to the core of the Isreali state will result in a nuclear retaliation from submarines.

But they have a fairly small arsenal according to best guesses. Even if though go counter value the Israelis cannot reverse the numbers game entirely.

[Strike For The South]

But they have a fairly small arsenal according to best guesses. Even if though go counter value the Israelis cannot reverse the numbers game entirely.

A fairly small arsenal that would cripple Iran and kill millions of innocent civilians. A pretty high price to pay to get rid of the regions whipping boy.

[Montmorency]

The United States, Europe, Russia, China, and the regional Muslim powers unanimously agree on what they want from "Greater Palestine", namely that this piece of land not be under the control of any of the other parties.

[Strike For The South]

The United States, Europe, Russia, China, and the regional Muslim powers unanimously agree on what they want from "Greater Palestine", namely that this piece of land not be under the control of any of the other parties.

Except both governments are very heavily invested by all of those? Im not sure I understand

[Montmorency]

Except both governments are very heavily invested by all of those? Im not sure I understand

Europe and the US don't control Israel, but they provide financial and political support because it is a useful foothold in West Asia, at least on par with Turkish NATO membership which was altogether oriented toward blocking the Russian navy at the straits and the army at the mountains. They don't have much reason to be antagonistic toward Israel when there are clear advantages to maintaining its existence. For the Muslim neighbors of Israel, Israel is the chief 'neutral' power separating Turkey, Egypt, and Saudi Arabia by land and averting Iranian control down to the Sinai. It's an essential buffer, geographically and politically, for all parties - as it was in ancient times. In the modern day an Arab Palestine wouldn't need to be directly administered by an imperial power, but it would still fall under the umbrella of one of the major powers as opposed to the others, and so a proximate cause of conflict between them.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

A fairly small arsenal that would cripple Iran and kill millions of innocent civilians. A pretty high price to pay to get rid of the regions whipping boy.

A fair counterpoint that.

[Montmorency]

[AE Bravo]

A fairly small arsenal that would cripple Iran and kill millions of innocent civilians. A pretty high price to pay to get rid of the regions whipping boy.

Iran's aim is to dismantle Israel, not engage. They have never initiated a war, unlike Israel's preemtive striking tendencies. I remember an Iranian foreign minister once saying that their foreign policy was like weaving a Persian carpet, in that they'll delicately envelope the region like they are now with the Revolutionary Guard's paramilitary lackeys spread across the Levant.

Those demographics aren't favorable for Palestinians though - just unfavorable for Israelis.

Palestinians would eventually outnumber them. This would be the unmaking of a Zionist Israel in a Greater Israel scenario.

[Fragony]

Numbers don't matter if you are your own worst enemy

[AE Bravo]

Only in your own world they're the only people who are their own worst enemy.

You don't have the ability to apply it to yourself, so don't preach what you don't practice.

[Strike For The South]

Iran's aim is to dismantle Israel, not engage. They have never initiated a war, unlike Israel's preemtive striking tendencies. I remember an Iranian foreign minister once saying that their foreign policy was like weaving a Persian carpet, in that they'll delicately envelope the region like they are now with the Revolutionary Guard's paramilitary lackeys spread across the Levant.
.

Certainly a smarter strategy.

[Idaho]

This is the sad, bureaucratic reality of ethnic cleansing:

Fawaqa told Ma’an that forces raided his house without prior notice, and began emptying and evacuating the house in preparation for demolition. Authorities told Fawaqa that his home would be destroyed for lacking nearly impossible to obtain construction permits.
According to Fawaqa, he had been trying to obtain licenses for his house since he built it six years ago, but no no avail, pointing out that had paid more than 200,000 shekels ($55,403) in lawyers fees over the years.

http://maannews.com/Content.aspx?id=776867


So Palestinians can't get permits for reasonable construction of houses, while militant settlers get permission to displace whole communities and build new towns.

[AE Bravo]

That's rather naive, on top of missing Egypt.

Why not? Always has been the best thing a state could champion for grandstanding. It’s more likely than a two-state solution, which is a fantasy given the facts on the ground and the map not being close to meeting what the Palestinians need thanks to the illegal expansion of settlements. Doubling down on mass thievery rendered that plan useless.

It’s either gonna be one-state solution (interstate freedom of movement + labor) at best, or one side wiping out the other at worst. Israel will not be able to do the latter. It’s political suicide. The problem with binationalism gives legitimacy to Zionism and it will have its domestic opposition, unlike the full-on Palestine solution. In a conflict of this nature, that factor will ensure success in the long term. Even if the Zionist project goes the squarely apartheid route, they will be outlasted by demographics alone.

[Montmorency]

Always has been the best thing a state could champion for grandstanding.

So lip service is useful. A dedicated war economy and at least tens of thousands of dead over months or years is less palatable, much less a coherent interstate alliance in service of that end (which will then collapse on itself once the mission is accomplished).

Someone out there always has an appetite for continuous civil war - this can't translate to offensive conventional war due to the scale of organization required.

Israel will not be able to do the latter. It’s political suicide.

They will if it turns out to be the path of least resistance among the others.

Even if the Zionist project goes the squarely apartheid route, they will be outlasted by demographics alone.

Those demographics aren't favorable for Palestinians though - just unfavorable for Israelis.