Brexit Thread

[InsaneApache]

How has it been discredited?
We keep getting more and more poor people and social issues, we almost have to shoot even poorer people to keep them from trying to come here while others try to blow us up because they hate us, when will Capitalism solve that?
Your own country wants out of the EU because the EU is too capitalist and doesn't care about the fishermen, no?

Let's see.

USSR.

Cambodia.

North Korea.

Argentina.

Venezuela.

Etc.

Perhaps you can point to a socialist country that has prospered?

Oh and capitalism has lifted more people out of poverty these last thirty years then any other system.

[Beskar]

Perhaps you can point to a socialist country that has prospered?

Norway?

Depends on what you call 'socialist' too. The faux-communist countries you listed are not socialist, but there are great many examples of democratic socialism in Europe such as Scandinavian countries and even post war Britain.

Also there is an issue on what you call 'capitalist' too. Since there is the corrupt hypercapitalism in places like the USA where corporates buy the government.

[CupHead5998]

@Beskar
Adolf Hitler was a nationalist SOCIALIST.
Jus saying he was pretty successful.
Now that's not to say that he was to bad
you know what i'm not gonna continue with this post it'll get me banned
probably.

[Beskar]

Adolf Hitler was a nationalist SOCIALIST.
Jus saying he was pretty successful.
Now that's not to say that he was to bad
you know what i'm not gonna continue with this post it'll get me banned
probably.

I have to be honest, only ignorance on the subject would be responsible for a retort like that. I will show you something.

Do you know North Korea full title is "Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea" - now is North Korea democratic? No it isn't. Is North Korea a republic? No, they have a monarchy. The United States, a nation built on democracy and it is a republic, are they the same as North Korea because North Korea's name? That is what you're currently arguing.

Hitler hated socialism. He was foremost a Nationalist. When he came into power, first things he did was ban the socialists from government, and sent them off to prison camps, and later exterminated them. He saw himself as an antithesis to socialism and capitalism, the "third way", and created a totalitarian regime. The reason for the name was because after WW1, there are effectively two camps, the socialists and the nationalists. His party was an 'experiment' in trying to unite two opposing factions under his banner.

On a side note: "i won't give away who I am voting for in presidental election as he is quite controversial" .. there is only 1 male candidate, Donald Trump.

[CupHead5998]

I have to be honest, only ignorance on the subject would be responsible for a retort like that. I will show you something.

Do you know North Korea full title is "Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea" - now is North Korea democratic? No it isn't. Is North Korea a republic? No, they have a monarchy. The United States, a nation built on democracy and it is a republic, are they the same as North Korea because North Korea's name? That is what you're currently arguing.

Hitler hated socialism. He was foremost a Nationalist. When he came into power, first things he did was ban the socialists from government, and sent them off to prison camps, and later exterminated them. He saw himself as an antithesis to socialism and capitalism, the "third way", and created a totalitarian regime. The reason for the name was because after WW1, there are effectively two camps, the socialists and the nationalists. His party was an 'experiment' in trying to unite two opposing factions under his banner.

On a side note: "i won't give away who I am voting for in presidental election as he is quite controversial" .. there is only 1 male candidate, Donald Trump.

Hmph Bested me there. However there was a faction running with Hitler that did interpret Socialist part of the message as literal Marxist socialism though, i think his name was Otto if i can recall correctly.
also Hey you guessed right.
didn't mean to come off angry if that's what my post relayed.

[CrossLOPER]

ignorance on the subject

I have to be honest, that is an extremely tame way of putting it.

[Beskar]

I have to be honest, that is an extremely tame way of putting it.

It is however, unlike you stated by altering the quote, not displaying ignorance on the subject.

Unlike many, who either flock to 'remain' or 'leave', then demonize the otherside, I have criticized both. I find the decision to be difficult due to conflicting personal views. I have also read a lot on the subject. So trying to dismiss one of the least ignorant people on the subject as "ignorant" only reflects poorly on yourself.

[Husar]

Perhaps you can point to a socialist country that has prospered?

Germany, Britain, Norway, Netherlands.

And since you mentioned Argentina, that one was ruined again by a capitalist. Are capitalists proud of kicking people who already lie on the ground?
I still think that a capitalism that is heavily restricted by socialism is probably best until we find and try a system that works better than both, but I guess the world just has to be black and white...

Oh and capitalism has lifted more people out of poverty these last thirty years then any other system.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Povert...ed_States..PNG

That was in the 50s and 60s, since then, not so much.

[InsaneApache]

Also there is an issue on what you call 'capitalist' too. Since there is the corrupt hypercapitalism in places like the USA where corporates buy the government.

There's world of difference between 'crony capitalism i.e corporatism and real capitalism.

And since you mentioned Argentina, that one was ruined again by a capitalist

Argentina was at the beginning of the 20th century the equal of the USA in GDP. A few decades of socialist policies soon put an end to that caper.

Are capitalists proud of kicking people who already lie on the ground?

Yes I kick puppys too.

[Husar]

There's world of difference between 'crony capitalism i.e corporatism and real capitalism.

You mean just like there is a world of difference between a socialist in Germany or Britain and the leaders of the communist dictatorships that you mentioned as failures of socialism?

Argentina was at the beginning of the 20th century the equal of the USA in GDP. A few decades of socialist policies soon put an end to that caper.

And then a capitalist came along and socialized his losses to bring the country to its knees once more. Maybe there is a socialist even in the biggest capitalists, just wait until they end up on a losing streak in the big lottery of capitalism and/or see an opportunity to socialize their losses. It's easy to say socialism failed due to the way humans are, but then I'd argue that capitalism devolves into corporatism all the time for the same reasons.

Yes I kick puppys too.

*puppies

[Beskar]

There's world of difference between 'crony capitalism i.e corporatism and real capitalism.

You mean just like there is a world of difference between a socialist in Germany or Britain and the leaders of the communist dictatorships that you mentioned as failures of socialism?

I think this is exactly the point. We could point at extreme examples, then tar everyone with the same brush.
Does InsaneApache as a capitalist want to sell off his mother? Does Husar who believes that people should have a fair wage, want to send people off to gulags? The answer to both of these are no (I hope) and would be silly to suggest otherwise.

[Pannonian]

You mean just like there is a world of difference between a socialist in Germany or Britain and the leaders of the communist dictatorships that you mentioned as failures of socialism?

And then a capitalist came along and socialized his losses to bring the country to its knees once more. Maybe there is a socialist even in the biggest capitalists, just wait until they end up on a losing streak in the big lottery of capitalism and/or see an opportunity to socialize their losses. It's easy to say socialism failed due to the way humans are, but then I'd argue that capitalism devolves into corporatism all the time for the same reasons.

*puppies

The socialist theorist that I admire most is George Orwell. That's someone who formed his ideas by attempting to live the lives of the oppressed, analysing their position in relation to those who are in power, and coming up with ideas to improve lives. And not ducking any difficult questions that arise from factional politics. His socialism is non-factional, but grimy with sweat.

[Lizardo]

Wow you're really into that non existent oppression malarkey aren't you, I don't think you can conjure up the homeless of France as oppressed, Have you even read down and out in Paris and London not once did he mention the homeless as oppressed, he even mentions you become homeless due to the choices you make in life. George Orwell wasn't socialist theoreist at all he even despised socialism as a dogma a route to communism or totalitarianism, went into the Spanish Civil War as an Communist/Socialist and came home with a lot of anarchist ideals the books he wrote such as Animal Farm and 1984 will testify to that.

However George Orwell was undogmatic, and dissaproved of dogmatism in socialism.

[Gilrandir]

Is anyone going to manually enforce the suspension on Lizardo, or is he going to continue smearing Jo Cox on here?

Ask Putin to send some fans.

[Gilrandir]

Perhaps you can point to a socialist country that has prospered?

Germany, Britain, Norway, Netherlands.

Norway?

All wrong. The correct answer is China.