Catalonia

[Pannonian]

A large area voted overwhelmingly to leave. They should be allowed to leave. I imagine that Sudan did not constitutionally have the ability to let South Sudan leave, and yet they did. South Sudan is also in a much worse financial position yet they'd rather freedom. Their choice.

It's then up to the Catalans to make their independence real. If they can't, there's no should. Self determination consists of two components.

[rory_20_uk]

It's then up to the Catalans to make their independence real. If they can't, there's no should. Self determination consists of two components.

Sure. But then the rest of Spain should not be undermining them by sending in troops and making threats.

[Husar]

Sure. But then the rest of Spain should not be undermining them by sending in troops and making threats.

Sure, but then they shouldn't be undermining Spain by seceding.

[Gilrandir]

Were they all the richest region in the country before they gained independence?

Slovenia was. I believe Croatia came next in its economic development.

When did they gain independence and from whom?

Do I have to lecture you on history? Google it.

I'd say a region that is at the bottom end of the country it is in has better chances for improvement than one that is already at the top.

First of all, this is an arbitrary statement that needs statistical substantiation.

Second of all, since they were different in their development and now they are (more or less) prosperous countries, the starting point doesn't seem to matter.

[rory_20_uk]

Sure, but then they shouldn't be undermining Spain by seceding.

So... they are free to choose what they want as long as they choose to preserve the stats quo.

[Husar]

Slovenia was. I believe Croatia came next in its economic development.


Do I have to lecture you on history? Google it.



First of all, this is an arbitrary statement that needs statistical substantiation.

Second of all, since they were different in their development and now they are (more or less) prosperous countries, the starting point doesn't seem to matter.

So... they are free to choose what they want as long as they choose to preserve the stats quo.

You're right, if they secede the world will be a better place.

[Gilrandir]

You're right, if they secede the world will be a better place.

And if they don't it wouldn't?

They opted not to sidestep by unilaterally declaring independence without outside or Spanish support.

Unilaterally, but not unanimously. This might matter if it comes to popular resistance.

[Pannonian]

And if they don't it wouldn't?

Unilaterally, but not unanimously. This might matter if it comes to popular resistance.

Nothing is ever unanimous. But it's in their own hands, rather than blaming others like rory likes to do (ie. blaming the Spanish for intervening whilst blaming the EU for not intervening).

[Husar]

And if they don't it wouldn't?

I was trying to secede from this thread because looking for your statistics prevents me from getting actually important work done.
Can't you just let me go? All I want is some self-determination regarding my being part of this thread...

[Pannonian]

Sure. But then the rest of Spain should not be undermining them by sending in troops and making threats.

If their independence has any substance, they should be able to resist or sidestep any such moves. They opted not to sidestep by unilaterally declaring independence without outside or Spanish support. If they can't then resist Spanish action, what practical worth is their declared independence?