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Thread: We no longer debate the merit of ideas here.

  1. #1
    BrownWings: AirViceMarshall Senior Member Furunculus's Avatar
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    Default We no longer debate the merit of ideas here.

    It has been reduced to diversionary sniping, and malicious point-scoring.

    What happened to challenging discussion, and how did the place become so polarised?

    The place is a sewer, a boring sewer at that!

    Discuss.
    Furunculus Maneuver: Adopt a highly logical position on a controversial subject where you cannot disagree with the merits of the proposal, only disagree with an opinion based on fundamental values. - Beskar

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  2. #2
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: We no longer debate the merit of ideas here.

    Disagree, there is nobody I wouldn't buy a beer no matter how much I disagree. The tenth circle of hell is a pretty comfortable place

  3. #3
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: We no longer debate the merit of ideas here.

    The thing is that we can't even discuss that.

    It seems like a global trend, since social media gave everybody his or her own echo chamber, people don't question their own views anymore.
    There can be no doubt, only wrong people and what I know for a fact.
    Or at least that is how it is presented on the innernet.


    "Topic is tired and needs a nap." - Tosa Inu

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  4. #4
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: We no longer debate the merit of ideas here.

    Doesn't apply for me I question my ideas all the time, I can completily change my mind when convinced. I don't think I have ever been guilty of disrespectively disagreeing
    Last edited by Fragony; 07-03-2016 at 14:18.

  5. #5
    Mr Self Important Senior Member Beskar's Avatar
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    Default Re: We no longer debate the merit of ideas here.

    The focus of the narrative on immigration in the mainstream press is to blame too. Every debate has immigrants brought up, it is like you cannot get away from the subject. It is a stagnant and tired topic that needs a nap.
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  6. #6
    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: We no longer debate the merit of ideas here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony View Post
    Disagree, there is nobody I wouldn't buy a beer no matter how much I disagree
    childless Mutti excluded.
    Quote Originally Posted by Suraknar View Post
    The article exists for a reason yes, I did not write it...

  7. #7

    Default Re: We no longer debate the merit of ideas here.

    That focus on immigration I would propose is a deflection from the failure of the political class, and the "captains on industry", to raise all boats.
    The immigrant as problem is cover for the transfer of wealth up the food chain.
    Ja-mata TosaInu

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  8. #8
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: We no longer debate the merit of ideas here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilrandir View Post
    childless Mutti excluded.
    Drank coffee with Schultz and his wife in fact. Gave his wive a 'kwelpeer' and some cheese.
    Last edited by Fragony; 07-03-2016 at 14:39.

  9. #9
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: We no longer debate the merit of ideas here.

    It's certainly not my fault, I'm perfect and I know it because I'm very self-critical.


    "Topic is tired and needs a nap." - Tosa Inu

  10. #10
    Member Member Crandar's Avatar
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    Default Re: We no longer debate the merit of ideas here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Furunculus View Post
    It has been reduced to diversionary sniping, and malicious point-scoring.

    What happened to challenging discussion, and how did the place become so polarised?

    The place is a sewer, a boring sewer at that!

    Discuss.
    Well, there is no new blood in .org, which means that only the Old Guard is in the Backroom, which , through years of experience, not going to change its views. Even the topics, immigrants, Islam, the EU, is natural to repeat themselves, so there's really nothing new to say.

    Everyone has become uber-cynical and knows that there's no point bothering to write a long elegant post, because nobody is going to be persuaded by it. Sarcastic remarks are the only means of discussion that worth it, thanks to their short and funny content.

    Exactly like a company of old men pointlessly repeating the same old arguments and views in the local pub. The decline of the Backroom is the symptom of the general decline of .org.

    That being said, I find the atmosphere very friendly, this time the positive consequence of the same cause, the familiarization between the old guard. Pay a visit to the mudpit, and you will find what diversionary sniping, and malicious point-scoring actually is.

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  11. #11
    Stranger in a strange land Moderator Hooahguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: We no longer debate the merit of ideas here.

    On the plus side, the lack of consistent new blood makes it (usually) easy to moderate y'all.
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  12. #12

    Default Re: We no longer debate the merit of ideas here.

    We'll the threads here are specific ideas and almost exclusively set up (not by here though) to be two sided fights. They're almost too specific and therefore have no wiggle room.

    Also I'm fairly new here!

  13. #13
    Member Member Greyblades's Avatar
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    Default Re: We no longer debate the merit of ideas here.

    Treat people as you are treated: easy.
    Treat people as you want to be treated: hard.

    We argue, but we dont respect each other very much, but the disrespect is limited. In the TWC's mudpit debators hold thier intellectual opponents in outright contempt.
    Last edited by Greyblades; 07-03-2016 at 20:00.
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  14. #14

    Default Re: We no longer debate the merit of ideas here.

    This place has condescending vibes.
    Last edited by AE Bravo; 07-03-2016 at 22:12.

  15. #15
    Horse Archer Senior Member Sarmatian's Avatar
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    Default Re: We no longer debate the merit of ideas here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Furunculus View Post
    It has been reduced to diversionary sniping, and malicious point-scoring.

    What happened to challenging discussion, and how did the place become so polarised?

    The place is a sewer, a boring sewer at that!

    Discuss.
    You act like you're surprised. Intelligent posters rarely post or have outright left, and the less said about the new blood the better.

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  16. #16

    Default Re: We no longer debate the merit of ideas here.

    Sigh, maybe the "old blood" should lighten up a bit.
    Last edited by AE Bravo; 07-03-2016 at 23:10.

  17. #17
    Horse Archer Senior Member Sarmatian's Avatar
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    Default Re: We no longer debate the merit of ideas here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Showtime View Post
    Sigh, maybe the "old blood" should lighten up a bit.
    You have mostly appeared rational.

    At this point, the problem is that I simply don't care.

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  18. #18
    Member Member Greyblades's Avatar
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    Default Re: We no longer debate the merit of ideas here.

    At this point?
    Being better than the worst does not inherently make you good. But being better than the rest lets you brag.


    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
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  19. #19
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: We no longer debate the merit of ideas here.

    We know eachother too well by now, the backroom must be a pretty confusing for newcommers as they can't know the views and the nuances we take for granted. It's not a hostile place but I can understand why it is (unintentionally) not a very welcomming place. Showtime is a good example, obviously a very smart guy. He can't know how I look at things and that isn't his fault whatsoever because has only read things that are insulting to him, and they frankly are if you don't have years of context. We aren't short on interesting individuals here but it's probably hard to get into.
    Last edited by Fragony; 07-04-2016 at 07:41.

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  20. #20
    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: We no longer debate the merit of ideas here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarmatian View Post
    Intelligent posters rarely post or have outright left, and the less said about the new blood the better.
    Quote Originally Posted by Greyblades View Post
    In the TWC's mudpit debators hold thier intellectual opponents in outright contempt.
    The upper one shows contempt for ALL: both for those of the old guard who stay, and of the new blood who (rarely) join in.
    Quote Originally Posted by Suraknar View Post
    The article exists for a reason yes, I did not write it...

  21. #21
    Hǫr­ar Member Viking's Avatar
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    Default Re: We no longer debate the merit of ideas here.

    I don't recall the Backroom being any more intelligent or friendly than it is now.

    It used to have a greater number of active participants, something that - necessarily - increased the probability of it being perceived as diverse and having interesting posters (in an absolute measure).

    I think this could go a long way towards explaining perceived differences between the Backroom now and at earlier points.
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  22. #22
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: We no longer debate the merit of ideas here.

    It's the 4th of July and I'm still perfect.


    "Topic is tired and needs a nap." - Tosa Inu

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  23. #23

    Default Re: We no longer debate the merit of ideas here.

    I mean I was here maybe a while ago and tried to do the backroom and it was just people screaming insults at each and I walked away. But somewhat recently I came back and thought maybe I was the one who was wrong. Maybe I misread it and it was a misunderstanding or whatever. So I came back and have tried to engage in talks. But nope. And this thread right here is a great example.

    This is not a conform to me post. You guys are fine with what you're doing, go for it. I gave it another shot and looks like more of the same as before. Like someone said farther up, maybe the internet is just for shouting matches and I've grown too old for it or something. But since the question was asked, I figured I'd give an answer.

  24. #24
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: We no longer debate the merit of ideas here.

    There are no insults in this thread, what are you talking about

  25. #25
    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: We no longer debate the merit of ideas here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Husar View Post
    It's the 4th of July and I'm still perfect.
    I love it when we flirt.
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    My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.

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  26. #26

    Default Re: We no longer debate the merit of ideas here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony View Post
    There are no insults in this thread, what are you talking about
    I did not say there were insults in this thread. I said the forum had issues and this thread was a great example. It's basically a lot of people saying "yea, we do that, oh well" As I said, if you guys are fine with it it's your site.

  27. #27
    Backordered Member CrossLOPER's Avatar
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    Default Re: We no longer debate the merit of ideas here.

    There are a number of reasons for this, rose-tinted goggles aside.

    1. An exodus has occurred.
    A large number of people have left, leaving a handful of perspectives. As mentioned before, this results in fewer viewpoints.

    2. Relaxed moderation.
    I approve of minimal oversight and fewer rules for discussion forums. However, this has led to certain parties that tend to like games about supremacy and hegemony to take advantage of the situation and throw around their views. Normally, they would be laughed out of the forums by the vast majority. This does not happen because the population is so small and everyone feels isolated and embattled. This further leads to the loudest and most vocal extremes to be the most common voice, making existing divisions worse.

    3. Lack of unifying trait.
    Whether the newer TW titles are badly made or uninteresting, people don't play the games as much anymore. People originally came here for one reason, and that is because they liked the games so much that they wanted to be around those who like them too. Personally, I don't like the newer titles too much, and I believe that the industry is suffering from a plague of DLC, which turns buying games from a fun experience into a gauntlet of comparing deals and waiting for the 30$ GOTY edition to show up.
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  28. #28
    BrownWings: AirViceMarshall Senior Member Furunculus's Avatar
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    Default Re: We no longer debate the merit of ideas here.

    Quote Originally Posted by CrossLOPER View Post
    Whether the newer TW titles are badly made or uninteresting, people don't play the games as much anymore. People originally came here for one reason, and that is because they liked the games so much that they wanted to be around those who like them too. Personally, I don't like the newer titles too much, and I believe that the industry is suffering from a plague of DLC, which turns buying games from a fun experience into a gauntlet of comparing deals and waiting for the 30$ GOTY edition to show up.
    oddly enough, i was at my post active and interested when i felt the games were rubbish (rome and M2), and for life reasons have been pulled away from the .org when the games made a decided turn for the better.
    Furunculus Maneuver: Adopt a highly logical position on a controversial subject where you cannot disagree with the merits of the proposal, only disagree with an opinion based on fundamental values. - Beskar

  29. #29
    Member Member Greyblades's Avatar
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    Default Re: We no longer debate the merit of ideas here.

    I did not say there were insults in this thread. I said the forum had issues and this thread was a great example. It's basically a lot of people saying "yea, we do that, oh well" As I said, if you guys are fine with it it's your site.
    All I can say is: contribute more, all of you. Sometimes it feels like the only people who are here most of the time are me, gilrandir, fragony and Husar.
    Being better than the worst does not inherently make you good. But being better than the rest lets you brag.


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  30. #30
    Backordered Member CrossLOPER's Avatar
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    Default Re: We no longer debate the merit of ideas here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Furunculus View Post
    rubbish...rome
    Heresy.
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