Terrorist Spree

[Husar]

Knocking on the gates of Vienna?

The Muslim world began in the deserts of Arabia. They didn't become so widespread through peaceful debate.

Now you're equating the typical conquests of that time to the modern terrorism, well done!
What about knocking on the gates of Jerusalem? Or knocking on the gates of Moscow?
Does that mean Christians and French people are inherently violent and want to subjugate the world?
How often did the Mamelukes send suicide terrorists to Europe to kill as many people as possible to spread the terror again?

So... Where's the non islamic colonial inspired terrorism? We have a tonne of indians and chinese in our nation and none of them have sought to kill us in the name of thier forebears.

I think you are using the word "Colonial" wrong.

When was the last time you overthrew an Indian government in favor of a dictator due to a dispute over oil exports?
When was the last time you supplied a Chinese dictator with weapons so he could continue to serve his interests and keep his people down?
Not all colonies were treated in the same way and not all of them served the same purposes. Not all of them were let go the same way.
Like how many borders did you arbitrarily re-draw to include fighting tribes within the same nation in Asia? I thought you were such experts on what constitutes a nation and why a nation is the greatest thing ever. Why then are all the Middle Eastern nations whose borders you drew after colonialism so internally rotten, full of distrust and conflict? Why are they always shown with maps of which ethnicity doesn't like which other ethnicity and a dozen more ethnicities that want nothing to do with them?

I'm NOT saying it was all peaceful there before colonialism, I just don't recall them sending terrorists over to kill and scare us before that. How could they fight back in another way? Boycott McDonald's? Vote for another dictator? Set up an army and expell all foreign lobbyists after defeating the government that we equipped with high-tech weaponry? Tell me what a Saudi Arabian who is not happy with all the oil being sold off to the US for the profit of the Saud family can do to stop it that actually has an impact, other than kill a lot of people in Europe? Stage a peaceful protest in Riyad?

[Pannonian]

Now you're equating the typical conquests of that time to the modern terrorism, well done!
What about knocking on the gates of Jerusalem? Or knocking on the gates of Moscow?
Does that mean Christians and French people are inherently violent and want to subjugate the world?
How often did the Mamelukes send suicide terrorists to Europe to kill as many people as possible to spread the terror again?

You're blaming European colonialism for everything the Muslims do. However, the Muslims did more than a spot of colonising themselves. And they did the old form of colonising, ie. killing everyone who used to live there before repopulating with their own. Why do you not blame them for this? Because the west is to blame for everything, as per the bleeding heart liberal line. TBF, the colonised didn't get up to much terrorism at the time, probably mainly due to the fact that they were dead. Rubbing out the native population is an effective way of ending resistance in that generation and for generations to come.

[Brenus]

France had a huge Colonial Empire in Indochina. Not a single Vietnamese exploded himself on a French market... Colonialism is not the answer...

[Pannonian]

France had a huge Colonial Empire in Indochina. Not a single Vietnamese exploded himself on a French market... Colonialism is not the answer...

Depends on how you do the colonising. Do it on the basis of trade and resource exploitation, and you get blamed for decades afterwards. Kill them all and repopulate with your own people, and you won't have to face terrorism. Although that didn't quite work for the Germans.

In other news, Hong Kong democrats have asked for a resumption of British rule prior to eventual independence. Damn these imperialists for inculcating terrorists resentful of their historic maltreatment by the colonisers.

[Crandar]

The Arabs never killed everyone and then repopulated the region with their own people.

At least not systematically or at a large extent. Not sure where you got that from.

But yeah I agree, we shouldn't blame colonialism. Just a loser with nothing better to do than murdering innocents out of self hatred. In the states, he would have gone in a shooting rampage in a public space.

edit:

Yeah ISIS inspired him, giving him an edgy and very public way to say goodbye to the cruel world. maybe he would have continued to beat his wife.
But that shows that Islam is not he problem. Neither is the cruelty of ISIS. Only their advertisement PR skills.

[Husar]

You're blaming European colonialism for everything the Muslims do.

No, a lot of muslims do things that noone needs to be blamed for, I'm not blaming anyone for those. And I don't blame the West for all the wars Muslims had between themselves before colonialization? I could swear that I mentioned that the region wasn't exactly peaceful before it got colonized, it just didn't send suicide attackers to Europe around that time...

However, the Muslims did more than a spot of colonising themselves. And they did the old form of colonising, ie. killing everyone who used to live there before repopulating with their own. Why do you not blame them for this? Because the west is to blame for everything, as per the bleeding heart liberal line. TBF, the colonised didn't get up to much terrorism at the time, probably mainly due to the fact that they were dead. Rubbing out the native population is an effective way of ending resistance in that generation and for generations to come.

Or maybe because it is not relevant to the topic? Were we talking about muslims who decide to kill civilians in Europe or the USA today, why would I bring up muslim military conquests from 200+ years ago? 200 years ago everyone was conquesting someone. Why do you never blame Christianity for Charlemagne genociding all the Saxons who refused to convert to Christianity? Maybe because that is not relevant anymore? Maybe that's why I didn't bring it up either?

France had a huge Colonial Empire in Indochina. Not a single Vietnamese exploded himself on a French market... Colonialism is not the answer...

Maybe they just don't have a handy ideological excuse or already had vented their anger when they embraced communism and kicked you out? Vietnam is not currently an ally of the West in the way several Middle Eastern dictatorships or "kingdoms" are, who don't always treat their people with the values we embrace for ourselves. Its borders were also not redrawn by you to include completely different competing tribes etc. And then they already had their share of terrorism while they were getting rid of your influence:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viet_C...ed_struggle.22

Ami Pedahzur has written that "the overall volume and lethality of Vietcong terrorism rivals or exceeds all but a handful of terrorist campaigns waged over the last third of the twentieth century"

So nice try, but apparently not such a good point in the end.

[AE Bravo]

But yeah I agree, we shouldn't blame colonialism. Just a loser with nothing better to do than murdering innocents out of self hatred. In the states, he would have gone in a shooting rampage in a public space.

End of story. A Tunisian, the nationality that if I'm not mistaken makes up the majority of IS recruits this year, decided to commit mass murder. I don't know what's the point of all these history lessons and false equivalencies.

In other news, Hong Kong democrats have asked for a resumption of British rule prior to eventual independence. Damn these imperialists for inculcating terrorists resentful of their historic maltreatment by the colonisers.

Europe made fascism and this is fascism post-globalization from former European territories who are still salty because their countries are not doing what they should be.

[Viking]

Maybe they just don't have a handy ideological excuse or already had vented their anger when they embraced communism and kicked you out? Vietnam is not currently an ally of the West in the way several Middle Eastern dictatorships or "kingdoms" are, who don't always treat their people with the values we embrace for ourselves. Its borders were also not redrawn by you to include completely different competing tribes etc. And then they already had their share of terrorism while they were getting rid of your influence:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viet_C...ed_struggle.22


So nice try, but apparently not such a good point in the end.

So in short, colonialism in and of itself is not the cause.

[Husar]

You can chicken and egg the historical antecedents of these things ad nauseum.

The core concern is really rather simple -- How do we defeat them? As with much that is simple, simple does not equal easy.

Might help if we stop doing things that drive them into poverty or cause other problems for them that drive them into extremism and make them very angry.
I'm aware it will not stop all of them, but reducing their numbers may be a good start, I'm not aware of a good way to end an ideology.

So in short, colonialism in and of itself is not the cause.

No, it is in even shorter.

[Pannonian]

Might help if we stop doing things that drive them into poverty or cause other problems for them that drive them into extremism and make them very angry.
I'm aware it will not stop all of them, but reducing their numbers may be a good start, I'm not aware of a good way to end an ideology.

Most of the troublemakers were born here.

[Husar]

Most of the troublemakers were born here.

In some ghetto and growing up with the "locals" never wanting to talk to them?
Aren't those the areas where a lot of the recruits come from? Then you'd have to say the mistakes were made long before multiculturalism was even a word. At least here we imported the first Turks purely out of greed and to be competitive, which may explain why the Germans tried to ignore them. I'm not sure why France, Britain and the Netherlands for example have so many immigrants from their colonies, do they have free movement or easier immigration? Or do they just prefer their former colonial overlords because they already speak the language?

I don't think anyone can seriously claim that all the muslims in Britain and France only came with the recent waves of refugees, even in Germany we had some very few black people who already lived here under the Nazis, I'd assume in France and Britain there were quite a few more, and that the French used them as soldiers who could never become officers in WW2 should be known as well. Another reason they are often disenfranchized by the way. One may say the situation for them improved with multiculturalism, but they were already burnt by that time and the ghettos established. Multiculturalism doesn't close ghettos in practice.

I know Arabs and Turks who were born here and are basically Germans with a few quirks, apparently the people in the banlieus (forgive me if I forgot a letter that you don't spell anyway) for example are not like that, why?
That still leaves some who think being an islamofascist is a cool underground fashion thing to defend their master race or something, but as Fragony always says, nothing we can do, other than maybe make it appear less cool in general. They seem to argue with the West treating its immigrants like second class people as well.

So what do you think the reasons are?

PS: The reason I don't quite buy purely religious reasons for such zeal might be that I grew up going to very fundamentalist Christian churches, I actually know a guy who went to Texas and preached on campuses there... (you may not want to believe it, but he's actually a cool guy in general, I'm not saying I don't like him)
And I somehow got the impression that these Christians also often have their rather personal reasons to invest this much into their religion, it's not just the religion alone, it can be a fear of permanent death, really bad experiences with the general atheist world and their "friends" outside the church, so that they need a reason why it is this way, and so on. And muslim people are not genetically different from Christian people so that it could explain a completely different behavior I think. The major difference is probably that they have a much larger percentage that grows up in this more fundamentalist muslim world.