Re: Flat Earthers
I suppose either would be applicable to the flat earth crowd.Originally Posted by Legs
Yet I believe in a divine agent behind creation, even if I do not subscribe to the agency of creation described in the Bible.
In my case, I am a creationist (believe in some aspect of divine agency) but do not subscribe to any of the particulars you associate with the label.
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Re: Flat Earthers
We have long distinguished between creationism and Creationism, the difference being the capital C. Both groups believe in a creator. The difference is in the timespan and how the creation was done. I believe the last pope, a creationist, believed evolution was one of the methods of creation employed by his Lord.
The Capital Cs believe in the literal letter of Genesis: six 24 hour days for the whole creation - mind you, not only the earth – but the entire universe.
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Re: Flat Earthers
What makes you think that 24 hour days are meant?
Re: Flat Earthers
Because that is what Capital Cs believe.
If in doubt go to the first link Husar posted and do the Creationist section on Genesis.
It explains all their beliefs, though "explains" might be the wrong word to use.
Re: Flat Earthers
Most christians know how to take it with a geain of salt, you are being unfair
Re: Flat Earthers
Read post #79 as you appear to be completely lost.
Re: Flat Earthers
The word "day" (as many others in Bible) may be considered to be used metaphorically denoting an epoch of an indefinite duration. For instance, when we say "In his day he was strikingly handsome" we don't mean he was handsome 24 hours. Or "in Shakespeare's day" doesn't mean that he lived 24 hours, or that a particular day of his life is meant. If Bible has an explicit indication that Genesis "day" contains 24 hours, I would like a quote.
Re: Flat Earthers
That works only until you look at the days and compare with known physics:
http://bibleview.org/en/bible/genesis/7days/
Day 1: Day and night
Day 4: Stars, sun and moon
How can there be day and night when there is no sun?
That goes against all physical evidence and I just picked the most striking example for now.
"Topic is tired and needs a nap." - Tosa Inu
Re: Flat Earthers
Perhaps there were other sources of light:
And as they watched, upon the mound there came forth two slender shoots; and silence was over all the world in that hour, nor was there any other sound save the chanting of Yavanna. Under her song the saplings grew and became fair and tail, and came to flower; and thus there awoke in the world the Two Trees of Valinor. Of all things which Yavanna made they have most renown, and about their fate all the tales of the Elder Days are woven.
The one had leaves of dark green that beneath were as shining silver, and from each of his countless flowers a dew of silver light was ever falling, and the earth beneath was dappled with the shadow of his fluttering leaves. The other bore leaves of a young green like the new-opened beech; their edges were of glittering gold. Flowers swung upon her branches in clusters of yellow flame, formed each to a glowing horn that spilled a golden rain upon the ground; and from the blossom of that tree there came forth warmth and a great light. Telperion the one was called in Valinor, and Silpion, and Ninquelótё, and many other names; but Laurelin the other was, and Malinalda, and Culúrien, and many names in song beside.
In seven hours the glory of each tree waxed to full and waned again to naught; and each awoke once more to life an hour before the other ceased to shine. Thus in Valinor twice every day there came a gentle hour of softer light when both trees were faint and their gold and silver beams were mingled. Telperion was the elder of the trees and came first to full stature and to bloom; and that first hour in which he shone, the white glimmer of a silver dawn, the Valar reckoned not into the tale of hours, but named it the Opening Hour, and counted from it the ages of their reign in Valinor. Therefore at the sixth hour of the First Day, and of all the joyful days thereafter, until the Darkening of Valinor, Telperion ceased his time of flower; and at the twelfth hour Laurelin her blossoming. And each day of the Valar in Aman contained twelve hours, and ended with the second mingling of the lights, in which Laurelin was waning but Telperion was waxing. But the light that was spilled from the trees endured long, ere it was taken up into the airs or sank down into the earth; and the dews of Telperion and the rain that fell from Laurelin Varda hoarded in great vats like shining lakes, that were to all the land of the Valar as wells of water and of light. Thus began the Days of the Bliss of Valinor; and thus began also the Count of Time.
(Tolkien J. R. R. The Silmarillion. – Boston: Houghton Mifflin Company, 1977. – 365 p.)
On a more serious note, the light referred to in Genesis might have been sourceless (just like when it it arleady light in the early morning but there's no dawn yet), and later it was embodied into a special container aka the Sun.
Last edited by Gilrandir; 09-28-2016 at 17:32.
Re: Flat Earthers
How can it be time if that's different on another planet when it's dark or light because they can be further away or closer, and have their own rules that don't comply with our 24 hour system we call time. We already know that planets move at different speeds depending on their mass and distance, time is an earth-thingie that says abolutily nothing
Last edited by Fragony; 09-28-2016 at 17:59.
Re: Flat Earthers
Explore the link in post #63. It has all the answers from the Capital C perspective you could possibly wish for.
The whole pont with those creationsts is that day can only mean a day, just like bowl can only mean a bowl.
Last edited by Legs; 09-28-2016 at 17:34.
Re: Flat Earthers
"All the answers" are given by modern interpretationists. They have as much authority to make conclusions about the texts written eons ago as you and me.
Re: Flat Earthers
Not trying to be a prick, but I am pretty sure you know that, but do you have a particulary good reason to devide time in 24 hours.
Let's take that you have a perfectly fine Rolex. Instead of waiting for 6'aclock you dive straight to twelve and save some hours but that is just perception. Does anything change (except having to buy a new watch) or did you make a shortcut and really skipped 6 hours, or just your percetion of time
Last edited by Fragony; 09-28-2016 at 14:43.
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