European Right Wing

[edyzmedieval]

Which makes it a position to think about - how can you stop people from drifting over to extremism and to highlight the importance of balance?

[Montmorency]

Which makes it a position to think about - how can you stop people from drifting over to extremism and to highlight the importance of balance?

Come in after things have boiled over?

[Greyblades]

Dont be responsible for the actions that made things go south, that should do it.

[edyzmedieval]

Come in after things have boiled over?

I don't think that will work out too well - usually when things boil over in politics, something bad happened already.

[Brenus]

I was thinking about reactions to Trump’s election.
The rise of “populism” is due to the failure of the precedent regimes to address their population’s needs. H. Clinton lost because Obama’s failure. Compare the numbers who voted for Obama first season, then the numbers who voted for her.
What people need is a job, a future for their children. What the elites in France, UK and USA offer is TAFTA, CETA and TINA. And the ones like Sanders in USA, Corbyn in UK and Mélenchon in France are at best ignored and when it is impossible to do so, mocked and caricatured, described under the qualifications of “Populist”, “Marxist” and others by the media in general.
And then comes the moment to blame the voters, and to play emotional: Stop thinking, react. Trump is a racist, xenophobe, misogynistic con-artist. True. But when H Clinton was promising more TAFTA, more CETA, more TINA, he was saying they will have jobs.
When every day is a fight, when tomorrow is uncertain thanks to zero-hours contract, of temp contract renewed every 3 months, when you small salary is freeze for years and no prospect to be improved, when the price to your children to get education is increasing, when all the concern of your “leaders” is to break all form of resistance to money makers, more concern by social fraud than by tax evasions and fraud, to make your situation even more difficult by cutting all social protection, to carry-on like before, for whom will you vote? When “elites” choose to ignore the result of elections, lied deliberately and ignored the reality of daily life for their electors, first reaction is abstention, then vote of “Cocktail Molotov” vote, as described by Michael Moore when the possibility to vote of alternative has been eradicate.
Sanders and Corbyn had it. H Clinton’s supporters and Labour’s elites had de facto prohibited their electorate to vote for the candidate they didn’t want. They are doing the same in France. They tried to prevent these candidates even to reach the place where they can be elected, by rewriting the rules when necessary. Same was done much more brutally in the past. You do know why the Islamists took power in countries following the Arab Spring? Because all other forms of protest labelled as “communist” were repressed in blood by corrupted dictatorships supported and trained by our democracies, leaving the field opened for protest to religious fanatics.
The greatest numbers of voters are abstentionist. This should have been the alarm bell.
So, when stability means no job again, some choose chaos. Death is stable, life is chaos. If chaos means they might have a chance to finally have something, they choose chaos.
I read this: they don’t want to be protected when they lose their job, they want a job. And this simple thing has been ignored by all governments for now 30 years. So the ones, even if there is only a remote chance they keep their promises to do so, are better than the ones who even don’t think to build a future for them. And thanks to the “system” (a term which I will not explain here but it describes a complex interactions of “natural” allies, economic, political and media), all other options have been made out of option, the only one left is the “hand grenade”.

[edyzmedieval]

Some well thought out points Brenus, thank you for the post.

There's one thing I was to shine a light on - NAFTA, TAFTA and the rest of the free trade agreements. Protectionism does a lot of harm, and in the case of many products, prices will rise because of protectionist tariffs. The alternative is free trade agreements and free trade within economic blocs.

So how do we do free trade without harming jobs?

[Husar]

I've been saying that for a while, although I was expecting it to happen with someone like Sanders and not Trump...
This is where humanity disappoints me again, I guess.
To me, Sanders is more the "Change together" candidate and Trump the "Change by throwing them under the bus" candidate, although those are very generic terms considering both are willing to steal jobs from poor Chinese workers...
And then it remains to be seen whether Trump wasn't just a trojan horse given that he belongs to the billionaire class himself and may leave a lot of governing to republican establishment politicians.

[Pannonian]

I've been saying that for a while, although I was expecting it to happen with someone like Sanders and not Trump...
This is where humanity disappoints me again, I guess.
To me, Sanders is more the "Change together" candidate and Trump the "Change by throwing them under the bus" candidate, although those are very generic terms considering both are willing to steal jobs from poor Chinese workers...
And then it remains to be seen whether Trump wasn't just a trojan horse given that he belongs to the billionaire class himself and may leave a lot of governing to republican establishment politicians.

You've got Corbyn in the UK: the pretend to be anti-establishment candidate who fattens himself at the trough, the Napoleon who chases out Blair's Snowball, standing indulgently while Momentum's sheeplike members baa out the latest version of Four Legs Good Two Legs Bad.

[Husar]

You've got Corbyn in the UK: the pretend to be anti-establishment candidate who fattens himself at the trough, the Napoleon who chases out Blair's Snowball, standing indulgently while Momentum's sheeplike members baa out the latest version of Four Legs Good Two Legs Bad.

I'm sorry, but the UK left my world by choice a couple of months ago.

As a personal advice, don't become like Gilrandir or me and try to bring your pet issue into every topic.
*insert rambling about the rich vs poor divide/greed being the root of all evil*

[Pannonian]

I was thinking about reactions to Trump’s election.
The rise of “populism” is due to the failure of the precedent regimes to address their population’s needs. H. Clinton lost because Obama’s failure. Compare the numbers who voted for Obama first season, then the numbers who voted for her.
What people need is a job, a future for their children. What the elites in France, UK and USA offer is TAFTA, CETA and TINA. And the ones like Sanders in USA, Corbyn in UK and Mélenchon in France are at best ignored and when it is impossible to do so, mocked and caricatured, described under the qualifications of “Populist”, “Marxist” and others by the media in general.
And then comes the moment to blame the voters, and to play emotional: Stop thinking, react. Trump is a racist, xenophobe, misogynistic con-artist. True. But when H Clinton was promising more TAFTA, more CETA, more TINA, he was saying they will have jobs.
When every day is a fight, when tomorrow is uncertain thanks to zero-hours contract, of temp contract renewed every 3 months, when you small salary is freeze for years and no prospect to be improved, when the price to your children to get education is increasing, when all the concern of your “leaders” is to break all form of resistance to money makers, more concern by social fraud than by tax evasions and fraud, to make your situation even more difficult by cutting all social protection, to carry-on like before, for whom will you vote? When “elites” choose to ignore the result of elections, lied deliberately and ignored the reality of daily life for their electors, first reaction is abstention, then vote of “Cocktail Molotov” vote, as described by Michael Moore when the possibility to vote of alternative has been eradicate.
Sanders and Corbyn had it. H Clinton’s supporters and Labour’s elites had de facto prohibited their electorate to vote for the candidate they didn’t want. They are doing the same in France. They tried to prevent these candidates even to reach the place where they can be elected, by rewriting the rules when necessary. Same was done much more brutally in the past. You do know why the Islamists took power in countries following the Arab Spring? Because all other forms of protest labelled as “communist” were repressed in blood by corrupted dictatorships supported and trained by our democracies, leaving the field opened for protest to religious fanatics.
The greatest numbers of voters are abstentionist. This should have been the alarm bell.
So, when stability means no job again, some choose chaos. Death is stable, life is chaos. If chaos means they might have a chance to finally have something, they choose chaos.
I read this: they don’t want to be protected when they lose their job, they want a job. And this simple thing has been ignored by all governments for now 30 years. So the ones, even if there is only a remote chance they keep their promises to do so, are better than the ones who even don’t think to build a future for them. And thanks to the “system” (a term which I will not explain here but it describes a complex interactions of “natural” allies, economic, political and media), all other options have been made out of option, the only one left is the “hand grenade”.

Corbyn isn't "labelled as Communist". Corbyn follows the Communist creed, as described by Orwell back in the day when Uncle Joe was still alive. He even follows the modus operandi, memorably allegorised by Orwell in Animal Farm.

[Sarmatian]

Which makes it a position to think about - how can you stop people from drifting over to extremism and to highlight the importance of balance?

Traditionally, it was supposed to the be job of the elite in the country, but at the moment, the elites have been discredited and the prevailing opinion among the unwashed masses is "we're sick of elites and experts, we don't need them!" <makes you wish they'd keep the same attitude when they have a medical procedure done on them and spare us all of their continuous drivel>

So, short of having a new world war with a few hundred million casualties, I'm really not sure.

[Husar]

Traditionally, it was supposed to the be job of the elite in the country, but at the moment, the elites have been discredited and the prevailing opinion among the unwashed masses is "we're sick of elites and experts, we don't need them!" <makes you wish they'd keep the same attitude when they have a medical procedure done on them and spare us all of their continuous drivel>

Some of them already do that, see anti-vaxer movement and all the alternative medicine and healing stuff.