Please use this thread for discussions of graphics relating to Ancient TW, to keep things together and easy to find.
( p.s. for GRAPHIC discussions, use the Backroom )
Please use this thread for discussions of graphics relating to Ancient TW, to keep things together and easy to find.
( p.s. for GRAPHIC discussions, use the Backroom )
ANCIENT: TW
A mod for Medieval:TW (with VI)
Discussion forum thread
Download A Game of Thrones Mod v1.4
thanks Mac ...
but can you make it a sticky please ( as it will allow for sub sections )
Thus keeping it neat & tidy ( as I like also)
Leith ...
I reckon we should stick to the darker browns for these Nubians .
I based mine on the originals , chocolate brown skin
I played around & dressed these troops up , so they look better in the Egyptian Army ( original look like trannies on the catwalk
I know its a big job , but either way im happy .
psss ... Ptolemaic African Hoplites coming along nicely
Last edited by dimitrios the samian; 07-07-2016 at 12:35.
They look nice! They should come in handy when designing better looking pike/sword/axe units for the Egyptians/ptolemics.
Goodmorning Macsen , Leith & others .......
Firstly , thanks Mac for sticky'ing this thread , bcoz we have the other thread which is almost similar I will briefly take a moment to define the difference .
I like us to use this thread to deal with all facets required in the production of the graphics needed for each upcoming release .
By Graphics , we mean Troops & lets include all other required Icons & Review Panels & Potraits & Parchments etc etc also .
It will also be the thread were we discuss plans & allocate the work required on the Graphics we need & in what order we produce them .
Along the way we can report on progress or problems as required .
The other thread we will use for learning sharing & teaching various techniques (skinning-modifying & creating etc etc)
Ideally what we need is our Stickied Threads to be Sub-Sections !
eg > A sticky thread Titled "GUIDES" in which you can quickly transfer all the existing Faction Previews already done .
So when entering the Guides sub-section one can then enter into Factions or the yet to come guides on Tactics , Troops , Strategy , etc etc
Other topics will also need Stickied Sub-Sections like hmmm , Bug Reports , Beta Testing (we have) & others ofcourse at your discretion .
I sincerely hope the Org's forums have this capability .
( please check this Macsen when you get time , with the higher powers)
.......................................................
Ok , Another nice touch will be beginning our posts with a TITLE , done in bold capitol letters & different color , its valuable & will help in quickly finding whats required in threads that become nuggets of information on half a dozen topics . examples can include ....
eg , QUESTION , ANSWER , IDEA , PLAN , PROGRESS REPORTS etc etc .
I will begin doing this & we can all follow to keep things in order & easy to find .
many thanks guys
I hope we work & stay together for many many productive years & mods to come
cheers
Dimitrios
****************************************
Ok I shall begin ....
THE PLAN #1
Leith I would like you to join me & help finish of those important units required to enhance "Rise of Persia" .
we both have revealed some superb work , I have posted some early prototypes & you have done so also with some fantastic high detailed troops .
My mission will be finishing of the Hellenic Bif (as it was my first)
Leith , your first task will be the Ptolemaic Hoplites .
I would like to send you the Ptolemaic Bif plate so you can finish it , in doing so we will use the other thread & I will share with you my new cloning technique , eg the 4 standing units (once finished) quickly become the 44 others required on the remaining 11 plates ..................... (pm me & send yr email)
After we both finish our first task , we both get into the Biblical & then the Egyptians , Indians etc etc .
More on these later .
Last edited by dimitrios the samian; 07-08-2016 at 08:32.
FOR FUTURE USE
Nice troops Leith , they would be ideal for a Mod I'd like to do in the future .
I think with a slightly lighter Indian type skin tone we could use them as Late Hellenistic Era Bactrian/Hindu Kush Pikes !!
Put them on ice for a while & we can get back to them again when the time comes .
Last edited by dimitrios the samian; 07-08-2016 at 12:18.
Some nice looking units there, Leith - really spices up the Viking scenario!
ANCIENT: TW
A mod for Medieval:TW (with VI)
Discussion forum thread
Download A Game of Thrones Mod v1.4
FOR FUTURE MODS ..
hmmm , I remember seeing them little blokes on the Middle Earth Mod , I think ?? dwarves ??
There nice Leith , only need "an ankle & 2 kneecaps" to ready them for recruitment
Seriously
Leith those original Hellenics look so clean & spiffy with their grey Thracian styled boots & new hair !! ( more on these later ))
Post the Archer you modified when you get a chance .
cheers
Last edited by dimitrios the samian; 07-09-2016 at 07:44.
Hi dimitrios! Those animations were taken from middle earth tw but I heavily modified them to look good enough. Anyway I don't know which bif you're referring to. Could you point to the exact screenshot ?
Regarding the archer in question,I appear to have lost the file together with many more bifs as a result of buying/selling a new laptop. Don't worry though, they can be replaced.
Last edited by Leith; 07-10-2016 at 13:54. Reason: spelling
In the screen shot where they are fighting with the light blue hellenic unit .... Yes metw have some great bifs ! Including a wild oxen beast being riden ..impressive
UPDATE :
Hello gentlemen , Great news !
I have made some huge progress on my skills .
On my first attempt at just "tidying up the generic Hellenic" Bif unit i made some very basic errors & I continued to compound them .
Those troops were tested by macsen and screenshot posted .
In my efforts to rectify them i had my biggest ha ha moments ! and i swiftly and 100℅ accurately redid the 4 standing angles and all the Archer shooting angles x12 plates followed .
In the coming week i will go on to finish the remaining actions and also draw in the quiver and sword .
By using a combo of both Photoshop and BifReader & some patience , the next lot will be ready a lot quicker & will be much better looking .
I have discovered many simple ways of improving the units we currently use and also bringing in many newly skinned troops that we so desperately need .
I also have created a totally new animation for the Slingers , at present its only one frame (all 12 ) but its fluid & looks really good .
Cheers
Some New Troops for the upcoming Rise of Persia
Last edited by dimitrios the samian; 07-18-2016 at 07:28.
Great news, Dimitrios - I look forward to meeting the new new guys
And don't forget, making basic errors is the best way to learn (I'm beginning to suspect it's the ONLY way )
ANCIENT: TW
A mod for Medieval:TW (with VI)
Discussion forum thread
Download A Game of Thrones Mod v1.4
Hi guys! Your new animations look great, dimitrios! They will fit right in the ROP theme. Thank you for your hard work!
UPDATE
Hello dudes ,
After a slow 2 weeks due to some family commitments
I can resume again at a brisk pace to pickup & finish of not one ..................... but two bif plates !!
I invested the little time I had & worked only on the Ptolemaic African Hoplites .
I unpacked the 12 plates & worked on them on Photoshop , laying out the base coat changing theirexposed skin from Caucasian to negroid .
I still need to repack the bif & run it thru bifreader in motion to add the highlights to the skin & the basic details around the greaves .
Both tricky tasks , but with my confidence & technique much better than I set out these guys will be finished along with the first bif .
So summing up , both at about 80% & I'm looking forward to contributing them to the Ancients Mods .
Last edited by dimitrios the samian; 07-30-2016 at 09:59.
Encouraging news, DtS - more power to your (Photoshop) pen (tool)
ANCIENT: TW
A mod for Medieval:TW (with VI)
Discussion forum thread
Download A Game of Thrones Mod v1.4
You got that right
I'm just free handing at the moment over the top of existing animations , improving some & adding to others
but I have drawn up one new one a "Slinger" , just a roughy & only one angle & far from finished .
We desperately need a Slinger for our Ancient Mods .... be so so nice if we could port an existing one into MTW or have someone with the skills to produce it .
If your keen on Ancient time period let macsen know & you can "beta test" a faction or two .
Last edited by dimitrios the samian; 08-02-2016 at 10:50.
Hi YanBG,
Welcome to our dusty corner of the Org - I saw the new unit you posted in the Alchemists' Lab yesterday, very nicely done
As DtS said, beta-testers are very welcome. That said, I seem to have made so many changes to my 'master' copy, the beta-install is getting a bit old hat now. I think an 'ATW2:EE v1.0' is not far away.....
ANCIENT: TW
A mod for Medieval:TW (with VI)
Discussion forum thread
Download A Game of Thrones Mod v1.4
Quick work Yan .... Well done on your efficiancy .
But it is not showing up correctly for me , seems like his looping on just a few frames , like he is making a table tennis stroke.
Ok about the animation being overhead , in my opinion is what we need , overhead and swinging in air for four or five frames then releasing ! and remember 11.12 and 1 to depict reload .
The slinger we currently have uses up four rectangles also , so a bit and give and take it should fit comfortably on that bif plate .
I know slingers never wore helmets , so just hair for me , hehe , over to you mac .
Last edited by dimitrios the samian; 08-13-2016 at 22:57.
That is a nice animation YanBG
And definitely, no headgear is the way to go.
There are a few issues to address for it to be able to integrate it into Ancient. First off, I can't afford a whole folder just for slingers - as per HTW it needs to be integrated with other units in the one BIF. DtS you have a small misconception there, too - the slinger doesn't use just 4 rectangles - it uses all of them, because they still have to walk, charge, fight die, run etc etc. The HTW BIF with slingers in is the basis for a lot of the 'barbarian' units - to be honest I'm not sure whether the 'slinging' action has dedicated rectangles - it looks the same as the attack with just the weapon changed (plus the addition of the 'reload' pause, of course). For the record, that one BIF supports 14 different units.
My ideal solution would be to add 'slinging' actions to existing BIFs, so that we can have different looking slingers for different factions - that's probably my biggest bugbear with the animations - all the slingers look exactly the same, and there are four different slinger units. And of course they would need to be synchronised with any other missile units in the same BIF so that they all reload and aim in the same frames, because each BIF only has one 'aim.txt' to set the pause.
In any thoughts on new units, it is necessary to remember that Ancient is really rammed with pretty much every possible BIF folder already in use or reserved (eg African hoplites and the 'Biblicals') and I have a long 'to do' list for new units already....
ANCIENT: TW
A mod for Medieval:TW (with VI)
Discussion forum thread
Download A Game of Thrones Mod v1.4
"I can't afford a whole folder just for slingers - as per HTW it needs to be integrated with other units in the one BIF" .
... I understand that mac , how nice it would be if we had Custom 11 to Custom 20
"DtS you have a small misconception there, too - the slinger doesn't use just 4 rectangles - it uses all of them" .
... Mac , I'm glad to report that I have now progressed way beyond that level also
"The HTW BIF with slingers in is the basis for a lot of the 'barbarian' units - to be honest I'm not sure whether the 'slinging' action has dedicated rectangles" .
... it has , I checked that a few weeks ago & also its frame is 9 were the projectile is released , I fully understand that its a valuable heavily used Folder .
"And of course they would need to be synchronised" .
... I am already on to that also , including "the aim txt"
Mac , its nice to know we have room for the new upcoming Bifs I'm working on .
The African Hoplite & the 2 Biblicals .
1st biblical is re-skinned over this barbarian bif , with its Slinger & all other troops it represents , But in new Arabic style !!
2nd biblical is the darker skinned topless Bif currently being used by the Gandharans , I have added the headpiece , some boots & a few touches etc etc , It is used by the Archer & lots more & it is very valuable also .
So with folders scarce , much more thought required on this one and I agree with macsen it would be nice .
....."to add 'slinging' actions to existing BIFs, so that we can have different looking slingers for different factions"
SUMMING UP :
Ok , I have had a good long think about it & I think its best that we proceed on with the Bifs we have at present , like macsen once many many years ago re: the driver " thems the elephant we got , thems the elephants we use "
I do thank you Yan for taking time out & making up this protype to show us . I also apologize for revving you up ( perhaps we best put him on ice now & both focus on other things & down the line he may be used in another mod or scenario etc etc )
I do also thank you macsen for taking the time out to respond in length to this topic about slingers and I apologize also , for the distraction as I know your time is limited & best spent elsewere where its most needed .
cheers to us all here .
........................................................
How nice it would be if Sega or the head honcho's gave us another patch with more folders !
Shall we take a chance & write them a letter & ask ?
Last edited by dimitrios the samian; 08-14-2016 at 04:59. Reason: edited the SUMMING UP
Ah, yes, Dimitrios, the difference another ten folders would make
Talking of elephants, too, I would like about three elephant folders.... but it ain't gonna happen, sadly.... I think the most variety I can squeeze in is to render the one existing elephant at two differnt sizes to represent the Indian and African elephants for the eastern and western successor factions (as appropriate etc etc). Still need to try that out, but it's part of the 'to do' list.
On another front, it struck me that the African hoplites could be done quickly, and the reason is that the graphics are INDEXED. In fact I was so struck by the idea, I tried it out, and it took about an hour or so to get a rough and ready version done. As it was a 'suck it and see' exercise I didn't take as much care as I should have, but it pretty much works, and my 'Aethipioi epilektoi' are now in service to the Ptolemies. They are a bit paler than I wanted, and somewhat blotchy, but that's because I didn't do it precisely enough.
So the method is this:
- Extract all frames from the BIF to BMPs (use the 512x512)
- Open up in Photoshop
- Open up the palette and save the original (use a name like [BIF_H_1].act
- Then you need to use the eyedropper tool ON THE COLOUR TABLE
- Select a patch of skin tone with the eydropper tool - the corresponding indexed colour in the table (and on the BIF) will go transparent
- (This is where I cut corners - I just fiddled straightaway, instead I should have drawn up a list of tones and worked methodically)
- Turn OFF the colour table eye-dropper, then select the transparent table entry with the regular cursor (can't recall if single or double click...) This will bring up the colour selection dialog
- Select a new colour using the sliders, cursor or by entering RGB values
- When it's done, every pixel of skin tone 1, will now be changed to your new skin tone 2
- Repeat until all skin tones have been changed
- Check that no obvious 'non-skin' uses of those colours occur (shields especially - on this more later)
- When you are satisfied with the new skin on your first BMP, SAVE the palette again, to [BIF_H_2].act
- Open up the other 11 BMPs and now LOAD [BIF_H_2].act into them. Their skin will also be transformed instantly.
- IF the shields pick up any original skin tones (one did in my test) then simply copy the shields and weapons section (take the whole width of the BIF to make positioning easier) from a BMP with palette 1, and paste it into the ones with palette 2 - this will re-index the colours in the pasted section to the next nearest, and will get rid of any speckling or blotches.
- Switching between the two palettes will show you the changes more clearly
- Once you have your 12 BMPs, save them at full size, then reduce to 256x256 and save again for the low-resolution versions, then assemble new BIFs with BIF reader as per normal.
The upshot of the method is that you only need to change each colour once, and not for every pixel on every body in every frame
This method should also work for things like reversing the faction colours - but I think you would need to first make the changes, then convert to RGB mode, then back to Indexed mode and re-load the ORIGINAL palette. This would leave the new colours in the right place on the images and the colour indexes in the right place in the palette.
And the whole slinger question is not a distraction, no apologies required, DtS I think Yan's slinging 'action' looks far nicer than the original HTW version. If it could be applied to the existing bodies we have, that would be awesome.
My 'wish list' for slingers would be to add them to:
The 'Indian' BIF
The 'Biblical' BIF*
The 'Thracian' BIF (Duke John's one that I use for Thracian Peltasts, Agrianes and tribal archers etc)
The 'Greek tunic' BIF
and maybe even the 'Armoured Eastern Infantry' BIF (ie the body for Kardakes, Assyrians etc)
However, I appreciate it is a very different process starting a new model from scratch than it is editing an exisitng BIF plate. As I've never looked at the 3D modelling side of things, I have no real grasp on what the tools can achieve. For instance, can Blender (or whatever) 'backload' the BIF plates to reconstitute a 3D model, or is that asking too much of the magical software fairy???
* I just saw that will be in the 'Biblical 1' BIF Just the job for my new Arab Slingers (available only to the Ptolemies and Nabateans in the Successors campaign, sure they'll be worked back into other scenarios later....)
ANCIENT: TW
A mod for Medieval:TW (with VI)
Discussion forum thread
Download A Game of Thrones Mod v1.4
[I]"Talking of elephants, too, I would like about three elephant folders.... but it ain't gonna happen, sadly...... "
Don't be sad mac ! ... It is very do able ... but more thought & experimenting & measuring bifs is required ......
but quickly to excite our palettes , if we separate the elephants from the riders (cloth will go with riders so we have faction colours ) we make enough Elephant Units we can save on folders , ..
eg:1 Bif for Elephant & (hoping)a Bif with 2 crews .... We extract 3 different Elephant Units from 2 Folders .
Now , Let us say we use 2 Folders for Crew giving us 4 Different Crews & the Beast in the other ......
We get 4 different Elephant Units from 3 Folders ......4 from 3 .
Add one more to the mix , so 3 Crew Folders & 1 Elephant Gives us 6 Different Units ! .. 6 from 4
Should be enough ...... perhaps that Armoured front line Beast can become a reality as could an Indian all Archer Unit to rain extra long distance death to its enemies ( for 2017 )
If we can make two types of Elephants we double our variety ....
More thought needed here , but its do-able & if need be to fit it in the bif , we just scale slightly downwards in the bif , then up them in the product file so they are larger on the battlefield .
On another front, it struck me that the African hoplites could be done quickly, and the reason is that the graphics are INDEXED......
Awesome , I just knew that Photoshop had the power to do but I never stumbled on it ! ... nice one !!
In fact I was so struck by the idea, I tried it out, and it took about an hour or so to get a rough and ready version done. As it was a 'suck it and see' exercise I didn't take as much care as I should have, but it pretty much works, and my 'Aethipioi epilektoi' are now in service to the Ptolemies. They are a bit paler than I wanted, and somewhat blotchy, but that's because I didn't do it precisely enough.......
The upshot of the method is that you only need to change each colour once, and not for every pixel on every body in every frame ........
Amen to that !! ...... once instead of ..
Practice & patience will be required to get thrifty on this one .
& I understand the instructions you have written , so with skin we may need to change four or five key colors then step back & look for the rogues & finish off .
No problems with shields & weapons , I make them come & go using the cut & move manoeuvre .
And the whole slinger question is not a distraction, no apologies required, DtS ......
Thnx
I think Yan's slinging 'action' looks far nicer than the original HTW version. If it could be applied to the existing bodies we have, that would be awesome.........
mmmmm , I wonder , it would be so nice , existing bodies & uniforms & scale , but don't think it can be done unfortunately .
As I've never looked at the 3D modelling side of things, I have no real grasp on what the tools can achieve. For instance, can Blender (or whatever) 'backload' the BIF plates to reconstitute a 3D model, or is that asking too much of the magical software fairy???......
I'm only new also as you know & once again it ain't possible (was the first thing I asked Yan) ........
but !! ...I been busy , cutting & pasting , adjusting & splicing & I have a much better Slinger .
Its made from what we have , so it retains the charm & style of the original Hellenics .
I played around today & got one frame done 12x , perfect & 2 hrs .
Its very promising ! ..... & I also have a Rodian staff Slinger that can come true if needed in the Hellenic Deluxe I would like someday .
[/I]
Last edited by dimitrios the samian; 08-15-2016 at 14:58.
That's how all of the work above must be done Yan ! .... unfortunately .
but by cutting & pasting , adjusting angles ( manualy on other plates ) then re-positioning on master plate & also by mixing portions from different frames , a lot is possible .
eg , I mixed a few frames from the waist down & again upwards & I have made new stances & moves .
& this all on that Barbarian Slingers Body , its corrected him from looking like a cricket bowler to a Slinger , but needs some tweaking , its only 1 frame & we need 3 more ......
& btw , I believe the original boys that created it back in 2003 were aiming to get a Staff Slinger from this one !
Anyway ,With some more time , I know I can get the two proper slinging actions (Staff & Rope Sling) from the BifPlates we have (but it will take lots of time ...LOTS ) & he will still be a Barbarian ..... & a bit more again & voila ...
An Hellenic
& now that Macsen has shown us a method to play around with color , our options have increased & time required decreased
Last edited by dimitrios the samian; 08-15-2016 at 15:19.
Re elephants - when I said I wanted three folders, that's for three different mounts: basic, cataphract and semi-cataphract
I'd be surprised if the original HTW 3D models still exist, but if they did.....
Yan, I was thinking of adding an extra action rather than replacing any - that would require so much 'surgery' to all the other units' actionpages and whatnot, I'm sure we'd be debugging it for years. Adding an extra action would just require those new rectangles to be defined in the actionpages for the new units using them.
Now I've had a bit more of a play with the Ptolemies, I've had a chance to get the Aethiopioi epilektoi into the field - here they are, alongside regular Macedonian Pezhetairoi:
and, yes, that Amazigh horseman LBM needs redoing, I dropped the ball somewhere in converting the last batch of unit icons.
ANCIENT: TW
A mod for Medieval:TW (with VI)
Discussion forum thread
Download A Game of Thrones Mod v1.4
Mac ... You mean 3 different Elephants ?
Seriously if we just remain as we are ... its 1 for 1 .
3 Folders with Crew & Elephant combined > Gives us only 3 different Units .............. 4 for 4 etc etc ...
Now !! .... If we separate the two components & yes still only using the one Elephant we have .
SEPERATING ELEPHANT & CREW
3 Folders > Gives us 4 different Units
4 Folders > Gives us 6 different Units ...................... & so on & so on .
I did these 2 pics quickly to illustrate my idea's & check the mounts ..... ( without measuring by eye , two mounts should fit into a Bif )
Not pixel perfect yet !.......(so a bit of freehand around the cloths on the elephant & mounts ) plus a touch up around the ears & the two bifs would be ready to come together .
.... & another idea I have had for a long time now is to use existing horse mounts , slightly modded to suit to sit on these beasts !
About the 3d Model for the Elephant , we don't need it (thank god) what we have is thankfully enough , what we will need is the time to mod the various crews for different factions .
I think setting co-ordinates on the bif plates is not as difficult as it seems .... 14 per plate
If we add the other Elephant so we have both (African & Asian) ....
We do the following to save 100's of hours of time/work .....
It must "just be a re-skin on this Elephants base plate" .
Likewise if we texture it with Armour
All up , It is do-able .
& If we had helpers , it would make it loads quicker .
Last edited by dimitrios the samian; 08-16-2016 at 03:55.
No additional space , just 4 rectangles where our one & only Slinger is & in one folder only .
They were not designers , just modders like us & I'm here working away with Macsen & yes it is hard to find people to help .
Preview Icons are a mix of original MTW , Hellenic TW & Bronze Age plus some of Macsens & perhaps others also .
You mean the Elephant Riders ? yes there clothing looks like pea soup close up , but its ok on the field ...
How close to you get in battle ?
Before you do too much with elephants, consider that the HTW team did something very unusual with cavalry... I'm not sure why, but basically all the HTW cav is made as 'riders', mounted on to a single transparent pixel. It could be because of all the chariot teams they included, using up all the 'horse' folders. Anyway, it confuses matter somewhat...
To be honest I'm not bothered about having different crews - different elephants would be a nice luxury IF we had spare folders, but for now the one elephant in two different scales for Indian and African will suffice. (I tested out the different scales, and it works fine )
As DtS said, some uniticons are from HTW - in the screenshot above, the three on the left are mine, the three (well one, really...) on the right is from HTW. As for slinger actions, well, it should be possible to make some room in some of the BIFs with a bit of juggling.
ANCIENT: TW
A mod for Medieval:TW (with VI)
Discussion forum thread
Download A Game of Thrones Mod v1.4
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