Is Political Arrogance dragging Europe to the Right?

[Greyblades]

The EU, dominated by an elitist political class disconnected from the concerns of they profess to protect, disdainful of any who complain, prone to vindictiveness against those who rebel and less competent than they claim to be.

It's pre revolutionary france's nobility all over again, but a nobility defined not by blood but ideology.

[Sarmatian]

The EU, dominated by an elitist political class disconnected from the concerns of they profess to protect, disdainful of any who complain, prone to vindictiveness against those who rebel and less competent than they claim to be.

It's pre revolutionary france's nobility all over again, but a nobility defined not by blood but ideology.

I've decide to thank every one of your posts in which you're not completely wrong.

Yes - the Brits need to be punished for daring to endanger the EU.

Where in the article did you find that?

[Rhyfelwyr]

Genuine question: Is the political class today any more (or less) elitist than they used to be?

The answer to that must be pretty central to the PVC's (I will still call him that) question.

[Papewaio]

I thought stagnating economies with high youth unemployment might be more closely linked with a lurch to the right.

[Montmorency]

No to the topic question, but the EU leadership definitely shows poor understanding of how to respond to populist sentiment - look at what people were saying even when it was 'just' a financial crisis. The larger problem is that left-wing and internationalist (not the same thing, despite the overlap) elites have overestimated their political capital and spread themselves too thin with too many commitments. For all the complaints against them (the EU here) of overreach, they have consistently limited their policy commitments to the corporate level, seemingly assuming the backing of some underlying populist element to build its influence. Unfortunately, this does not exist as such. Imagine Pythonian peasants in the position of King Arthur - not enough action to back up the words.

Anyway, the topic question is misguided. Political arrogance doesn't understand how to pre-empt the drag to the right. The craftier rightists are very happy to sail in this blind spot until it doesn't matter any longer.

Yes - the Brits need to be punished for daring to endanger the EU.

The EU attempting to obtain favorable outcomes for itself is only punishing Britain in the sense that any exchange or negotiation must punish one party or other. Depends on your economic philosophy, I suppose. Of course they may indeed want and try to punish Britain by using leverage where they have it, but I don't think you should see that as an inherent component of a negotiation.

Interestingly, Merkel looks younger in photos these days than at any time since before the crisis (though I haven't exhaustively compared thousands of photos).

[Husar]

The EU, dominated by an elitist political class disconnected from the concerns of they profess to protect, disdainful of any who complain, prone to vindictiveness against those who rebel and less competent than they claim to be.

That's class-warfare and too simplistic.
A lot of what you say seems to depend on a few popular quotes and some "feelings" while it ignores legislation that helps us all even if not all of it is popular.

I've decide to thank every one of your posts in which you're not completely wrong.

Careful, your elitism might push him to the right and it will be entirely your fault.

Genuine question: Is the political class today any more (or less) elitist than they used to be?

The answer to that must be pretty central to the PVC's (I will still call him that) question.

I don't think so, there is just more media exaggeration, more echo chambers and the likes that blow up the feelings because someone can profit from that. As I said above, the idea that all EU politicians despise the people seems to be based mostly on relatively superficial observations and perhaps a few token laws and regulations.

I thought stagnating economies with high youth unemployment might be more closely linked with a lurch to the right.

Didn't Spain and Greece have a lurch to the left whereas the countries which do not have these problems had the lurch to the right?
At least the lurch to the right seems to be smaller in the troubled countries, my impression is the northerners move more to the right because xenophobia has become more acceptable again or just become more public again. The USA with Trump seem to have a similar movement though and they're not in the EU IIRC. I'm pretty sure Trump has a higher share of the votes than the AfD even.

[Montmorency]

Didn't Spain and Greece have a lurch to the left whereas the countries which do not have these problems had the lurch to the right?
At least the lurch to the right seems to be smaller in the troubled countries, my impression is the northerners move more to the right because xenophobia has become more acceptable again or just become more public again. The USA with Trump seem to have a similar movement though and they're not in the EU IIRC. I'm pretty sure Trump has a higher share of the votes than the AfD even.

Both the left and the right.

Don't think xenophobia has not exploded in Southern Europe. In fact, I would suggest it was higher latently than in the north.

[Husar]

Don't think xenophobia has not exploded in Southern Europe. In fact, I would suggest it was higher latently than in the north.

Quite possible, but then it would just surface instead of anyone making people "go there" i.e. change their views, no?

[Pannonian]

Didn't Spain and Greece have a lurch to the left whereas the countries which do not have these problems had the lurch to the right?
At least the lurch to the right seems to be smaller in the troubled countries, my impression is the northerners move more to the right because xenophobia has become more acceptable again or just become more public again. The USA with Trump seem to have a similar movement though and they're not in the EU IIRC. I'm pretty sure Trump has a higher share of the votes than the AfD even.

There's also been a lurch to the far left on the other side. Corbyn epitomises the far left as described by Orwell back in the late 1940s, and the moderate left, at least within the Labour party, have been displaced by his followers. See the explicit arguments from Idaho and Brenus in this forum that amount to anyone who disagrees is by definition to be dismissed, and it's emblematic of his support, and the antithesis of reasoning moderation. Call it identity crisis or whatever, but it all leads to post-truth politics, where evidence based arguments are ignored in favour of self-reinforcement.

[Greyblades]

I thought this was an interesting thread, but now I'm just gonna say that if we had always gone with the wisdom of the plebs, we'd still be living in caves waiting for "the powerfuls" to bring us new fire.

That's class-warfare and too simplistic.
A lot of what you say seems to depend on a few popular quotes and some "feelings" while it ignores legislation that helps us all even if not all of it is popular.

Is this another husarism or are you reall that hypocritical?

[Husar]

Is this another husarism or are you reall that hypocritical?

Can you explain what is hypocritical about those two statements in your wrong view? They fit perfectly well together.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Genuine question: Is the political class today any more (or less) elitist than they used to be?

The answer to that must be pretty central to the PVC's (I will still call him that) question.

Not much different I would think, in terms of the elitism attitude itself.

However, as the basis for this elitism is ideology rather than the "accident" of birth, it may be even more pernicious.

"L'ancienne regime," sort of always knew they had just lucked out and been expelled from a fortunately "blue-blooded" vaginal opening. They may have dressed it up and claimed divine right and what not, but too many of history's great captains had conquered their way into power -- to become the new blue bloods -- for them not to be aware (in their well-hidden reflective moments) that it was all just a question of holding power (feudalism's number one goal is to keep the peasants in the fields while the lords maintain the power to "protect" them, carefully siphoning off any of the 'wolves' into their men-at-arms to keep the people quiescent).

By contrast, "Le Postmoderne Regime" is based upon having the right 'outlook' on life. In it's way, it can be almost religiously intolerant of unorthodox responses and attitudes to that ideology. I think this quality may make it even more pernicious than many of the other bases for elitism that have sprung up.

Of course, I am something of an apologist for the USA, so perhaps my opinion in this is inherently suspect.