Brexit Thread

[Elmetiacos]

Remainiacs, the gift that just keeps on giving.
After the 'emergency' budget was trashed this morning we have 'St' Bob Geldof sticking two fingers up to working class fishermen worried about their jobs and calls 'em wankers.
Keep it up lads. A multi-millionaire shitting on the little people.

Quoting from Chairman Farrage's Little Red Book... we all know what a class warrior Farrage is don't we, and how much he's always hated the millionaires and stood up for his fellow workers, just like the rest of that bastion of true Socialism, UKIP. The Brexiteers would be taking Orwellian doublethink to new heights - except of course, that we know they don't mean half of it. Sir Bob pointed out that despite being on the EU Fisheries Committee, Farrage attended one out of 43 of its meetings.

[Furunculus]

Quoting from Chairman Farrage's Little Red Book... we all know what a class warrior Farrage is don't we, and how much he's always hated the millionaires and stood up for his fellow workers, just like the rest of that bastion of true Socialism, UKIP. The Brexiteers would be taking Orwellian doublethink to new heights - except of course, that we know they don't mean half of it. Sir Bob pointed out that despite being on the EU Fisheries Committee, Farrage attended one out of 43 of its meetings.

not all of us brexiteers are ukip people, or, think very highly of nigel's tactics. ;)

[InsaneApache]

Socialists are mentally ill.

[Husar]

Socialists are mentally ill.

It's just depressing to see you write such unfounded, offensive blanket statements...

[Slyspy]

Socialists are mentally ill.

Good work mate, good work.

[Gilrandir]

...dude, go look up how many times we have fought the french, we've done it a lot, even after the 1707 act of union. Scratch that, especially after the 1707 act of union.

The Auld alliance ended in the 1500's.

Dude, I'm aware of at least some of those wars. But you said that the Scots had a special cordiality towards the English when Britain went to war with the French. That was the statement that I doubted. It was certainly wrong in respect of pre-1707 wars. And I wonder what was the Scots participation in post-1707 wars and what was the popular feeling in Scotland when the British crown started a war with their long-time (although not current) allies. I'm sure it was far from unanimous in support of the English.

That would be if you consider the EU as a pact intended to create a federal government, when we joined it was with the understanding it was a free trade agreement and nothing more and with that context it becomes clear that we have been imposed upon incessantly.

Unions may evolve. The rules of evolution are to be discussed along the way. You should have put your foot down when it was being introduced. And you have lived with those changes for quite a time without any apparent (to an outsider) catastrophe. Now when Cameron has wheedled out significant preferences, I see no reason for raising hue and cry.

[Beskar]

Socialists are mentally ill.

I recommend reading the following website, because such a comment is disappointing.
http://www.time-to-change.org.uk/men...lth-and-stigma

Especially for someone who identifies their issues and heritage by the moniker: InsaneApache.

[a completely inoffensive name]

[Greyblades]

The retort to scientists worrying over budget:

[Greyblades]

Significant preferences that may as well be piss in the wind, the trust to give those promises meaning is long gone both with brussels. The EU is constantly pushing for more integration and has a disregard for the decisions of the member states as shown with the first Irish referendum on the lisbon treaty. With a combined attitude of "this time they'll do it" in the EU and a general trend among our politicians to not consult the electorate when signing the country to integratory agreements, we cannot trust that the promises will be upheld by either side for very long.

Yes, that is correct. France, the Netherlands and several other countries postponed the free movement of those "new EU workers" for several years, which was allowed at the time under EU law. Britain voluntarily decided against these measures and instantly became the favourite destination.
Since that happened during Tony Blair's run as Prime Minister and seeing as how he is widely disliked nowadays, this is of course no obstacle for Brexiteers to blame Brussels for everything.

Some people also need to educate themselves on the difference between a Visum and the ability to migrate somewhere...and the fact that for the UK it doesn't matter one toss to whom the EU offers a visum, because it's only valid for the Schengen area.

Not being part of the schingen area means we can still check people's passports when they try to enter the country. It does not change the fact that being part of the Eu means we cannot refuse EU citizens from immigrating here.

Some people need to educate themselves on the difference beteen border controls and immigration controls and also need to an attitude adjustment.

That's what I thought, that the we'd opted out of the free movement rule, that any such free movement was decided by the Downing Street government rather than by Brussels. But as Greyblades explained in an earlier post, his intention is to stick it to all politicians by means of Brexit, so it doesn't matter whether something Brexiters dislike is decided by Brussels or Downing Street; everything that is bad is blamed on membership of the EU.

I am sure it is comforting to reassure yourself that your side is sane and their side isnt but it is quite ugly to witness..

I do not like the EU, I do not like politicians who consider it more important than thier own country's well being and self determination, I consider makng those politicians panic a bonus but it most certainly is not my main goal. An anticipation of well deserved schadenfreude does not automatically make me an ill informed idiot blaming the EU for all my problems at the behest of another politician and your assumption is frankly depressing to witness in a fellow countryman.

I have made it clear multiple times I blame our problems on our own politicians as well as the EU so it is somewhat idiotic for you to claim otherwise. Thier time will come in 2020, 2025, 2030 and on and on but the EU can only be dealt with here and now.

[Gilrandir]

a general trend among our politicians to not consult the electorate when signing the country to integratory agreements

When you vote for some politicians you impart them with the authority to decide the course of the country. They don't have to ask you for permission on any issue which is within their responsibility. If you don't like decisions they adopt, vote them out next time.

[Kralizec]

Not being part of the schingen area means we can still check people's passports when they try to enter the country. It does not change the fact that being part of the Eu means we cannot refuse EU citizens from immigrating here.

Some people need to educate themselves on the difference beteen border controls and immigration controls and also need to an attitude adjustmen.

Seems I misread part of your statements, my mistake. A lot of people on the interwebs that talk about it in the context of Brexit discussions have no idea what it actually means. Turkey isn't going to become a member state anytime soon. Even if Erdogan leaves tomorrow and Turkey becomes a paradise with rainbows and fluffy unicorns overnight, which is unlikely, it could still easily take 6-8 years before their entry for the plain reason that it's a lengthy process.

As for the current wave of asylum seekers that has reached the EU...even if the majority of those people get residence permits, they will not have unqualified freedom of movement in the EU since they are not yet EU citizens. That would take many more years, for instance in the Netherlands you have to be legally resident for 5 years before you can naturalize. And the idea that those migrants will hop over to the UK en masse a soon as they're able is just fantasy, plain and simple.

As for the current batch of workers that have already migrated to the UK:

1) all the data shows that EU migrants contribute more in taxes than they receive, and are actually more often employed than natives
2) I don't see that there's a problem at all...but even so, British politicians are to blame for the scale of the "problem", not the EU
3) it's hardly fair to demand that the EU gives up one of its core achievements (freedom of movement) to counter the consequenses of British failures in policy