Brexit Thread

[Lizardo]

Explain to me ho i am impeding Beskars Free speeach?

[Pannonian]

Explain to me ho i am impeding Beskars Free speeach?

I think your poor communication skills in the English language is impeding understanding what the heck it is that you're going on about. Hence my enquiry as to whether English is your native language.

[Lizardo]

I rest case

[Pannonian]

I rest case

Whether or not you're for free speech, you're certainly not for comprehensible speeach (sic).

[Lizardo]

its free speech i can speaka english howver i fish Haha i play with you. English is my first language but i'm being lazy. actually its parkinsons and tourrETEs combined thatadsgf hl'''',gfdhss mdaskw mew SSPEECH THIS WAY

[Husar]

Terrible, who would believe Breitbart, a US conservative news network, on European matters?

The only thing important to them is the US and if they think they can get an advantage through divide and conquer, they would immediately do that, and probably are doing it. I could also cite US laws to show what a restrictive dictatorship it is. I mean you can even get fined for littering there, why don't you have the freedom to poison everyone around you with plastic waste because it seems so harmless to just drop something? Arrests for jaywalking? What happened to your freedom to cross a street in the Breitbart dictatorship?

And since you meantion Britain Lizardo, eh, what? Is Britain turning into a dictatorship even without the help of the EU? It already has zones where protesting is banned, widespread surveillance including a government that stores all of your, and my, internet communication. Explain to me what gives your government the right to store my internet communication when I'm not a citizen of the UK? When did I ever get to vote on that??? These are unelected bureaucrats sniffing around in my personal life and I never got a say or an option to stop this? Again, what democratic process can I use to make this stop? You say it's not opkay if people in Brussels influence your life? Well, is it okay then if people in London influence mine?

[Lizardo]

Beskar what do you see the need for the EU and what you like to become of the EU?

And also In your eyes if you could reform what would you do?

I personally do not see a need for a political organisation encompassing Europe, each country and it's people have their own agenda, GDP, wealth, working hours (Spain and the Siesta), culture, industry the list goes on. You can not bring about a european wide minimum wage it may well cripple economies and the imports and exports, for instance the Euro currency has decimated spain the cost of living was great in Spain with the peseta now it'ts shot up with the Euro, the Eu can only work with similar countries and industries thats why you've only seen France,Germany,Britain as the powerhouses and the nordic countries and Italy cling on, but with spain portugal and eastern europe its caused a massive brain drain only benefitting the powerhouses as i mentioned. And bullying greece and portugal also spain into submission via the Troika can not justified. ALso making all european nations produce goods of equal or better quality will not benefit the poorer EU nations people.

"We could vote out of the EU, citing NAFTA, when Britain is American's lapdog and will sign the dotted line as soon as we leave anyway, with no discussion or debate. At least the EU challenged the treaty and kept pushing for amendments, which it is why it is taking so long, opposed to being signed in 2012. Thing is, Europe has protected Britain from itself. There is a distinct fear that the supposed "freedom" will led to some very significant disasters in policies."


This not a given this is speculation, Iceland and Switzerland are not America's lapdog, well maybe considering Swiss cooperation with the FIFA scandal, I agree in some respects EU has protected us from awful Trade Deals. but the EU has also prevented us from good ones with emerging economies. EU sanctions of Russia have not been welcomed by the populace. The only mtrade deal in the world that stipulates freedom of movement of people isEUWWRONDGS

Jesting aside, hope is necessary in every day living. It is the enthusiasm which makes us get up each morning, and actually try to make something out of life. In a way, you are a believer of hope Lizardo. You come in threads like these, and you attempt to inform us in your special way, hoping we are convinced and swayed by your arguments, trying to make a difference in the world.

Very true lol.

Side-Note:

This was brought up by someone voting out -

I now approve Beskar as moderator

Tge eurozone is going to tank beginning with france mark my words

[Lizardo]

Terrible, who would believe Breitbart, a US conservative news network, on European matters?

The only thing important to them is the US and if they think they can get an advantage through divide and conquer, they would immediately do that, and probably are doing it. I could also cite US laws to show what a restrictive dictatorship it is. I mean you can even get fined for littering there, why don't you have the freedom to poison everyone around you with plastic waste because it seems so harmless to just drop something? Arrests for jaywalking? What happened to your freedom to cross a street in the Breitbart dictatorship?

And since you meantion Britain Lizardo, eh, what? Is Britain turning into a dictatorship even without the help of the EU? It already has zones where protesting is banned, widespread surveillance including a government that stores all of your, and my, internet communication. Explain to me what gives your government the right to store my internet communication when I'm not a citizen of the UK? When did I ever get to vote on that??? These are unelected bureaucrats sniffing around in my personal life and I never got a say or an option to stop this? Again, what democratic process can I use to make this stop? You say it's not opkay if people in Brussels influence your life? Well, is it okay then if people in London influence mine?

And you think The EU commisison will make all this better?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fj64KQYS4ro

[Beskar]

I am clearly known for my totalitarian censorship of pro-speech. Today, I permanently banned two members, one for writing he could provide plumbing services in Pakistan for a reasonable price, and the other apparently knew of some "hot kinky ladies" in my local area which were apparently waiting for "me".

Jesting aside, hope is necessary in every day living. It is the enthusiasm which makes us get up each morning, and actually try to make something out of life. In a way, you are a believer of hope Lizardo. You come in threads like these, and you attempt to inform us in your special way, hoping we are convinced and swayed by your arguments, trying to make a difference in the world.

Will the EU reform? The fact is, the desire for reform needs political capital. People who are on the gravy train do not want to rock the boat, unless they need to. There are many factors against EU reform, and ultimately, the biggest one is also its biggest critic. Nationalism.

The EU is a construct which is intended to be a partnership between countries towards achieving several important and reaching political and economical goals. It is this construct and framework of unity which can bring about these changes more effectively and more adequately. But the thing is with partnerships, and teams, is that not everyone is equal. This is fundamentally a good thing, as diversity, the adoption of different roles by the partners, can make things work more effective (see Belbin). However, a big hurdle to this co-operation is national interest.

One criticism, as you mentioned yourself, are the EU commision. But what is the commission and who are these evil unelected commissioners.
Who appoints these commissioners?: It is the nations themselves of course. So the UK has a commissioner, so does France, so does Germany... all 28 members in fact.
What do they do?: They represent the national interest of the individual member states within the European Union.
What happens if we get rid of them?: National governments will have a decreased say in how the EU is run.
Why aren't they elected?: They could be, but our governments choose not to.
Why?: Because the government wants increased control of the affairs of the EU. This is part of why Cameron and Merkel meet up for coffee, to discuss their EU ambitions and plans.

Now, as you commented Lizardo. You want countries to leave the evil EU, because of National Interest. Citing the institutions built for National Interest as the reason for leaving. But if you had to stay and increase your National Interest in the EU, you would empower the commissioners.

It is this oxymoronic, paradoxical, self-fulfilling arrangement, where there is a distinct element of people who want to promote national interest within and out the EU.

Want to know what the solution is to this? It is Fragony's favourite cited phrase. "Ever closer union". By becoming closer, the EU would disband and eliminate the commission, then it could give rise to an EU with a democratic mandate and supported by the European people.

Furunculus said it once on here: "I dislike the EU, as it is not democratic. But I do not want to become democratic, as it would then have a democratic mandate which represents us, thus we cannot leave." It is a nationalist leaning rhetoric where the biggest barriers to democratic reform are those who with national interests, and it is the same people who criticise the EU for not reforming, whilst they are the barrier which prevents it.

The European Union needs reform, there is no doubt about it. I can start listing them off. Want to hear a couple?
European-wide minimum wage. Fix the disparity in Europe, bring about fair compensation for peoples work. This would prevent internal migration of people, because either in the West or the East, doing Job A will get you Pay A, instead of the mismatch system.
Increase of Democracy within the EU system, and increased powers for a reformed European Parliament. An elected European President. Because Democratic mandate is important and should not be forgotten.
Increased accountability. Obvious reasons.

Of course, being sensible is a lost art.

We could vote out of the EU, citing NAFTA, when Britain is American's lapdog and will sign the dotted line as soon as we leave anyway, with no discussion or debate. At least the EU challenged the treaty and kept pushing for amendments, which it is why it is taking so long, opposed to being signed in 2012. Thing is, Europe has protected Britain from itself. There is a distinct fear that the supposed "freedom" will led to some very significant disasters in policies.


Side-Note:
This was brought up by someone voting out -
"We are not a proper partnership anyway, if we were, and if we looked out for eachother. We would go in and save Greece, eliminating their loans and help rebuild the country."
Later on -
"I don't care about the other european nations, we won't want to give them any money or bail them out"

So... doomed if you do, doomed if you don't? Rational.