Brexit Thread

[Montmorency]

1. We werent able to dictate our own policy without being overruled by the EU in multiple areas. Parliament's soverignty was only absolute in that it had the ability to cancel the EU's influence in an "I reject all and choose nothing" act, as it just did.
2. You havent refuted that we didnt have total control over our immigration policy.

You ever get tired of losing this argument?

But your sovereignty will still be constrained. You would have to proceed by pulling out of the United Nations and any international treaties and organizations.

[Greyblades]

Much less, and by our consent, that's the point.

Last I checked the UN hasnt drastically expanded it's influence on our domestic policy since it's inception without our consultation.

[Pannonian]

But your sovereignty will still be constrained. You would have to proceed by pulling out of the United Nations and any international treaties and organizations.

And GB continues to (probably intentionally) miss the fact that the UK government has always had more control over all these things than it has chosen to exercise. Once the UK government has even greater control, it will continue to do the same as before, for the same reasons as before (ie. the economy and infrastructure are dependent on them), except without access to the single market.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

And GB continues to (probably intentionally) miss the fact that the UK government has always had more control over all these things than it has chosen to exercise. Once the UK government has even greater control, it will continue to do the same as before, for the same reasons as before (ie. the economy and infrastructure are dependent on them), except without access to the single market.

That is and isn't true.

For example - weights and measures - we were briefly forced to adopt metric and Imperial was banned until mass-revolt forced the EU to soften the regulation.

Port Talbort Steel - the UK Government cannot take it into public ownership without violating EU regulations on unfair state support for private business. The same regulations that enforced mass-privatisation in Bulgaria and Romania, creating new opportunities for graft.

The best thing about leaving the EU will be removing the excuse that the EU is preventing the government from doing anything in a given situation.

[Pannonian]

That is and isn't true.

For example - weights and measures - we were briefly forced to adopt metric and Imperial was banned until mass-revolt forced the EU to soften the regulation.

Port Talbort Steel - the UK Government cannot take it into public ownership without violating EU regulations on unfair state support for private business. The same regulations that enforced mass-privatisation in Bulgaria and Romania, creating new opportunities for graft.

The best thing about leaving the EU will be removing the excuse that the EU is preventing the government from doing anything in a given situation.

And when nothing changes because the practicalities demand current solutions? How do you resolve sectors that employ a disproportionate number of non-UK citizens? Do you close hospitals because Asian nurses and doctors aren't welcome any more? Do you let OAPs rot in their homes because eastern European carers aren't wanted any more?

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

And when nothing changes because the practicalities demand current solutions? How do you resolve sectors that employ a disproportionate number of non-UK citizens? Do you close hospitals because Asian nurses and doctors aren't welcome any more? Do you let OAPs rot in their homes because eastern European carers aren't wanted any more?

Strawman.

I was talking about EU regulation making UK regulation inflexible, you are talking about the UK becoming Xenophobic.

[Montmorency]

The best thing about leaving the EU will be removing the excuse that the EU is preventing the government from doing anything in a given situation.

What's the next excuse?

[Pannonian]

What's the next excuse?

Foreigners who are already here.

[Pannonian]

Strawman.

I was talking about EU regulation making UK regulation inflexible, you are talking about the UK becoming Xenophobic.

You've listed a couple of instances where the UK overturned or did not implement EU regulations, in keeping with the white paper's statement that the UK had never actually lost sovereignty. In return for not having those disagreements which had ended in the UK's favour, we've left the single market, meaning we will no longer be competitive in the market where 50% of our exports go.

And note that by far the biggest reason voters have cited as the reason for Leave is immigration, ie. they want less of it. The reason we are leaving the single market is because the government recognises this as a non-negotiable point. If you disagree, and freedom of movement isn't as important a point as flexibility of regulations, then perhaps you can write to the PM and explain that FoM is actually negotiable after all, and thus access to the single market is possible. Perhaps we can have another referendum clarifying this point. Perhaps this second referendum will clarify that, yes, the UK is indeed xenophobic after all, and we're willing to wreck our economy if it means fewer of these nasty foreigners will be here. As it is, the government takes this as a given.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

What's the next excuse?

There isn't one, that's the point.

You've listed a couple of instances where the UK overturned or did not implement EU regulations, in keeping with the white paper's statement that the UK had never actually lost sovereignty. In return for not having those disagreements which had ended in the UK's favour, we've left the single market, meaning we will no longer be competitive in the market where 50% of our exports go.

And note that by far the biggest reason voters have cited as the reason for Leave is immigration, ie. they want less of it. The reason we are leaving the single market is because the government recognises this as a non-negotiable point. If you disagree, and freedom of movement isn't as important a point as flexibility of regulations, then perhaps you can write to the PM and explain that FoM is actually negotiable after all, and thus access to the single market is possible. Perhaps we can have another referendum clarifying this point. Perhaps this second referendum will clarify that, yes, the UK is indeed xenophobic after all, and we're willing to wreck our economy if it means fewer of these nasty foreigners will be here. As it is, the government takes this as a given.

Like I said - excuses.

As to the Immigration argument - people need to get over this. Wanting less immigration does not make you evil in a country as overcrowded as this one.