Brexit Thread

[Pannonian]

While the large majority of Brexit supporters and Trump supporters are decent folk, most of whom are simply concerned with "taking care of our own first," the stupid racists (sorry, that's redundant) are fellow travelers on these issues even if their motivations are far more sinister. Sadly, this means that some of them will be emboldened in their racist agenda. I hope it gets slapped down hard on both sides of the pond.

And yes, Pannonian, I am fully aware that you believe -- quite possibly correctly -- that those operating from a "take care of our own first" motivation are actually enacting a process that will take care of themselves less effectively than the current system.

I do get tired of the racist fringe groups being used (purposefully?) to tar the characterization of the Trump supporters (and apparently the pro brexiters as well).

One of the ironies about the Leave campaign is that one of the most effective scare stories was the spectre of Turkey joining the EU with subsequent freedom of movement into Britain (even though the UK has been the strongest advocate for Turkish membership throughout the years, and even though accession wouldn't be possible without all current members agreeing). We don't want these Muslims here, right? Now that we've realised that trade negotiations with the post-UK EU won't be as smooth as Brexiteers anticipated, we're scratching around for trade deals with whoever may be interested. One of the trumpeted proposed deals is with Turkey, which, of course, won't come without reciprocal freedom of movement.

Bloody myopic idiots.

And Blair has entered the arena. I wonder if pro-EU Labour supporters will automatically turn pro-hard Brexit simply to support Corbyn and oppose Blair. The comments on online newspaper articles indicate they will.

[Greyblades]

(even though the UK has been the strongest advocate for Turkish membership throughout the years, and even though accession wouldn't be possible without all current members agreeing)

Yes, Brexiteers have been really approving of what the government was doing with the EU in the last 20 years years, undoubtably approving.

One of the trumpeted proposed deals is with Turkey, which, of course, won't come without reciprocal freedom of movement.

Of course, it's inevitable that nations will never accept trade deals if they dont have free movement deals attached, I mean it's not as if even Merkel herself said a few months ago said she would allow wriggle room on freedom of movement or anythi- oh.

Turkey may want freedom of movement but may's cotinuing aptitude for political self preservation wont let them get it. Either Turkey will drop the idea or there wont be a deal.

Bloody myopic idiots.

Myopic, says the one who wanted to stay shackled to the sinking ship because he feared a more immediate discomfort.

And Blair has entered the arena. I wonder if pro-EU Labour supporters will automatically turn pro-hard Brexit simply to support Corbyn and oppose Blair. The comments on online newspaper articles indicate they will.

The only site I found with approving commenters was the guardian. I forsee Blair ensuring brexit acceptance.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

I know for certain that the Norway model that you thought was the most likely result is definitely off the cards, as the PM has ruled out one of the preconditions. So we won't have the same access to the single market, which accounts for 50% of our exports. We'll need to renegotiate a trade deal to have some kind of access, which has been confirmed won't be as privileged as before (again, this isn't guesswork, but quotes from the powers that be). There are any number of areas where we are uncertain, but we are certain of the above.

We may still end up with a "Transitional Deal" in the Norway model, and then get stuck "in transition" so you don't even know that, really. As to the eventual Trade Deal being less favourable for all concerned, this is not news.

Something else that has been predicted, that is coming to pass bit by bit, is increased costs leading to companies passing on the costs to their customers. For some things we can just do without. However, Labour recently mooted a proposal to cap energy costs. Which suggests there is at least some realistic possibility that energy will be one of the things that will increase in cost in the coming future. Should we do without heating in the future, as one of the necessary belt tightening costs that political Brexit (such as you've trumpeted) will require?

This is an interesting one, actually.

Beskar mentioned a guy who had to switch from getting Bicycle parts from Japan to Italy after the pound dropped, but that they were actually cheaper from Italy. Obviously that price is liable to go up after Brexit, but this raises a number of questions:

1. Why can't we manufacture something as mundane as this ourselves instead of transporting it half way across the world? Aside from anything else this is a waste of shipping and an undeeded impact on the environment, not to mention a waste of time.

2. Why was he getting them from Japan rather than Italy to being with - given we have no trade deal with Japan? Does this mean that, in reality, Trade Deals are not so important.

As a final note, bear in mind that 50% of our exports go to the EU partly because we are in the EU. If we were not in the EU we would have different trade deals with other nations and a different export profile.

One of the ironies about the Leave campaign is that one of the most effective scare stories was the spectre of Turkey joining the EU with subsequent freedom of movement into Britain (even though the UK has been the strongest advocate for Turkish membership throughout the years, and even though accession wouldn't be possible without all current members agreeing). We don't want these Muslims here, right? Now that we've realised that trade negotiations with the post-UK EU won't be as smooth as Brexiteers anticipated, we're scratching around for trade deals with whoever may be interested. One of the trumpeted proposed deals is with Turkey, which, of course, won't come without reciprocal freedom of movement.

Bloody myopic idiots.

One assumes the two groups are the same - it does not follow that because people didn't want free movement of people and labour from Turkey that politicians didn't want a trade deal. Likewise, British politicians wanted the EU in Turkey to bulwark it against Islamism by redirecting its gaze Westwards.

This was never realistic - Turkey would rather be the shark in the Middle East than another fish in Europe.

And Blair has entered the arena. I wonder if pro-EU Labour supporters will automatically turn pro-hard Brexit simply to support Corbyn and oppose Blair. The comments on online newspaper articles indicate they will.

Another example of why Corbyn needs to go, then, if his mere presence drives Labour supporters insane.

[Gilrandir]

2. Why was he getting them from Japan rather than Italy to being with - given we have no trade deal with Japan? Does this mean that, in reality, Trade Deals are not so important.

Trade agreements may not be comprehensive, so some goods may be outside them. Perhaps it was the case.

[LittleGrizzly]

Another example of why Corbyn needs to go, then, if his mere presence drives Labour supporters insane.
................................................................................

You do realise it was Blair not Corbyn who influenced the insane change in the bit you quoted.

The inference of it being another example of him (Blair) needing to go (and his few supporters) Is correct though.

[Pannonian]

Another example of why Corbyn needs to go, then, if his mere presence drives Labour supporters insane.
................................................................................

You do realise it was Blair not Corbyn who influenced the insane change in the bit you quoted.

The inference of it being another example of him (Blair) needing to go (and his few supporters) Is correct though.

Speaking of him, Corbyn has just managed to lose a seat that's been Labour since 1935. The last time the Tories won there, the Weimar Republic still existed.

[Idaho]

That was a pretty dire result in the by-election, whichever way you look at it.

[Greyblades]

Labour splinter when? Cant wait for a labour rights party that isnt smothered by globalist ideologues and identity politics.

Maybe they can even have it without the commies.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

That was a pretty dire result in the by-election, whichever way you look at it.

It's not looking dire from here at all. Notably, Labour only really held the other seat because the Right Wing/Brexit vote appears to have been split between UKIP and the Tories, and this after UKIP's new leader was hit by a fairly hefty public-relations ruckus.

Don't worry though, I'm sure Corbyn will be re-elected at this year's Labour Party Conference.