Brexit Thread

[Greyblades]

There are two things that brexit's win was supposed to secure; soverignty and immigration controls, the single market is a worthy prize and bargains should be attempted but if europe insists that access is only for those that sacrifices one or both of those principles Britain will choose to do without.

[Pannonian]

There are two things that brexit's win was supposed to secure; soverignty and immigration controls, the single market is a worthy prize and bargains should be attempted but if europe insists that access is only for those that sacrifices one or both of those principles Britain will choose to do without.

1. We've never lost control of our sovereignty, as the white paper explicitly states.
2. We've always had control of immigration from non-EU countries. It's that our governments haven't enforced existing controls. That's Westminster's choice, not Brussels. And even EU immigrants are limited, as they have to be within a job within 3 months or their stay here is revoked. There are certain key infrastructure areas that are heavily dependent on EU migrants, so even with control, the government isn't going to reduce their number.

In exchange for not much change in the above, we're leaving the single market.

[Greyblades]

1. We werent able to dictate our own policy without being overruled by the EU in multiple areas. Parliament's soverignty was only absolute in that it had the ability to cancel the EU's influence in an "I reject all and choose nothing" act, as it just did.
2. You havent refuted that we didnt have total control over our immigration policy.

You ever get tired of losing this argument?

[Montmorency]

1. We werent able to dictate our own policy without being overruled by the EU in multiple areas. Parliament's soverignty was only absolute in that it had the ability to cancel the EU's influence in an "I reject all and choose nothing" act, as it just did.
2. You havent refuted that we didnt have total control over our immigration policy.

You ever get tired of losing this argument?

But your sovereignty will still be constrained. You would have to proceed by pulling out of the United Nations and any international treaties and organizations.

[Greyblades]

Much less, and by our consent, that's the point.

Last I checked the UN hasnt drastically expanded it's influence on our domestic policy since it's inception without our consultation.

[Pannonian]

But your sovereignty will still be constrained. You would have to proceed by pulling out of the United Nations and any international treaties and organizations.

And GB continues to (probably intentionally) miss the fact that the UK government has always had more control over all these things than it has chosen to exercise. Once the UK government has even greater control, it will continue to do the same as before, for the same reasons as before (ie. the economy and infrastructure are dependent on them), except without access to the single market.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

And GB continues to (probably intentionally) miss the fact that the UK government has always had more control over all these things than it has chosen to exercise. Once the UK government has even greater control, it will continue to do the same as before, for the same reasons as before (ie. the economy and infrastructure are dependent on them), except without access to the single market.

That is and isn't true.

For example - weights and measures - we were briefly forced to adopt metric and Imperial was banned until mass-revolt forced the EU to soften the regulation.

Port Talbort Steel - the UK Government cannot take it into public ownership without violating EU regulations on unfair state support for private business. The same regulations that enforced mass-privatisation in Bulgaria and Romania, creating new opportunities for graft.

The best thing about leaving the EU will be removing the excuse that the EU is preventing the government from doing anything in a given situation.

[Pannonian]

That is and isn't true.

For example - weights and measures - we were briefly forced to adopt metric and Imperial was banned until mass-revolt forced the EU to soften the regulation.

Port Talbort Steel - the UK Government cannot take it into public ownership without violating EU regulations on unfair state support for private business. The same regulations that enforced mass-privatisation in Bulgaria and Romania, creating new opportunities for graft.

The best thing about leaving the EU will be removing the excuse that the EU is preventing the government from doing anything in a given situation.

And when nothing changes because the practicalities demand current solutions? How do you resolve sectors that employ a disproportionate number of non-UK citizens? Do you close hospitals because Asian nurses and doctors aren't welcome any more? Do you let OAPs rot in their homes because eastern European carers aren't wanted any more?