Brexit Thread

[PROVOST]

[Pannonian]

Then we will have to disagree.

I think right now we need to tend to our own and we are better off making decisions on our own. If you dont consider anyone outside london your own so be it, but we think of you as ours despite the grumbling and untill that changes we'd go to the hilt for you and expect you to do the same for us.

If you want to throw that good will away out of dissapointment over a single decision, that is your loss, but you will never be free of us as long as you stand on our soil.

I consider the south east my own soil, and London in particular my own. I don't see myself stepping foot in Yorkshire, Wales or Cornwall any time soon. I've been to Paris more recently than I've been to any of these places.

[Lizardo]

-snip-

Honk Kong wants to join the UK http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016...try-rejoin-uk/

Liberal Democrats go full communist: The Liberal Democrat party has pledged to ignore the Brexit vote as part of their next general election campaign, positioning themselves as the party of the “48 per cent” who voted to remain inside the European Union (EU).

“Nigel Farage’s vision for Britain has won this vote, but it is not a vision I accept”, declared Lib Dem leader Tim Farron yesterday. “Even though the vote was close, the majority of British people want us to leave. But we refuse to give up on our beliefs”, he said.

[Greyblades]

Some time soon it's gonna be several "our soils", I guess.

Maybe, hope not.

I consider the south east my own soil, and London in particular my own. I don't see myself stepping foot in Yorkshire, Wales or Cornwall any time soon. I've been to Paris more recently than I've been to any of these places.

So have I, doesnt make me french.

[Beskar]

Daniel Hannan - Immigration won't be cut.


Faisal Islam, Sky News Journalist, Says Pro-Brexit MP Told Him: ""there is no plan. Leave campaign don't have a post Brexit plan, Number 10 should have had one"

[Greyblades]

Daniel Hannan - Immigration won't be cut.

Daniel Hannon lost his job, and now isnt getting another in westminster.

Faisal Islam, Sky News Journalist, Says Pro-Brexit MP Told Him: ""there is no plan. Leave campaign don't have a post Brexit plan, Number 10 should have had one"

No duh leave doesnt have a post brexit plan, it's entire structure meant it was to die upon victory and had no obligation to be agreed on the aftermath. Each person who wanted to leaver has his own idea on what to do next, UK democracy will see which one wins out.

[Beskar]

There is a lot of general upset with the leave campaign from many "Out" voters after recent things in the news about all the lies and scandals which are now showing up.

Quoting from someone who voted Out: "I am really upset, these people such be held to account, I voted in good faith with what I was being told, and turns out they lied about it all"

In other news, increase in racist incidents post-brexit.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...ales?CMP=fb_gu

[Fragony]

There is a lot of general upset with the leave campaign from many "Out" voters after recent things in the news about all the lies and scandals which are now showing up.

Quoting from someone who voted Out: "I am really upset, these people such be held to account, I voted in good faith with what I was being told, and turns out they lied about it all"

Of course there are lies. It's a direction not a solution that fixes everything, those who think it was are really dumb. But the direction is good imho

[AntiDamascus]

That's a lovely way of thinking. Yea we lied, but it was to get us to this point, now start fixing the thing we caused.

[Pannonian]

No duh leave doesnt have a post brexit plan, it's entire structure meant it was to die upon victory and had no obligation to be agreed on the aftermath. Each person who wanted to leaver has his own idea on what to do next, UK democracy will see which one wins out.

In other words, something irrevocable whose effects will last for decades does not and should not have a manifesto against which its promises can be gauged.

Of course there are lies. It's a direction not a solution that fixes everything, those who think it was are really dumb. But the direction is good imho

And a good thing there isn't an actionable manifesto, as lies to get people to vote to this point are an acceptable way of conning really dumb people into voting for this. But the direction is good, so the ends justify the means.

[Greyblades]

Damascus: My thinking is "these idiots jumped on my bandwagon and lied while being pulled along by us, your side lied back harder, had public sympathy for the murder of a politician, had support from all sides, and you still lost, because my side's underlying arguments and convictions were stronger"

[Greyblades]

In other words, something irrevocable whose effects will last for decades does not and should not have a manifesto against which its promises can be gauged.

Or in other words the greatest question of the day was answered by a referendum and what happens next is up to us. Promise and manifeso are moot because this isnt an election; no one man or group is being given power and thus has to live up to promises they made. It was not an issue of "what i will do for you" it was "which option do you like better". If you actually decided based on the promised of the leave you are no less foolish than if you decided on the promise of the remain, for their promises were no less baseless.

[Pannonian]

Or in other words the greatest question of the day was answered by a referendum and what happens next is up to us. Promise and manifeso are moot because this isnt an election; no one man or group is being given power and thus has to live up to promises they made. It was not an issue of "what i will do for you" it was "which option do you like better". If you actually decided based on the promised of the leave you are no less foolish than if you decided on the promise of the remain, for their promises were no less baseless.

And there I was thinking that I was living the promises of the remain camp.

[Husar]

Damascus: My thinking is "these idiots jumped on my bandwagon and lied while being pulled along by us, your side lied back harder, had public sympathy for the murder of a politician, had support from all sides, and you still lost, because my side's underlying arguments and convictions lies were stronger"

Corrected.
You can thank me later.

There are also stories of people who voted leave to spite politicians and because they thought remain would win anyway. As an outsider I have to say it's a great show of political incompetence.

Which makes all the praise of the great democratic traditions of Britain even more hilarious of course.

[Fragony]

Laugh again when your savings are going to be spread, it has already been decided

Nexit will be next, we will team up with England, Denmark and Norway

[Greyblades]

And there I was thinking that I was living the promises of the remain camp.

I'm sorry are we in WW3 now? Someone should tell Europe, I'm sure they'd like to know their leaders are supposed to be turning thier back on us, and that the're behind on throwing our people in thier lands out of their homes.

[Husar]

Laugh again when your savings are going to be spread, it has already been decided

You really seem to live in your own world.
Why else would you think that I had savings of more than 100k € or thereabouts?
Would it really hurt me to lose some if I did? Could I not afford food anymore if my 200k € in savings got cut by 10%? Would I lose my home? My car? My computer? My yacht? Maybe my private jet and helicopter?

People who save cash for retirement obviously put it under their pillow where the gubmint ain't get it or give it to a banker so he can invest and then lose it in the next financial crisis. Maybe a Nexit and Dexit will ruin your retirement funds right away, but then you can start saving again in the knowledge that at least there won't be any foreigners paying taxes into your retirement fund when you get old.

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...rs-netherlands

To give a sense of the Dutch inclination for Europhobia: Wilders currently polls at less than 20% of the vote. The Netherlands has a real democracy rather than a first-past-the-post system so 20% really means just 20%.

Oh and this is for everyone, emphasis mine:

For a sense of how important this is, one might quote the most important Europhobe billionaire, Australian-born, US immigrant Rupert Murdoch. When asked why he opposed the EU, Murdoch was recently quoted as saying that this was “easy” to understand: “When I go into Downing Street they do what I say; when I go to Brussels they take no notice.”

[Lizardo]

Not only is Trump fair game for assassination attempts now, Farage is also a legitimate target for the Twitter Hitsquad

1) A BREXIT GOVERNMENT – The Cameroons are already signing up members to the Conservative Party in order to make sure someone like Nicky Morgan, Stephen Crabb, or Theresa May is the next Prime Minister. This is NOT a Brexit government. In my opinion the only person that can be trusted inside the Conservative Party at this stage is Dr. Liam Fox. He has proved he can and will work with UKIP and Farage and that's what is important. WE CANNOT TRUST BORIS/CARSWELL/HANNAN on this topic. They are already refusing to tackle migration if they get in. Talks, as I warned BEFORE the referendum, now include the phrase "Associate EU membership". This is NOT what we voted for. My question to you is: would you be willing to join the Conservative Party in order to swing a leadership election in Fox's favour? If so, you should do it now. We only have a small window.

2) CUTTING FARAGE OUT – We cannot allow this to happen. I know Carswell is gathering his team in Westminster tomorrow to try and force Nigel out of UKIP leadership. Carswell will likely take a cabinet position in a BORIS government. For the reasons above, this cannot happen. I'm told that Paul Nuttall, Neil Hamilton, and Suzanne Evans are now on Team Carswell.

3) A GENERAL ELECTION – This is becoming more of a likelihood for around November and we have to be ready for it.

4) SECOND REFERENDUMS/PETITIONS – I think more or less people realise that petition is a fraud. Yes, the petitions committee will debate it.

5) THIS GOVT MUST BE DISMISSED – I know it is a big shout, but I think Her Majesty must intervene and dismiss the current government. Look at what Phillip Hammond said this morning about Gibraltar. Effectively, "come and take it, we don't care". These people are NOT defenders of Britain. They are defenders of their corporate mates. And now they're out of sorts with them and they're lashing out against the public and against Britain. Write to Buckingham Palace. This is what the Queen exists for. We are approaching major constitutional crisis.

And Beskar I dont think the Guardian can be trusted anymore, its reporters were found out for lying and for goodness sakes its a front for George Soros plus they lied about the Nigel Farage NHS thing, it wasnt Nigel that promised that it was vote leave nigel was part of Grassroots out.

[Fragony]

You really seem to live in your own world.
Why else would make you think that I had savings of more than 100k € or thereabouts?
Would it really hurt me to lose some if I did? Could I not afford food anymore if my 200k € in savings got cut by 10%? Would I lose my home? My car? My computer? My yacht? Maybe my private jet and helicopter?

People who save cash for retirement obviously put it under their pillow where the gubmint ain't get it or give it to a banker so he can invest and then lose it in the next financial crisis. Maybe a Nexit and Dexit will ruin your retiremnt funds right away, but then you can start saving again in the knowledge that at least there won't be any foreigners paying taxes into your retirement fund when you get old.

I am not getting anything anyway so all my money is in art and antiques. But yes the EU is going to steal your pensions. They even sneaked in having to be able to a single(lol) oppertunity to grab a part of private money in case of a crisis. You must be reading and watching quality-media if that is new to you

In our case it's only 140.000.000..000 euro to fuel the engine.

Nexit will be next we are soooooo fed up

[Pannonian]

I'm sorry are we in WW3 now? Someone should tell Europe, I'm sure they'd like to know their leaders are supposed to be turning thier back on us, and that the're behind on throwing our people in thier lands out of their homes.

Voting remain would have meant the status quo.

[Greyblades]

Voting remain meant relying on cameron's promise of specal treatment, which he hadnt guarenteed by the time of the vote, and likely wouldnt have gotten if remain had won in significant numbers.

[Pannonian]

Voting remain meant relying on cameron's promise of specal treatment, which he hadnt guarenteed by the time of the vote, and likely wouldnt have gotten if remain had won in significant numbers.

There was an announcement shortly after the result that the agreement made in February was now voided, and will not exist in the light of Britain's new status. That would strongly suggest that the agreement did indeed exist, as something that did not exist could not be voided. The British commissioner also resigned as the EU's finance minister after the referendum result, saying that he had campaigned against the EEC in the past and was a Eurosceptic, but on balance, thought that Britain's membership of the EU was beneficial to our economy and our status in the world.

[Beskar]

Nigel Farage is not part of the official campaign, and he is not an MP. There is no reason for him to be included. Sorry Lizardo, but it is a bad call for him to be included.

[Lizardo]

Nigel Farage is not part of the official campaign, and he is not an MP. There is no reason for him to be included. Sorry Lizardo, but it is a bad call for him to be included.

But neither is Daniel Hannan he is a MEP just like Farage and Douglas Carswell was a tory but defected to UKIP because he knew UKIP would win his seat so now he basically cut off ties with UKIP and is not UKIP but in name, yet both of them were included. The conservative goverment denied his request for Official governement funding. Official or not he was a major influencer in the Debates.

[Greyblades]

There was an announcement shortly after the result that the agreement made in February was now voided, and will not exist in the light of Britain's new status. That would strongly suggest that the agreement did indeed exist, as something that did not exist could not be voided.

Existed as an agreement, but was it finalized? Enacted?

Cameron got a promise, but he didnt get it done before the vote and until it was enacted it could be revoked, and when placed against a beligerent Juncker and a untrustworthy EU it was impossible for cameron to guarentee it would be respected after a solid Bremain vote reinforced the EU's confidence.

The British commissioner also resigned as the EU's finance minister after the referendum result, saying that he had campaigned against the EEC in the past and was a Eurosceptic, but on balance, thought that Britain's membership of the EU was beneficial to our economy and our status in the world.

Principle says it doesnt matter if you are comfortable and of high status if you cannot decide your own direction, and pragmatism says economic health and status did not help the working poor. The EU was great for those already prosperous but it hurt those at the bottom rung, it hampered our ability to change their state for the better and facilitated those who wished to distract from the issue.

[Pannonian]

Existed as an agreement, but was it finalized? Enacted?

Cameron got a promise, but he didnt get it done before the vote and until it was enacted it could be revoked, and when placed against a beligerent Juncker and a untrustworthy EU it was impossible for cameron to guarentee it would be respected after a solid Bremain vote reinforced the EU's confidence.

Principle says it doesnt matter if you are comfortable and of high status if you cannot decide your own direction, and pragmatism says economic health and status did not help the working poor. The EU was great for those already prosperous but it hurt those at the bottom rung, it hampered our ability to change their state for the better and facilitated those who wished to distract from the issue.

Good point. One needs to be able to determine one's own direction, and the EU has not been good for those at the bottom rung. So now that the EU has been removed from the equation (notwithstanding the concerns from the Leaving communities about how the shortfall from EU subsidies will be made up), let everyone determine their own direction. London's tax money should no longer be at the disposal of the regions, as London ought to be able to determine the direction of its own taxes. And the regions should be able to determine their own direction, free from the hated EU and free from the hated London.

Can Cameron hang on long enough to give us a third referendum, this time to divorce London and the south east from the rest of the country? That would conclusively solve the problem of London-centrism once and for all.

[InsaneApache]

It does seem to me that there’s been a misunderstanding about what, exactly, a referendum is about. It’s not a general election. It’s not about electing a party with a manifesto. It’s simply getting an answer to a specific question, in this case, whether to stay in or leave the EU. So when disgruntled Remainers complain that there is no blueprint for the future, no grand plan for the way ahead, no specifics about immigration reduction, no answers about getting access to the free trade area, all you can say is, that’s not what it was about, people. There was a coalition of disparate interests behind the Brexit side, from Labour to Ukip, and all they had in common was that they wanted out of the EU. It would then be over to the British government, of whatever type and stamp, to decide how things go from now on.

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/06...ot-referendum/

[Pannonian]

Fantastic. So there's absolutely nothing to hold the Brexit campaigners to, to see if they're keeping their promises. All Brexiters can hold their hands up and say, this isn't our problem, it's the government's responsibility. Everything that goes wrong isn't the Brexit campaign's fault for making promises they can't keep, but the government's fault because they've not achieved utopia after Brexit handed over the situation to them.

The EU is responsible for all the ills in the world, but Brexit is apparently responsible for nothing. It's all the government's responsibility.

[Greyblades]

No shit brexit is responsible for nothing. It's a single issue alliance at best, not a party. Brexit died as an entity once the last vote was counted.

The referendum has given the government it's marching orders; the MP's promised to follow them and are expected to get moving and if they dont a majority of them will be evicted for those who do, case closed.

[Pannonian]

Boris Johnson says UK will continue to "intensify" cooperation with EU following referendum result

WTF? You've just headed a successful campaign to leave the EU. Surely, despite the paucity of firm promises from the Brexit camp that we can hold them to, the least you can do is leave the EU. Or is even leaving the EU one promise too many for the Brexit camp?