Org Promotion

[Monk]

Lets not.... Because.... Without a serious index for all TW-games in place, not much else suggested here will actually matter or have much effect anyhow. This is especially true long term. Its not about some damn short-term fix but to actually make this place relevant and active again. The site needs an index that actually allows and enables that. Again, it all starts with the index... So, lets start where it matters the most - the beginning. You don't start in the middle and worry about the foundation later, now do you? Same thing applies here.

- A

i heartily agree. if you'd like to improve the site then lets focus on bringing what people we already have together.

I see a lot of names, some old, and some new, and id love to talk about total war, video games and what have you with everyone here! But i feel like everyone is in one or two small places around the site and its difficult to start a conversation. I think the best way to improve the site is to bring the members who are here right now closer together.

[Gregoshi]

id love to talk about total war...

What do we want to talk about? If there is something we want discuss, we need to start a thread. Or we need to find a new thread and join in the discussion - especially if it was started by an new patron and definitely if they are new to the TW games. We need to engage them and draw upon our experiences to help them. Their excitement with discovering a new game might just re-ignite our passion for it as well. We all want to talk TW like in the good old days, but we seem to have stopped making the effort to do so. Discussions just don't happen. We have to contribute, because in the beginning, that is why the Org was so good. We had exceptional, in-depth and lively discussions. The Org didn't write articles, have contests (or not many), or other such manufactured content. The Org's content was from us, the patrons. Be it inter-clan banter, strategy and tactical discussions, game mechanics analysis, AARs, guides and mods, we the patrons did it for the love of the games.

Of course, back then, things were simple in that there were only a couple of TW games and we were intensely focused on those games. Today we have about 10 TW games covering a variety to eras that may or may not be our personal cup of tea. Add to that an evolution/revolution of the TW game systems which not all of us have been fond of. This leaves us with a huge index (had to mention that) and a shrinking patron-base that is further diluted by such a broad spectrum of games. Such is our current predicament.

I've already ventured into the realm of tl;dr so I'll wrap it up. The Org staff can do some things with tools at our disposal. However, the Org staff did not make the Org great. The patrons made the Org great. So, are we up for the challenge to begin the climb back to our former glory? Um, that is, after the index gets fixed, of course.

[Tuuvi]

I wonder how much of the Org's failure to attract new members in more recent years has to do with the rise of Reddit. Because Reddit has such a big user base and hundreds of different subreddits I wouldn't be surprised if people go straight to Reddit when they're looking for an online community instead of trying to find a dedicated fan site.

I think traditional forums like this one are better for long winded, in-depth discussions because the Reddit format makes checking back on old threads a pain in the ass but Reddit has an advantage over us because it's more popular and it's a one-stop shop. The Org is like a small business getting out-competed by Wal-Mart.

[edyzmedieval]

Lets not.... Because.... Without a serious index for all TW-games in place, not much else suggested here will actually matter or have much effect anyhow. This is especially true long term. Its not about some damn short-term fix but to actually make this place relevant and active again. The site needs an index that actually allows and enables that. Again, it all starts with the index... So, lets start where it matters the most - the beginning. You don't start in the middle and worry about the foundation later, now do you? Same thing applies here.

- A

Ax, I'm referring to the fact that the index problem, the mods know about it and you have explained it in depth already. What I wanted to say is that, apart from the index problem, which will be needed to be solved, let's think of other ideas ON TOP of the index problem.

The index doesn't alone solve the membership problems if we do not have the members.

[Axalon]

i heartily agree. if you'd like to improve the site then lets focus on bringing what people we already have together.

Its a fine sentiment in general and all, but have a quote...

...thinking in terms of “Org-community” as one supposed homogenous “team”/group - its not. Or even views the TW-community as a homogenous group of people - its not. These notions are just inadequate, obsolete and lazy oversimplifications that we could do without. As it is, both are highly heterogeneous, and get increasingly so, for each and every new game-release and year. The very idea of a TW-community might have functioned - well enough - back in 2000-2005, but it does not in 2016. Same thing applies to the “Org-community”…

There are so many and different TW-games these days that they no longer can seriously serve as a common enough ground to build a sense of actual community around, its merely a poor and lazy catch-phrase to cover it all. That role has been effectively transferred to each individual game or activity (of choice). The games are different, and so are the people that play them. Some folks prefer TW-X while others are totally into TW-Y yet both are dubbed TW-games. Management has completely failed to consider, let alone act on this. And TW-X will always serve as a much stronger force of generating a sense community because it provides much more common ground between its players then the umbrella-concept of TW ever will.

The reality here is that we have micro-communities, clustered around a single game or activity (of choice) - and that we will continue get more and more of these, as more games are released. Its also possible that individual might select to be active in more then one micro-community at a time, but we can not, and should not force it. Regardless, management has failed to grasp any of this, and as result done nothing as to adjust this site to this reality. And I can guarantee that recognizing and adapting fully to the concept of micro-communities will somehow be required element in order to secure that “win” for this place. Most visitors come here for the games, specific games and/or activities. If this place can not attractively enough cater too and offer sexy enough stomping grounds for that, it will lose that visitor. ...As is exactly what has happened here.

Now… If a micro-community is sacrificed or forced somehow as to serve a sites general “super-community” at large - for whatever end - I will always be against it. To me, its plain wrong, and it will eventually kill this (or any) sites chances to seriously compete and grow, long term for sure. Rather, think in terms of what serves each micro-communities the best and first, and a sites general super-community second. If you manage to do that, you will have won a great victory right there and then for this site, long term. Working with the micro-communities is the way forward, working against or forcing them somehow to conform to externally motivated or serving goals (regardless the kind), is not. Every game obviously have a micro-community somehow, think rather in terms of what serves every such specific micro-community the best and individually, and this place will probably prosper somehow (in general). Thinking only and typically in terms of a general site super-community and it probably won't... That's my analysis. And so far, I have seen little that would suggest otherwise. (And this is not me saying that all super-community efforts should be abandoned on principle - just be cautious and careful with that stuff.)

- A

[Axalon]

On one interesting note, Axalon's fix is undoing edyzmedieval's fix for Warhammer: Total War. Instead of having empty/quiet forums within a game section, Avalon is suggesting they be on the main index, bloating it with sub-forums that receive next to no use.

Maybe I’m reading you all wrong, but you look at this “Axalon-fix” with a short-term-only perspective - expand your perspective. The suggestions on that was devised with a long-term perspective and general competitiveness in mind, not short-term fixes and cosiness. A section that might be empty to today, need not necessarily stay that way forever, or be true for tomorrow. That is - IF - we can bother too offer/build up attractive enough settings for each game, ready for instant use - whenever the chance comes. My drafted model enables such instant use, it enables the possibility for people to start building up a section and micro-community there - whenever they like too - simply by the generous infrastructure offered there - generous enough to be seriously hard to pass on. Which is basically the whole point. Generating activity and interest by advantageous, attractive, and overtly dedicated settings - effectively competing. This regardless the game. That in turn drastically increases the sites overall chances of hitting home for every visitor that comes here, regardless of her preferences. If we got all games covered with equal measure, we will hit home be sheer default… The overall chance for him/her staying here increases big time - "this place have all I need, are interested in and more... The other sites don't have all that, like this, or as visible..." And you basically hooked yourself another interested member, willing to stick around some more, possibly posting here as well. That’s the general idea with my draft…

The "Edyz-fix" (on warhammer) does hardly afford any of that. It does not even consider such things as it its only focuses on short term cosiness and goals. While long term, its actually crippling/damaging a section to serve some short-term-only supposed cosy feeling. Why? It disables the sections chances to grow and compete with other sites counterparts - simply because it does not afford or allow attractive enough settings for people interested in that game (Warhammer in this case). It bunches up things, it decreases index-visibility and overview on what’s happening in that area. The very stuff that makes it less competitive with other sites, structurally speaking. As people will and can get better settings and infrastructure elsewhere, they will naturally will go there, instead of here. As long as this place can offer generous settings for TW-game1, it got a chance to grow and compete. Failing that, this place end up with no chance in that particular game. That's the difference here between the two “fixes”. A chance (somehow) for growth, or no (or disabled) chance for growth.

And yes, this do come at the price that the index will be larger, this is true - if implemented. Then again, a larger index is a small and easy price to pay as to increase this sites chances for survival - I think anyways. Bunching stuff together (especially things that do not naturally belong together) to make short term gains in "cosy", typically means slow death in general.

Speaking of popular forums which use a similar layout, there is Paradoxplaza which the structure of that was originally inspired from, as it provided an area for people to contribute in general, then specific sub-forums for dedicated space.

I can only speak for myself, and… That (Paradoxplaza) layout just suck, even for such games, hell for any games. Personally, I would eagerly go elsewhere if I was presented a choice. In terms of TW, as long as the TWC exists, that's probably the place where I would go, as most folk already have. Much for the same reasons I would imagine. I'll take that superior TWC-index any day over that poor Paradox-index layout.

This kept the game community more unified opposed to more spread out.

I don’t buy that a sites general super-community is a healthy or viable way of approaching things or a much useful perspective anywhere actually - or how to successfully construct a strong and flexible index for that matter. That Paradox-layout essentially serve as a warning example of what we should NOT do. Its riddled with flaws, failures and short-comings. And as long as the TWC exists, this place have little choice but to compete on those terms (thank god for the TWC!), as it simply kills any such layout all over. It outshines and outdoes it in every turn, making it plain irrelevant. As is essentially what have happened to this site.

Just read post:65 again… And think over what I am trying to say there about micro-communities…

The other suggestion was simply reversing the order the games were presented in, so older games at the top and newer games at the bottom. If this 'fix' was really so clear-cut, I would have done it already. But honesty, that change will have no impact on anything.

Not entirely true… What I actually did do in that draft, was to use a chronological order in my forwarded index-draft as I had only two rational options to go with - chronological or reversed chronological order. I selected the former as that is the one most rarely used in various TW-forums thus far. A chronological order would (at least in a small way help) set this place apart more then just doing what everyone else already does (using a reversed chronological order) - while still remaining perfectly easy to understand and follow all the same. In truth it makes little difference to me personally which order is used of the two, but I think I prefer the chronological one, myself.

Regardless, it will have impact on the site somehow, and there is zero doubt about it. So declaring that it “will have no impact on anything.” - is simply untrue (or BS, whatever you prefer). Obviously it will set this place apart from the rest – as already mentioned. It would also make the short-term supposed "Warhammer-problem" with inactive/unused sub-sections/forums disappear all the way down to the bottom of the index - short term anyways. Long term that should not matter much, if all things are properly set up (for Warhammer that is). Thirdly, and this is the most significant part (I think), as it is, short term, the MTW1-section and the RTW1-section are both probably among the top3 strongest/most active micro-(TW-)communities on this site at this point - why should these folks have their games placed near the bottom of a site, when that very site is clearly screaming for activity? These sections are more active then essentially everything else TW-wise, especially if we include mods in that. Makes little sense right? A chronological order would actually handle that more effectively then a reversed order would, as the latter places (almost) all and (currently) less active TW-games ahead of these two.

So... It certainly can have an impact on something for this site - that is - if we bother to examine things seriously enough. The "no impact on anything"-notion is without substance and its untrue. It will clearly have an impact on something, if applied on this site, there is little doubt about that. It would be very good news for RTW1 and MTW1, if implemented, that much is clear... It would also be bad news for Attila and RTW2, that much is also clear. So, it will have impact, alright...

I have made minor changes to the index, and elsewhere based on posts in here already, it is part of the practice of adapting and reacting to feedback.

Again, it’s the big changes that this place really needs, the sooner you get on that, the better.
I have already helped you with a basic draft. I will try to help you some more - if you let me.

- A

[Axalon]

Ax, I'm referring to the fact that the index problem, the mods know about it and you have explained it in depth already. What I wanted to say is that, apart from the index problem, which will be needed to be solved, let's think of other ideas ON TOP of the index problem.

The index doesn't alone solve the membership problems if we do not have the members.

Naturally, and for the time being, I’ll leave all that to you, as I am hardly opposed to any of that… Hopefully, I will get to that point as well, once I can see that the index is actually happening in a satisfactory and sensible fashion. And, once the STW1 and MTW1-sections are decent and presentable enough too (my fave games) - I’ll join you (and others) on that note - but I am simply not there yet. As for all the other TW-games, I’ll generally and gladly leave that to the folks that know that stuff and such details better then I do. I’m sure there are folk ready to step up for their fave game here – whatever that may be…

Edyz, if you want/prefer to call for a thread-
split or something, I will not fight you for it.

- A

[Axalon]

What do we want to talk about? If there is something we want discuss, we need to start a thread. Or we need to find a new thread and join in the discussion - especially if it was started by an new patron and definitely if they are new to the TW games. We need to engage them and draw upon our experiences to help them. Their excitement with discovering a new game might just re-ignite our passion for it as well. We all want to talk TW like in the good old days, but we seem to have stopped making the effort to do so. Discussions just don't happen. We have to contribute, because in the beginning, that is why the Org was so good. We had exceptional, in-depth and lively discussions.

This part, I like…

The Org didn't write articles, have contests (or not many), or other such manufactured content. The Org's content was from us, the patrons. Be it inter-clan banter, strategy and tactical discussions, game mechanics analysis, AARs, guides and mods, we the patrons did it for the love of the games.

This part not so much… And I would definitely say that these notions are, and certainly was, part of the overall problem. Manufactured content, will generate interest somehow, somewhere. Fleeting chatter that do not lend itself for any kind of third party use later on – not so much…

Of course, back then, things were simple in that there were only a couple of TW games and we were intensely focused on those games. Today we have about 10 TW games covering a variety to eras that may or may not be our personal cup of tea. Add to that an evolution/revolution of the TW game systems which not all of us have been fond of. This leaves us with a huge index (had to mention that) and a shrinking patron-base that is further diluted by such a broad spectrum of games. Such is our current predicament.

All this is true, and I think you should take it to the next level – recognize, accept and respect the micro-communities as that is part of what needs to be done here. After all, that is the kind of future we can expect, regardless if we may like it or not. I will also comment on your index-remark – of course. That huge index you talk about is a rather small necessity as to ensure that this place can compete and thus survive. Its virtual space, it’s a small price to pay for keeping this site (alive)…. I would think… There, I had to mention that… :)

The Org staff can do some things with tools at our disposal. However, the Org staff did not make the Org great. The patrons made the Org great. So, are we up for the challenge to begin the climb back to our former glory? Um, that is, after the index gets fixed, of course.

Even if that is supposedly true back in 2000-2005, you can be very sure that you guys in staff/management will have too be great in your own right in 2016 - in order for this site to get another chance at “glory”. Like it or not, you are a part of the solution, an active part, not passive. I suggest you consider increasing your manpower as to deal with that reality (if at all possible, double up on moderators or something). And the sooner you realize this, the better… My take on this...

Um, that is, after the index gets fixed, of course.

Of course… Lets make it happen then, shall we? :)

- A

[Axalon]

I wonder how much of the Org's failure to attract new members in more recent years has to do with the rise of Reddit. Because Reddit has such a big user base and hundreds of different subreddits I wouldn't be surprised if people go straight to Reddit when they're looking for an online community instead of trying to find a dedicated fan site.

I think the "internetz" has room for both... And it probably serves different kind of needs (I would imagine). Personally, I have not even bother with or explored Reddit at all... That's just me...

I think traditional forums like this one are better for long winded, in-depth discussions...

Quite possibly... Still there is room for both, I would think... We can be certain that the near monopoly this site had TW-wise around 2000 will never come back, and therefore it needs adjust and act accordingly. Adapt and overcome essentially. Besides, I love them "long winded, in-depth discussions"... Especially so on my fave games - that's basically what I am in business for! (More or less anyways.) The Whole "TLDR"-routine, is just a poor excuse for not making an real effort, or lacking the talent for it to begin with - this on general terms, of course. I have never really seen the supposed value of that thing. Sorry all you "TLDR"-believers - you are just a bunch of lazy, untalented and worthless bums or some such along those lines... :) A bit more seriously, this is a text-based forum, if "you" can't bother yourself to read and write more then a few words - what the hell are you doing here?!? ...Out of all places? ...You know?

The Org is like a small business getting out-competed by Wal-Mart.

True up to a point... That is if this site fails to adapt and specialize... Obviously it will be essentially futile to even try to compete on "Wal-Marts" own strong points... Another lesson that the staff here needs to recognize and deal with (if not done already).

- A

[Monk]

What do we want to talk about?

Thats all you focused on in the two posts i made? Dude

I dont want to start a discussion with myself. Everyone is off in their own hidey holes and the main forums are a ghost town with 1 or 2 folks checking them. Visible activity breeds the desire to join in, and this site's biggest problem is I can't see activity. I know there are people here, i just don't know where to look.

What do we want to talk about? If there is something we want discuss, we need to start a thread. Or we need to find a new thread and join in the discussion - especially if it was started by an new patron and definitely if they are new to the TW games. We need to engage them and draw upon our experiences to help them. Their excitement with discovering a new game might just re-ignite our passion for it as well. We all want to talk TW like in the good old days, but we seem to have stopped making the effort to do so. Discussions just don't happen. We have to contribute, because in the beginning, that is why the Org was so good. We had exceptional, in-depth and lively discussions. The Org didn't write articles, have contests (or not many), or other such manufactured content. The Org's content was from us, the patrons. Be it inter-clan banter, strategy and tactical discussions, game mechanics analysis, AARs, guides and mods, we the patrons did it for the love of the games.

I know. Froggy, Ludens and I made the Mead Hall. If you want to be technical, i think tosa or Ser Clegane made it. But it was our continued creative efforts that made people think "hey maybe there's a need for a place like this" I know what goes into making content for a website. I ran contents. I made avatars. the one you're using. I'm fully aware of what makes a community work..

[edyzmedieval]

I'm fine with keeping the suggestions in this thread - we need to make this thread always on, pulsating and always getting the attention it needs, because we're really lacking here at the Org in activity and threads like this always provide attention.

That being said, let's look at our options...

• Index (short-term) - my short term fix was to put the Warhammer sections into one bigger one, and Beskar kindly put it into practice. Warhammer does not get attention at the Org, most of our patrons are focused on historical TW, and having that empty part would just scare people away, particularly new patrons. It was a proposal aimed at making the place cosier and more inviting. We can have similar ideas on other sections as well.
• Index (long-term) - clearly, the index needs some revamping. It needs to make sure that new patrons are kindly invited to contribute, older patrons are active on the website and making sure that the most popular sections get the necessary attention but also not too much that would take away attention from the less popular sections. Axalon has provided ideas, and while we did agree on a revamped forum index some time ago, it needs improvement.
• Attracting new patrons - a ton of lurkers, a ton of viewers, but few posters. We need to attract more patrons and to entice them to enlist to the Org. Suggestions in the previous posts
• Up the discussion levels - not enough discussions. We need to ensure more engagement from our patrons, both old and new.
• Ensure Org content - TWC produces a ton of it's own content, which means that people are always engaged with TWC in itself, rather than just TW. I'm sure that Org patrons produce their own content, we need to invite them to submit their own work for the Org, if they would kindly accept.
• Promotion of Org content - Similar to the point above. Very recent case in point - Macsen Rufus MTW Mod Tools Package. Promote this, ensure that people come here for this.

What everyone needs to consider, in my opinion, is that the next historical TW is right around the corner. In the next 6-9 months the announcement will come.

And this place needs to be ready.

[Gregoshi]

Thats all you focused on in the two posts i made? Dude

My post was directed at the Org community as a whole (self included), hence I used "we" rather than "you". Your comment about wanting to talk about TW was a convenient prompting point for what I wanted to say. No offense was intended. I'm sorry that offense was taken.

[edyzmedieval]

Fire those ideas!

And provide feedback on those posted above.

[Monk]

My post was directed at the Org community as a whole (self included), hence I used "we" rather than "you". Your comment about wanting to talk about TW was a convenient prompting point for what I wanted to say. No offense was intended. I'm sorry that offense was taken.

oh, makes sense. no worries amigo!

[Crandar]

From my experience, the best way to lure CA reps is to post something very negative about the games, which is though factually wrong, due to a minor, insignificant technicality.
Then, hilarity ensues.

But it doesn't really matter, everything is in the decline, even their official playground, as the future is reddit. Maybe the future of the future will again be a nice, traditional forum.
I think the best way to succeed is to find out why twcenter became more popular than .org and then try to reverse the past, by faithfully copying it.

[Mouzafphaerre]

LET'S MAKE ORG GREAT AGAIN!!!


Sorry just had to do that!

Ahem...now...

the future is reddit. Maybe the future of the future will again be a nice, traditional forum.

It may very well be so, and not only on the social mass-media vs. independent websites ground. For instance, despite the apparent trend of mobile devices' ever increasing market share (measured from OS usage, IOS/Android vs. Win/Linux et al) I don't believe that, for hardcore (or even semi-hardcore) gamers, mobile will ever be an alternative (let alone the next platform); nor will the species of hardcore (or semi-hardcore) gamer will ever go extinct.

I support an index revamp, without letting go any of the subfora but rather more compactly organizing the existing ones.

Beyond that, I doubt much can be done. It's merely a wild guess but I think the overall population of the more recent TW titles are predominantly of the younger internet generation born into social mass-media. I suspect quite a few of them even don't know what a forum is Indeed, we as old farts deliberately use forum lingo on Twitter to crush the young vermin with holy agism

In a different way the above is also valid for the older TW titles' fanbase still playing their games actively or on an on/off manner. Since I can only speak with certainty for myself, let me take me as an example, though how much of an archetype I can make is debatable I watch whenever EBII release a new build, fire up my MiNO (known to the clueless youth as Medieval 2 TW) and play it to death, reading and posting at both their ORG and TWC subfora, revamping my never completed minor tweak attempts.

I played Shogun 2 for a few hours, enjoyed the novelty of naval combat for a while, then simply deleted it. Glad I hadn't bought it (come and get the evil pirate CA!!). When R2 was on the horizon it was laughing stock for ancient historians/enthusiasts who were also gamers/interested in gaming. Never turned and looked at any other TW title again. OTOH I recently re-bought a MTW/VI on Humblebundle and planning to do the same for Rome/BI sometime.

For my grand strategy needs (other than EB and recently IB on MiNO) I play EUIV, despite the complete lack of battle maps. CA (actually Sega) made a choice, which several other mega-corpos did and catered to the ever passing yet ever replenishing ultra-pop youth. Anyway, I digress. Old timers come back for old times' and fellow old timers' sake. I don't think you can attract many (if not most) of them by promoting the newest shiniest CA toy.

tl/dr; Some spicing up would be nice but I don't think we need worry ourselves too much with an ORG revival. In the end, there's also the risk of getting something revived at the cost of good old ORG.

[Tuuvi]

I think the "internetz" has room for both... And it probably serves different kind of needs (I would imagine). Personally, I have not even bother with or explored Reddit at all... That's just me...



Quite possibly... Still there is room for both, I would think... We can be certain that the near monopoly this site had TW-wise around 2000 will never come back, and therefore it needs adjust and act accordingly. Adapt and overcome essentially. Besides, I love them "long winded, in-depth discussions"... Especially so on my fave games - that's basically what I am in business for! (More or less anyways.) The Whole "TLDR"-routine, is just a poor excuse for not making an real effort, or lacking the talent for it to begin with - this on general terms, of course. I have never really seen the supposed value of that thing. Sorry all you "TLDR"-believers - you are just a bunch of lazy, untalented and worthless bums or some such along those lines... :) A bit more seriously, this is a text-based forum, if "you" can't bother yourself to read and write more then a few words - what the hell are you doing here?!? ...Out of all places? ...You know?



True up to a point... That is if this site fails to adapt and specialize... Obviously it will be essentially futile to even try to compete on "Wal-Marts" own strong points... Another lesson that the staff here needs to recognize and deal with (if not done already).

- A

I agree with your points, personally I dislike reddit's nested comment system and karma scoring and I like the way conversation flows on old fashioned forums like this one much better. I don't think reddit is superior to the Org in every way, I just speculate that when newcomers to Total War are looking for an online community they're going to reddit instead of here, which is a factor in this site's decline.

[edyzmedieval]

Alright, so we do have a couple of members who support the revamping of the index fora. How do proceed further with this? How do we discuss with the whole community site-wide about this?

Idea - In anticipation of the new Total War, historical TW title, we could do the following - contact CA and ask for a relative time frame that can be shared only with forum elders, in order to keep the secrecy. Based on that relative timeframe, the admins and mods of the Org can work with us to ensure a new "look" and strategy for the Org in anticipation of the new TW release.

Thoughts?

[ReluctantSamurai]

Alright, so we do have a couple of members who support the revamping of the index fora. How do proceed further with this? How do we discuss with the whole community site-wide about this?

As with any worthwhile endeavor, a plan should be laid down. Making changes without a specific purpose in mind rarely leads to success. Having said that, it's obvious that two events need to happen: a) the need to attract, and keep new members; b) the need to get current members not active to want to participate again. I think the latter is just as important as the former because currently less than 1% of our registered membership post here (I'd still be curious as to why that is)

The Org will never be like it was in the early 2000's when it was the big dog on the block. Times have changed. But it would be refreshing, at the least, to see us have a posting day like 18 Jan 2011 when there were 681 members online and participating somewhere on the Org.

[edyzmedieval]

Getting back to the 2000's is a big task.

However, given that the excitement of a new historical TW will greatly interest many people, especially those who have played TW for the first time because of Warhammer, we can get to very good levels of membership.

So - how do we proceed?

[Monk]

Idea - In anticipation of the new Total War, historical TW title, we could do the following - contact CA and ask for a relative time frame that can be shared only with forum elders, in order to keep the secrecy. Based on that relative timeframe, the admins and mods of the Org can work with us to ensure a new "look" and strategy for the Org in anticipation of the new TW release.

Thoughts?

Getting back to the 2000's is a big task.

However, given that the excitement of a new historical TW will greatly interest many people, especially those who have played TW for the first time because of Warhammer, we can get to very good levels of membership.

So - how do we proceed?

I think the CA discussion should be shelved for now. Especially while posts like this are okay and stay up: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...post2053714727

i believe our energy would be best focused inward.

[Axalon]

So - how do we proceed?

Short-term index-wise... First of all...

Decide if we shall use/have a...

• Chronological order of TW-games (first game first - STW1) or...
• Reversed-chronological order (last game first - WaTW or possibly AtTW) of the same (this is the most commonly used).

Either we set up a poll, or a thread or something whatever were folks can declare which order they prefer (it could be here too, if folks like). We could set a dead-line for a week (or something), and the order that got the most support wins = gets applied. After that is decided (in whatever fashion)... Start applying the basic model (below) to every game and sort out the details on specific sub-fora later and continuously restructure such things later if the need arises, or clearly warranted and/or advantageous etc. etc. For now sort them in the place that they arguably belongs the most...

All off-topic stuff could for instance temporarily be sorted in 1 section during the transition (or permanently), placed wherever (yeah, I don't really care). That can be sorted out later - its clearly secondary to the actual purpose of this site, after all. And, it should not be allowed to serve as yet another excuse to delay this process any further... We have waited for too long on this as it is. Org-central/administration section can be placed first on the index (which makes solid sense). Then we go...


TW-game1 - section (individual)
-General Area & Discussion (sub-section)
-- Multiplayer (sub-fora)
--Whatever sub-fora it needs/has, max 6 (If any)
-Modding Area & Discussion
--Whatever sub-fora it needs/has, max 6 (If any)
-Hosted Mod (if any. Sub-section omitted otherwise)
--Whatever sub-fora it needs/has, max 6 (If any)
-Tech Help Area (sub-section)
--whatever sub-fora it needs, max 6 (If any)

TW-game2 - section (individual)
-General Area & Discussion (sub-section)
-- Multiplayer (sub-fora)
--Whatever sub-fora it needs/has, max 6 (If any)
-Modding Area & Discussion
--Whatever sub-fora it needs/has, max 6 (If any)
-Hosted Mod (if any. Sub-section omitted otherwise)
--Whatever sub-fora it needs/has, max 6 (If any)
-Tech Help Area
--whatever sub-fora it needs, max 6 (If any)

Etc. etc. until we run out of TW-games... (and yeah, Arena is out by default.)

Then, whatever else... Off-topic stuff or something.

Then, end of index. Essentially done...

***


Then, all the fine-tuning begins.... Now you guys can bicker about the details
of sub-fora left and right etc. Names on stuff etc. If so desired.... Besides it
will be much easier to spot such things at this stage and to discuss it....

Some general definitions that can come in handy here:
********************************************
Hosted mod = Generally active (somehow) and/or actively supported, and recognized as such. All other mods not recognized as such should be sorted differently. As in...

Functional mod = A functional and playable mod - it can be played to reasonable extents by a third party, it works - yet formally abandoned and/or unsupported. Sorted as such in a specific sub-fora as per relevant game. Or...

Incomplete mod = A non-functional and unfinished mod - it can not be played to reasonable extents by a third party, it do not work/start - formally abandoned. Sorted as such in a specific sub-fora as per relevant game.

This is to cut down the horde of abandoned (possibly functional or non-functional) stuff for especially RTW1 and MTW2 on the index, and also some stuff for other games too MTW1 and ETW etc. Sorted as per the definitions above. Relocate it all into a suitable sub-fora under the "Modding Area & Discussion"-subsection as per TW-game. Such places could be called "Playable mods archive/library" or something. "Mods cemetary/junkyard - incomplete ad non-functional mods" or some such...

That's all I can think of on this note, for the moment...

- A

[Axalon]

That being said, let's look at our options...

I'll get to commenting this stuff eventually... I hope... In general, it wouldn't hurt if folks here could help Edyz with
additional ideas or something, or at least commenting on that and other stuff already brought to "the table" here.

Remember folks, with zero input/effort follows as much output/results - yup, zero... Every time....

- A

[AntiDamascus]

I may be the minority but but holy crap would a ton of forums and sub-forums for each game would annoy me to no end. I have almost all the TW games but I don't see what that would accomplish other that spread out low activity even more. To tell the truth I would come here more for the sense of community and second for the TW info. I can get a lot of that info almost anywhere in the low case I want up to date info on Rome 1 (not likely). The reason I keep fading out is because the places that were busy for me (The Backroom) were/are borderline toxic.

[Axalon]

I may be the minority but but holy crap would a ton of forums and sub-forums for each game would annoy me to no end. I have almost all the TW games but I don't see what that would accomplish other that spread out low activity even more. To tell the truth I would come here more for the sense of community and second for the TW info. I can get a lot of that info almost anywhere in the low case I want up to date info on Rome 1 (not likely). The reason I keep fading out is because the places that were busy for me (The Backroom) were/are borderline toxic.

Oh for **** sake, another... In short... We have tried your damned way already, and it did not work.
It has ended up in a ******* disaster for the site. There are less people active here then ever. It has
ended up that way BECAUSE the likes of you have had it your way.


Additional text, for the interested:

There is difference between us... The things I strive for, ALLOWS you ALL your backroom and off-topic blabla while still ALSO provides me with the things I am interested in full. Everyone essentially gets what they actually want, it enables and affords that for all, as we then CAN tailor that index just as we like - you can implode all TW-sections to the stone-age if you like, its your headache... Now, the thing you strive for essentially robs me of the stuff that I am actually interested in, by dismantling it down to dysfunctional and ridiculous levels (as is also reflected in the current traffic-levels), while it ONLY provides you with what you are interested in full. See the difference? Its a huge one, and it annoys the hell out of me, that I have to explain this to the likes of you.

I will ALWAYS be against what you advocate as it simply does not afford me, or my interests, in its results - and it kills the site in general as well, as if the first circumstance was not sufficiently bad enough on its own. It don't get any better by the fact that the place is actually called "totalwar.org" and not "privatesocialclub.org". And, if it had been the latter, then you may have had a case - but as it is, you don't - as its still called "totalwar.org", and providing sections for all TW-games on such a site is natural. The fact that site-management dismantled them all in the first place - much for the likes of you - now that certainly is unnatural for a site like this one... And obviously, this site has paid accordingly for that.

- A

[AntiDamascus]

It's not a matter of removing the names or the games or whatever you assumed I have suggested (which was nothing by the way). I'm just stating that, in my opinion, setting up nice structures for the games and modding and whatnot will not bring in new people and will likely just showcase how dead it is. The whole point is lack of activity isn't it? I guess I just don't know why that plan does anything but make you happy. Not that I'm against making you happy but this really just seems like "You'll be happy with whatever, I'll be happy with my plan, so do my plan"

I mean I am trying to give my honest opinion here because I would assume I am the person you are trying to attract to the site. People interested in TW games? Or are you only looking for people who come to talk about TW and only TW in neatly defined boxes? I guess it's just funny that I'm reading this almost as if I'm not a TW fan and just some guy looking to chat on a random forum. I have all these games, I LIKE these games (most of them) but I don't think Rome 1 modding discussion forum is going to haul all the kids in to play.

I don't claim to have the perfect idea to fix this but if you think a forum specific revival in 2016 will bring in the views, I am going to have to disagree.

[ReluctantSamurai]

I'm just stating that, in my opinion, setting up nice structures for the games and modding and whatnot will not bring in new people and will likely just showcase how dead it is.

You have to see it from a first-time (or long-time, for that matter) viewer/lurker. As Ax states, we are TotalWar.Org, and as such, the primary focus should be on the games. Off-topic discussions like the Frontroom/Backroom should be a welcome diversion for those who want it. Unfortunately those roles are reversed, and the games have become just a side note, while the discussion forums are the main hangout. Might as well change the name to Louie's Bar & Grill

The facts speak for themselves...when discussion focused on the games was thriving, so did the Org. As the focus on the games has faded....so has the Org.

[AntiDamascus]

You have to see it from a first-time (or long-time, for that matter) viewer/lurker. As Ax states, we are TotalWar.Org, and as such, the primary focus should be on the games. Off-topic discussions like the Frontroom/Backroom should be a welcome diversion for those who want it. Unfortunately those roles are reversed, and the games have become just a side note, while the discussion forums are the main hangout. Might as well change the name to Louie's Bar & Grill

The facts speak for themselves...when discussion focused on the games was thriving, so did the Org. As the focus on the games has faded....so has the Org.

Oh I'm not disagreeing they should be first, or the primary or whatever. But look at all those forums listed. Does each game need its own section, with like 4 subsections and each subsection gets its own subsections "if needed"? Why? There are 10 games, so that's 10 sections, each with 4 subforums and then those with subforums? This could run 50+, how does that help?

And I disagree that simply a shift in focus ruined the Org. Because you simply can't change the format and watch people come storming back. It's more complicated than that. I've been goofing off on forum for almost 20 years and I can tell you most of them are dying. There are enough game specific forums that have died a slow death because of several reasons. The games are old, people use things like reddit instead (that's a question, has anyone posted links here on the tw reddit?) and the fanbase who was loyal to it either stopped playing, moved elsewhere or simply has no desire to visit a forum on it.

I still have not seen a good reason for why this would bring anyone around. It seems mostly to be "Org was better then, if we go back, people will come back". There are actual ideas to be done to bring in activity but rearranging deck chairs won't stop the sinking.

[Axalon]

I'll keep this short....

I'm just stating that, in my opinion, setting up nice structures for the games and modding and whatnot will not bring in new people and will likely just showcase how dead it is.

How do you know this? ...Have you tried? ...Ever visited a place called the TWC? ...Ever wondered why that site simply kills this one? ...Ever wondered why most people prefer that site to this one? The "nice structures" and "neatly defined boxes" are part of the reasons why - that's a fact. Which essentially leaves us with the option to either do roughly the same, and try to keep up (compete), or get left behind (die). And right now bubba, we are being left behind... This utterly regardless of your opinions, utterly regardless if you agree with it or not... Understand?

- A

[Axalon]

You have to see it from a first-time (or long-time, for that matter) viewer/lurker. As Ax states, we are TotalWar.Org, and as such, the primary focus should be on the games. Off-topic discussions like the Frontroom/Backroom should be a welcome diversion for those who want it. Unfortunately those roles are reversed, and the games have become just a side note, while the discussion forums are the main hangout. Might as well change the name to Louie's Bar & Grill

The facts speak for themselves...when discussion focused on the games was thriving, so did the Org. As the focus on the games has faded....so has the Org.

Finally! A voice of reason! Hallelujah! ...Errr, that translates roughly to totally agreed... :D

- A