Catalonia

[Sarmatian]

From what I've been hearing from a friend who lives in Barcelona, the result is in no way representative - after the Spanish police confiscated the ballot papers, they were posted online and people were encourage to print their own. Additionally, they were told to go to a different polling station if their's was closed, which means the same person could have voted several times in different polling stations.

It would explain the results which in no way correlate to actual sentiments of the population, even if we take into account low turnout and the fact that those wanting to secede will be much more active.

The gist of it is:

1) Catalonia has no army
2) It has no support among major countries near or far
3) its economy would suffer a lot if out of Spain
4) it would take a lot of time to negotiate free trade agreements with neighbouring states, even if we assume all neighbouring states would be willing to do it
5) A lot of instability would naturally affect revenues from tourism

We can either assume the people organising this were complete idiots, OR that this was just a way for local politicians to score popularity points.
This is really NOT how you go about getting your own country. The only way this could have maybe possibly worked is if response from Madrid was highly disproportional, like tanks and gunships with Catalans taken into camps. A few select arrests and a few broken noses isn't going to cut it.

[Gilrandir]

I've been busy writing a PhD and chatting to pretty girls on Discord (100% of this is true)

100% of pretty girls? Are only pretty girls allowed to register?

I'm not sure there is a big difference - Catalonia has its own Parliament, President and Police Force already, a "Federal Spain" might hand them more law-making powers, perhaps, but that's probably about it.

From what I heard it is more about taxes being left in Catalonia than about anything else.

From what I've been hearing from a friend who lives in Barcelona...

Say what? Sarmatian relying on words of ONE EMOTIONALLY INVESTED person from within the whirlwind of events? Someone, pinch me.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

100% of pretty girls? Are only pretty girls allowed to register? ... Someone, pinch me.

[PINCH] [/PINCH]

And PVH, as the determinant of 'pretty' based on his own sense of the aesthetic in that moment, is of correct of course. Though why he then chose to sow Discord among them I know not...

[Gilrandir]

[PINCH] [/PINCH]

Ouch ouch

And PVH, as the determinant of 'pretty' based on his own sense of the aesthetic in that moment, is of correct of course. Though why he then chose to sow Discord among them I know not...

AFAIK, Discord is about voice chatting. Not sure there is video, that's why I expressed my doubts.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

From what I've been hearing from a friend who lives in Barcelona, the result is in no way representative - after the Spanish police confiscated the ballot papers, they were posted online and people were encourage to print their own. Additionally, they were told to go to a different polling station if their's was closed, which means the same person could have voted several times in different polling stations.

It would explain the results which in no way correlate to actual sentiments of the population, even if we take into account low turnout and the fact that those wanting to secede will be much more active.

The gist of it is:

1) Catalonia has no army
2) It has no support among major countries near or far
3) its economy would suffer a lot if out of Spain
4) it would take a lot of time to negotiate free trade agreements with neighbouring states, even if we assume all neighbouring states would be willing to do it
5) A lot of instability would naturally affect revenues from tourism

We can either assume the people organising this were complete idiots, OR that this was just a way for local politicians to score popularity points.
This is really NOT how you go about getting your own country. The only way this could have maybe possibly worked is if response from Madrid was highly disproportional, like tanks and gunships with Catalans taken into camps. A few select arrests and a few broken noses isn't going to cut it.

The first 4 points also obtained for my country, then non extent, as of 1 April 1775. The geography is quit different though.

[Sarmatian]

Say what? Sarmatian relying on words of ONE EMOTIONALLY INVESTED person from within the whirlwind of events? Someone, pinch me.

And I knew you're gonna go wild on this :). Does that make me clairvoyant? Hmm, something to think about...

Anyway, he's not emotionally invested, he's Serbian.
Secondly, it's a possible explanation of WHY there is such a huge discrepancy between multiple independent polls conducted in the last few years and actual referendum results.

The first 4 points also obtained for my country, then non extent, as of 1 April 1775. The geography is quit different though.

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here - that the colonies had all that or that they didn't?

[Gilrandir]

And I knew you're gonna go wild on this :).

Not wild but increduluos.

Anyway, he's not emotionally invested, he's Serbian.

I don't believe an outsider can live somewhere long enough to be aware of the local sentiment and be indifferent to what is going on around him.

[Sarmatian]

Not wild but increduluos.



I don't believe an outsider can live somewhere long enough to be aware of the local sentiment and be indifferent to what is going on around him.

Doesn't matter. I still love you.

[Gilrandir]

Doesn't matter. I still love you.

Can't claim the same after those pinches from Seamus.

[Sarmatian]

Doesn't matter. I still love you.

I take that back. Losing to Croatia? At home? This hurts me more than it hurts you.

[Gilrandir]

I take that back. Losing to Croatia? At home? This hurts me more than it hurts you.

Transferring your derision onto the one who is not responsible for what happened? + Bad call #2. Derailing the thread? After what has been specifically said by the powers-that-be?

As for the loss:
Some people here claim that it was a cunning ruse: if Ukraine made it to the World Cup held in Russia it would face a dilemma - to play on the enemy's territory (which shouldn't be done in view of what has happened and is still happening) or to refuse to go and get FIFA's hackles up. So losing the game has removed all those doubts and frustrations in one sweep.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

...I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here - that the colonies had all that or that they didn't?

I am saying that of the 5 points noted as problematic for an independent Catalonia, the first 4 also obtained at the start of the American independence movement in the 1760s. Tourism was not an industry in the New World at the time, so that one didn't matter. I think the first 4 arguably apply in all secessionist efforts. The move for independence happens in spite of those short term difficulties.

I did note that the strategic situation was different. Throwing off the yoke is at least a BIT easier if you are 3-6 weeks distant from the 'mother' country you seek to leave. Catalonia does not have that advantage.

[Greyblades]

Hoping for a Louis XVI to intervene and bankrupt himself saving them is a tad overly optimistic.

[Husar]

Hoping for a Louis XVI to intervene and bankrupt himself saving them is a tad overly optimistic.

I was about to say I'm not sure whether the French will provide the Catalans with gunpowder for their muskets this time around.

[Montmorency]

Hundreds of thousands march for union.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Hoping for a Louis XVI to intervene and bankrupt himself saving them is a tad overly optimistic.

And don't forget the Dutch bankers...

Besides, Louis' bankruptcy was only partially on our behalf. He ended up fighting what some would argue as the first truly global conflict against England by intervening.