Turkey Thread

[Husar]

That’s something I’m sure everyone can agree on, but it’s not what this is about. Turkey is being driven away and it naturally reverts to its own values to ensure its own security. Saying Turkey should reform one way or another isn't realistic. There’s not enough trust from both sides to outright commit to sudden reforms, Turkey has to ease in and have incremental shifts.

Diplomatic shortcomings from both sides. You’re not acknowledging that it’s a vicious circle.

If demanding someone not to torture prisoners is driving them away, then I'll happily drive them away.
Cry me a river if you don't like that, maybe we can compare it to the rivers the torture victims are crying.

Whining? I'm replying, and it's only my second(?) post in this thread. When did you become so thin skinned?

Your first post seemed very much like a complaint and I may have exaggerated a bit.

I don't argue that Turkey is going in the wrong direction, I merely submit that europe is in part responsible for this change in direction as a result of europe not wanting a non 'european' nation inside the tent.

I repeat, they did not take this attitude to bosnia.

It's not Bosnia's fault that it is more European than Turkey. I also never complained that we are not in NAFTA despite our near spotless record of cooperation with the US since WW2. If it is so easy to annoy Turkey and make it go off into a more islamistic direction then it just proves the point that Turkey doesn't belong into the EU.
Saying that Europe is in part responsible may be true, but the state of Turkey is responsible to a far larger degree given how fast it turned away once it didn't get what it wanted. That's childish and dangerous behavior of the kind we shouldn't let into the EU. You could also turn it around an d say Turkey is blackmailing the EU by saying it will either get in or turn into an islamist dictatorship. Blackmailing countries like that should also not be in the EU. I haven't heard about Bosnians electing an islamist wannabe dictator to spite the EU. But even then, Bosnia is much smaller and easier to influence should it take a wrong turn, influencing Turkey once it joins would seem much harder, especially with such a temper...
It has to show that it fits into the EU before it joins and not afterwards. Most EU politicians seem to think just the same.

Technically. Yet both consist of almost the same countries (Norway is in NATO, but not in the EU, and some others -vice versa). Thus values of both neatly match.

NATO is built on the value of how much does someone hate Russia, NATO countries also have military alliances or dealings with Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Singapore, etc. Would you say that means these countries also share values with the EU and should be considered as members?
Shouldn't be so hard to see the difference between a nation being a "valuable" military ally and it sharing the same democratic and liberal values. That you mention Norway as an example is actually hilarious, don't tell me you'd compare it to Turkey in terms of democratic values.

The British also have a wrongly-placed steering wheel in their cars... Wait, they do have to Brexit and join Japan or something.

If the Brexits leave, we can finally enforce driving on the right side across the EU, so they can't get in again until they adapt to our values.