Org Promotion

[Montmorency]

Not that I'm against making you happy but this really just seems like "You'll be happy with whatever, I'll be happy with my plan, so do my plan"

This this this. To claim anything else is rank delusion.

If you want to see activity in this forum - invite people to it.

[ReluctantSamurai]

Why would someone who goes to TWC, or reddit or whatever come here instead? Because "Forum Configuration!" is not the big selling point.

That's true only if you aren't a regular player

Oh I love TWC! But not because of the neatly defined boxes.

Then what draws you to TWC?

If you want to see activity in this forum - invite people to it.

It's rather impossible to invite folks to come here. What needs to be done to see more activity is make the site inviting

the only reason why now most people prefer TWC is because it already has more people.

Ummmm...

[Montmorency]

What needs to be done to see more activity is make the site inviting

That bears no relevance to how virtual spaces function. You can't see the inviting new Org while riding along the highway.

[AntiDamascus]

That's true only if you aren't a regular player

Again with the "You don't play TW 24/7 and therefore don't 'get it' ". That's not a good outlook to draw in more people.

Then what draws you to TWC?

I'm gonna go with: activity, the wiki, activity and probably activity. It updates on a regular basis and has people there to talk to. It looks alive and growing as opposed to here which is full of the same people arguing with each other over the same issues.

It's rather impossible to invite folks to come here. What needs to be done to see more activity is make the site inviting

It is actually not impossible to invite people here. Sites generate traffic all the time from offsite things. Usually someone linking something of interest and people check it out to see if they like it. That's probably how you found a bunch of the sites and things you visit or do now.

Ummmm...

People go to the place with more people. If you had to choose between here and there, most choose there because it is active. There needs to be something else to draw people here. It needs content. No one is leaving content for no content, I don't care how much you assure me that pretty forum lineups will bring them in.

It reminds me of the joke of all the old lodge members spending every meeting talking about how to get more members instead of, you know, doing something fun that might draw in members.

[ReluctantSamurai]

That bears no relevance to how virtual spaces function. You can't see the inviting new Org while riding along the highway.

Okaaay cap'n

I'm gonna go with: activity, the wiki, activity and probably activity. It updates on a regular basis and has people there to talk to. It looks alive and growing as opposed to here which is full of the same people arguing with each other over the same issues.

I'm guessing "activity" means "Frontroom/Backroom" kind of talk I don't have an account there, but I occasionally lurk, and there's plenty of activity focused on the games. The arguing over the same issues is precisely the problem here. Instead of dropping in to find the latest patch/fix for your favorite mod, or talking tactics from your latest campaign, etc, and then popping in to the 'tavern' to shoot the breeze on the latest political/religious bruhaha, the latter is usually why most people come here anymore. Like I said, let's rename the place to suit the environment, cuz' it sure ain't about TW anymore

There needs to be something else to draw people here. It needs content.

And what sort of content are you suggesting?

[Montmorency]

usually why most people come here anymore.

You're missing the Gameroom, but more importantly you miss all the people who want to find TW information but have no interest in staying and discussing TW. If someone has a specific question about a specific mechanic and kthxbye, no contests or layout changes or anything of that sort will attract their residence. What you are depending on is a fundamental philosphical persuasion that TW is something people should come to talk about, and that isn't something that can be accomplished from within a forum.

Instead of dropping in to find the latest patch/fix for your favorite mod, or talking tactics from your latest campaign, etc,

People who have a specific interest in discussing legacy topics with those who share that interest should create or join dedicated legacy communities.

it sure ain't about TW anymore

It's not obliged to be, just as humans are not obliged to live forever or institutions to perdure eternally.

[AntiDamascus]

Okaaay cap'n

If we change the site format, how would people find out about it?

I'm guessing "activity" means "Frontroom/Backroom" kind of talk I don't have an account there, but I occasionally lurk, and there's plenty of activity focused on the games. The arguing over the same issues is precisely the problem here. Instead of dropping in to find the latest patch/fix for your favorite mod, or talking tactics from your latest campaign, etc, and then popping in to the 'tavern' to shoot the breeze on the latest political/religious bruhaha, the latter is usually why most people come here anymore. Like I said, let's rename the place to suit the environment, cuz' it sure ain't about TW anymore

And oddly enough, you would be wrong. It's another "you only care about the offtopic stuff". I still find it funny this assumption that somehow I'm not interested in TW. You never even considered I meant TW activity. They post new stuff constantly. Several times a week. Almost every forum has a post that day or only a few behind. It's active. About TW. Amazing.

And what sort of content are you suggesting?

Well isn't that the question? What's the point of doing a forum change if we don't know what will go in it? A forum shake up is fine, I guess. But what's going to go in it? I have ideas and things I would add but if there's no new content then why bother?

[ReluctantSamurai]

You're missing the Gameroom, but more importantly you miss all the people who want to find TW information but have no interest in staying and discussing TW.

You are ignoring the facts, my friend. Back in post #25, numbers were given for posts made since the beginning of 2016. Backroom #1 w/almost 149,000 posts, Gameroom #2 w/just over 90,000 posts. Together they outnumber ever other sub-forum combined...by a wide margin. And neither have anything remotely to do with a TW game Can you consider it a coincidence that the Org's short-term decline (ie. the last 5-6 years) parallels the rising popularity of those two forums?

It's not obliged to be, just as humans are not obliged to live forever or institutions to perdure eternally.

Great! Then what do you want to rename this place to? Something more appropriate to its' current status

It's another "you only care about the offtopic stuff"

Maybe not you personally, but the cumulative post count at the Org since the start of this year sez otherwise

Well isn't that the question? What's the point of doing a forum change if we don't know what will go in it?

Isn't that what we are discussing here

[Beskar]

Can you consider it a coincidence that the Org's short-term decline (ie. the last 5-6 years) parallels the rising popularity of those two forums?

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Joking aside, "rising popularity" is on a ratio basis, it isn't a case that people are joining to post in the off-discussion sections more, it is more that the loss is less severe in these locations than in the total war areas. Reasons are this are mostly older members who were dissatisfied with the newer titles, bored with the older ones, but still attend due to companionship through the bonds they formed with people over the years.

There are multiple theories to explain this loss, one is going along the lines of forums as a format, in general, along with the rise of social media, reddit, centralization of information. When I first joined the Org, TWC had already overtaken the Org in popularity, infact, that was the reason I became an Orgah was the smaller and more intimate community.

I have been told there were significant behind the scenes factors as to why this occurred, and why this increased. One big difference was TWC is a far more commercial enterprise, I remember reading at one point it required $500 per month to run, there are some very impressive amounts of money and investment has been put into that place. The Org has always ran as an enterprise done in someones backyard shed as a hobby in comparison, we were lucky to have a host who would let us have our internet space for free, and back in 1998, this was very expensive, even when I joined in 2008, internet hosting was not cheap. Now-a-days, we are able to self-fund the Org from donations people have previously given us and we had to rely on after our former host closed down their shop. It is comparing the success of the family ran hobby-shop to Walmart, the Org was not going to compete in the same environment. This is not to belittle TWC and their efforts, because seriously, they put a lot of work in that place and there is a reason it is popular as it is, and ignoring that would be a folly.

If you really want the "meat on the bone" to why the Org doesn't fare like TWC, it is because of Network Value. People chose a place like TWC for their number 1 resource because it is pretty much the number 1 resource for that information. Latest screenshots? Big scoop in a magazine? Someone has posted it. Someone is engaging in it. You might go "Why don't we have that?" and the simple answer is, is that the community is not providing it. We have a smaller community, so when we hear the big scoop, there are less members to hear about it, and post about it, opposed to other places. People say about Mods, and for many reasons before my time, TWC was able to offer better Mod hosting and support, so modders went over there. If you want your work seen by more people, and receive better support, where would you shop? Would be at the place that offers the best.

We are currently looking at options to see how we can better support things like forum structure, outside of changing what order the games are in, and if they are achievable, we can present and offer these. But I feel that we need to be honest with ourselves as to why things are as they are, and structural change will not do anything but quality of life for current membership.

[Gregoshi]

I have ideas and things I would add but if there's no new content then why bother?

IMHO, that is the chicken-or-the-egg dilemma we find ourselves in now. Nobody wants to do/post anything because there is no activity here but there is no activity because nobody wants do/post anything.

Content just doesn't happen. Somebody has to do it...and the community has to engage and respond.

[ReluctantSamurai]

@Beskar

As my favorite Vulcan would say...Fascinating!

[AntiDamascus]

That's why I felt the forum shakeup was.... nice but not the main point of this.