Catalonia

**Sarmatian** · 10-07-2016, 23:37

Over the last few years, various Catalonian politicians have been pushing the idea of a referendum for independence from Spain.

On Thursday, the regional parliament voted that referendum will be held in 2017, with or without Madrid's approval. The central government has so far maintained that Catalonia isn't allowed to hold a referendum, let alone secede because the Spanish constitution doesn't allow it.

A July poll has Leave slightly ahead, 48 to 42%.

It is interesting, the people's tendency to blame someone else when things go south.

**lars573** · 10-08-2016, 01:45

Show me a country who's constitution has a framework for regional succession built in from jump? Legitimately asking, I can't think of one. I think they need to have a referendum and get it out of their system. Not matter how it goes. But with the problems in the central government this light just lead to a bigger mess.

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**Seamus Fermanagh** · 10-08-2016, 18:33

Originally Posted by lars573

Show me a country who's constitution has a framework for regional succession built in from jump? Legitimately asking, I can't think of one. I think they need to have a referendum and get it out of their system. Not matter how it goes. But with the problems in the central government this light just lead to a bigger mess.

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Even the USA, which by the nature of its founding by the "several states" SHOULD have had such a procedure, did not include it in the Constitution. That was actually part of Lincoln's legal stance at the time of the ACW, that the Southern states had now right to secede.

Catalan separatism -- and the upcoming referendum -- even made it to our NPR news via the BBC hour. I predict that they will vote to secede. I have no idea if they can make a real go of it as an independent country.

**Gilrandir** · 10-09-2016, 07:26

Originally Posted by Sarmatian

On Thursday, the regional parliament voted that referendum will be held in 2017, with or without Madrid's approval.

They had one in 2014. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catala...ferendum,_2014
And?

This one is going to be just another wish-wash.

**rory_20_uk** · 10-09-2016, 16:59

Given that Lichtenstein somehow manages to cope, and Catalonia gives a lot more money to Spain than they receive they would be fine - unless the rest of Spain and the EU spitefully tries to punish them for not realising that all right minded people want to be part of one mass and anyone that disagrees is an Enemy of the People.

Democracy is all about choosing one leader from a pre-set group, not about stating that you'd like a different structure altogether.

**Philippus Flavius Homovallumus** · 10-10-2016, 01:59

Yeah, Catalonia is both the literal and financial breadbasket. The question isn't how they'd cope, it's how the Castilians would cope, because you can bet Basque Country would be next to leave, followed by Valencia.

For that reason Madrid isn't going to let this happen in the current climate.

**Husar** · 10-10-2016, 03:56

What if the greater London area left? Or Bavaria? What if Rotterdam left the Netherlands?

All this "we are rich, so let's leave the poor people behind to enjoy our riches more" is starting to get on my nerves, greedy *insert insult*...

There was a time when this was so bad that the poor people began to hang or behead the rich ones, have we not learned anything from history?

**Philippus Flavius Homovallumus** · 10-10-2016, 14:42

Originally Posted by Husar

What if the greater London area left? Or Bavaria? What if Rotterdam left the Netherlands?

All this "we are rich, so let's leave the poor people behind to enjoy our riches more" is starting to get on my nerves, greedy *insert insult*...

There was a time when this was so bad that the poor people began to hang or behead the rich ones, have we not learned anything from history?

Globalisation has exposed to the rich that they are more similar to each other than to the poor people surrounding them. Building the EU has accelerated this process, so that the Nation States are under greater strain than they have been in centuries as the urbanised centre of each State benefits from the EU, and globalisation, whilst the peripheral regions do not.

**Gilrandir** · 10-10-2016, 14:58

Originally Posted by Husar

What if the greater London area left? Or Bavaria? What if Rotterdam left the Netherlands?

London or Rotterdam can't boast of any history separate from the whole country, rather the country was formed around them. Besides, there is no separate Rotterdamese or Londonese ethnicity/nation or language.

Bavaria is a different story, but they still can't claim to have a different language or culture. Catalonia is lucky (or unlucky, depending on your point of view) to have all of those, so it is not about economy (or not only about economy).

**Greyblades** · 10-10-2016, 17:06

Originally Posted by Husar

What if the greater London area left? Or Bavaria? What if Rotterdam left the Netherlands?

All this "we are rich, so let's leave the poor people behind to enjoy our riches more" is starting to get on my nerves, greedy *insert insult*...

There was a time when this was so bad that the poor people began to hang or behead the rich ones, have we not learned anything from history?

I was out of action for a week, when I get back husar is echoing what I've been saying for 3 months.

The hell did I miss?