Representative Democracy [Concluded]

[Montmorency]

Why Monty? Monty is the one who made the above post breaking down the spread. He's looking at the logic of the votes and notes it could be clearing for me. Do you think a scum Monty would point that out?

He thinks I've scum because I've championed common-sense statements he somehow vehemently disagrees with.

[Zack]

What does that have to do with it? Unless you're trying to rule out Visor and Winston as suspects?

For the record:

Jabbz had Schema as scum, Fenn as questionable, VIsor and Winston as null.
BSmith was null on Fenn and Schema. In late D3, he said his reads list was the same as what he posted the other day, but somehow I haven't been able to find a reads list corresponding to that statement.
Cass was becoming suspicious of Visor and Winston, more so the former. Shaded Schema a bit for dropping off, but not to the extent with which she was voicing active discomfort with Visor and Winston. Indeed, Cass even voiced the possibility of Winston-Visor-Monty. Schema was not as low as this in the bottom tier, above even Fenn (in Cass' opinion). Ultimately, Cass' opinion on Schema seemed about as high as her opinion of you, by EoD4.


dicetosser, what do you think of Fenn?

that's not what cass' reads list said

and if you're not basing it off of nightkills... then why would it matter how many people want to vote them? And in any case, only two people voted her and one died. How are you using that argument to defend Schema while accusing Fenn anyways?

It's such a weird way of going about it.

[Schema]

I think you are misrepresenting your EOD as protective/townreading of Al when really it was just picking one player over another. You didn't voice any disapproval of the Al Sipslar votes toward those actually voting him, like Monstr and Visor. So why am I now where you direct your attention? Why not look at those who actually cast the vote on Al in the first place?

That is not what I am saying or presenting. I never said I was townreading him, I am saying that of the three people up for lynch, I had a clear preference for the two who did not get lynched and the third guy flipped villager. So it's silly of you to accuse me of swooping in to score an easy lynch, when in fact it's a perfectly logical progression. Why would I suddenly reverse my reads there?

Yeah, and the underlined is not at all what I was saying. What I'm saying is that any thoughts you may or may not have had regarding Cass' choice about who she lynched are irrelevant because they are outside the readable content of the game. Al flipped town; who pushed his lynch? Sure wasn't me. In fact I voted Visor after he put a naked vote on Al, and I questioned Monstr about his vote. I could have come in advocating for a lynch on Fenn or Al if I was a wolf and I didn't do that.

Shouldn't I have been pushing the Al case forward?

[Zack]

So now Al's flip clears you?

[Montmorency]

that's not what cass' reads list said

and if you're not basing it off of nightkills... then why would it matter how many people want to vote them? And in any case, only two people voted her and one died. How are you using that argument to defend Schema while accusing Fenn anyways?

It's such a weird way of going about it.

I think you're doing this upside down. Unless you argue that nightkills determine suspects, you must use nightkills in the context of your existing suspicions. What I pointed out was that the nightkills do not - unless you have a new argument to present - say much in either way for Schema or for Visor/Winston. Cass and BSmith were obvious targets anyway, overdue in Cass' case. The only real mystery is Jabbz, and whether it could really have been a second Mafia vig or similar.

Now, as for the list I presented first in this chain, the one describing support for Schema lynch vs. support for Winston/Visor lynch, the list shows that support for Schema lynch is comparatively higher - this weakens the intrinsic case for her being scum, and weakens the case for her having to come in to save anyone at EOD. If she is scum, then she came in to spin for herself, not for any threatened partner.

And that is what Cass' read lists said. I have them noted down. Read them verbatim if you like.

[Montmorency]

Yeah, and the underlined is not at all what I was saying. What I'm saying is that any thoughts you may or may not have had regarding Cass' choice about who she lynched are irrelevant because they are outside the readable content of the game. Al flipped town; who pushed his lynch? Sure wasn't me. In fact I voted Visor after he put a naked vote on Al, and I questioned Monstr about his vote. I could have come in advocating for a lynch on Fenn or Al if I was a wolf and I didn't do that.

Shouldn't I have been pushing the Al case forward?

If Zack believes you are scum for interference, then he might as well say that presenting a target other than Al would be exactly what you should have done.

[Schema]

If Zack believes you are scum for interference, then he might as well say that presenting a target other than Al would be exactly what you should have done.

He could believe that, based on his reactions at my appearance. He didn't like my appearance at EOD and whatever he wants to make of that is up to him. That said, I showed up too late for any alternate target to gain much traction.

The reason I didn't pick one of the counter-candidates is because I did believe they were town. Why would I vote them, in that case?

I did the best I could with the little I had to go off of. Can't really say much more to it. Better to show up and take a shot at it imo.

[Visor]

Schemas shade of me at eod is priceless

'like my scum game'

That.you can neither name.or seriously point to as an actual reason for why I am mafia

Then again I also hated zacks post to schema defending me so ymmv

[Visor]

I couldn't care less that Al flipped town

Literally nothing to read him villagery off besides him posting a read list with near zero reasons once per phase

[Visor]

Yes, glancing back through he had a reaction something like, "Well the Cuth flip was town, good thing my vote didn't land there." Kind of chuckling off his read. It reminded me of a game I spec'd where he pushed a townie all day as scum and got them lynched, then turned around next day start and said, "Wow, I'm shocked! Did not expect that."

Just a case of deja vu.

Only so much can be done in an hour. Here's what I've got:

I've ISO'd Fenn and Fenn feels forced but too low-impact to be a good idea to lynch today.

Looking at Visor's reaction to Cuth being town after flip reminds me a little of a reaction he had in another scum game, and that is not sitting well with me. The fact that he claims to have had such success in his early reads (about 50/50 rn?) while still being alive bugs me a bit.

You've got a nice focus on me... and only me... is anyone else here EOD that is worth looking into? Where are the votes going and are there any you don't trust?

Name the game and explain it.

Because my reaction had nothing to do with apologising for Cuth flipping villager. (I thought he played poorly, mostly and his continual refusal to engage me for simple questions was lolworthy).

The only thing I mentioned is that I had a small sense of pride that I didn't vote him to be lynched because I had a small sliver of doubt, but I was mostly mad that I DIDN'T vote El Barto, who I did have as scum and my playstyle that lends itself to those actions.

I'm not apologising or whatever for reading Cuth wrongly, I am apologising for a prolonged flaw in my village gameplay.

[dicetosser1]

Why Monty? Monty is the one who made the above post breaking down the spread. He's looking at the logic of the votes and notes it could be clearing for me. Do you think a scum Monty would point that out?

I think hes playing puppetmaster. ive said hes scum all game and at this point im sticking to my reads

What does that have to do with it? Unless you're trying to rule out Visor and Winston as suspects?

For the record:

Jabbz had Schema as scum, Fenn as questionable, VIsor and Winston as null.
BSmith was null on Fenn and Schema. In late D3, he said his reads list was the same as what he posted the other day, but somehow I haven't been able to find a reads list corresponding to that statement.
Cass was becoming suspicious of Visor and Winston, more so the former. Shaded Schema a bit for dropping off, but not to the extent with which she was voicing active discomfort with Visor and Winston. Indeed, Cass even voiced the possibility of Winston-Visor-Monty. Schema was not as low as this in the bottom tier, above even Fenn (in Cass' opinion). Ultimately, Cass' opinion on Schema seemed about as high as her opinion of you, by EoD4.


dicetosser, what do you think of Fenn?

fenns pretty null to me just cause of low posting and I don't remember anything fenn has said.

[Montmorency]

I think hes playing puppetmaster. ive said hes scum all game and at this point im sticking to my reads.

So, uh, how has that gone for me?

[Choxorn]

(Posted with Pizza's permission, so don't get alarmed by a dead guy posting)

I'm hosting a minigame to try to revive CFC's Mafia Section. Sign up here if you're interested, especially if you're dead like me.

[dicetosser1]

So, uh, how has that gone for me?

seems to be working pretty well u are still alive and haven't been under any real danger of being lynched

[Montmorency]

seems to be working pretty well u are still alive and haven't been under any real danger of being lynched

Does that have to do with me, or does it have to do with the other lynch candidates, or does it have to do with the people arguing for and managing the lynches? Of the three components, my own 'strategy' seems to have the least impact on who gets lynched. I have never made leading arguments towards any of the major cases of the past 4 days. The only lynch you can credit as even in accord with my current wishes might be the GH lynch. Otherwise, from my in-thread position every lynch has been suboptimal. And Cass, as we know, and as I pointed out common sense dictated, is town - so she wasn't in cahoots with me or any similar conspiracy. Indeed, my structural recommendations to Cass aside from the lynch were either ignored or specifically contradicted in her decisions almost all of the time.

So - who exactly have I been puppeting, or what? Who is operating under my influence? What terms have I set that we are now operating under? What have I done to accomplish which specific goals? Am I secretly a Serial Killer against everyone?

You seem to have a really bad habit of deciding someone is scum just because you don't understand their positions. After all, something about Visor-Zack-Monty should at least strike you as strange, but after all, these are the people who have most criticized your reactions in the thread, so of course that alone must condemn them.

You need to reinvent your analysis.

[atheotes]

10 alive..possibly 3 more scum.
BSmith was Night 3 vig - was he killed because he was clear or did they think he has more shots? I am leaning on the former. Generally people seemed to be accepting the claim and out of the 2 additional kills today, 1 might be scum 1-shot and it is easy for them to have figured BSmith was a similar 1-shot.
Jabbz was probably shot by night 4 vig. So that is one more townie we can clear.

[atheotes]

Looks like i will have to go back and read the whole thread. Something i have never done before.
Can i do it? hmm..looks daunting.

[Visor]

Live players and reveals

Monstrbro
Montmorency
Zack
dicetosser1
atheotes
Winston Hughes
Schema
Visor
Fenn
Riedquat


Dead:
Choxorn- Mafia Goon, died D1
Sooh- Town watcher, died N1
Generalhankerchief- Vanilla town, died D2
dp101- Vanilla town, died N2
El Barto- Mafia Goon, died D3
Renata- Vanilla town, died N3
Cuthillius- Vanilla town, died N3
Al Sipsclar- Vanilla town, died D4
Cass_- Vanilla town, died N4
BSmith- N3 town vigilante, died N4
Jabbz- Vanilla town, died N4

DISTRICT ONE

Schema
Cuthillius
Renata
Choxorn
Dp101
Jabbz
dicetosser1

DISTRICT TWO

Winston Hughes
BSmith
Visor
Fenn
Riedquat
El Barto
Monstrbro

DISTRICT THREE

Montmorency
Al Sipsclar
Sooh
Cass_
GeneralHankerchief
Zack
atheotes

just for interests sake

I might go read over D1 and look at the progression of votes later and see how they went (from the unclears)

[Visor]

Vote: Visor

[Montmorency]

Visor, pick someone else for Chancellor.

Looks like i will have to go back and read the whole thread. Something i have never done before.
Can i do it? hmm..looks daunting.

Two 1-shot town vigs? I don't think that's plausible. And who could or would kill Jabbz? I can't really think of anyone?

Who would not be the killer, if town vig?

Monty
Atheotes (unless you're claiming?)
Zack - hasn't claimed, thought jabbz town or at least above null
Fenn - liked Jabbz
Dice - no claim, why not kill me?
Schema - no claim, I think liked jabbz - why not kill Visor?
Riedquat - liked jabbz, why not kill schema
Monstr - liked jabbz; if he's a role at all, he isn't claiming a killing role ATM
Visor - I think he liked jabbz, why not kill schema or dice?
Winston - I think liked jabbz, why not kill me or Zack?

Second big, let alone second vig killing jabbz, doesn't add up. We need another hypothesis.

[Visor]

Monty if you're a villager shut the hell up about me being a wolf and actually start doing something USEFUL

[Visor]

Visor, pick someone else for Chancellor.



Two 1-shot town vigs? I don't think that's plausible. And who could or would kill Jabbz? I can't really think of anyone?

Who would not be the killer, if town vig?

Monty
Atheotes (unless you're claiming?)
Zack - hasn't claimed, thought jabbz town or at least above null
Fenn - liked Jabbz
Dice - no claim, why not kill me?
Schema - no claim, I think liked jabbz - why not kill Visor?
Riedquat - liked jabbz, why not kill schema
Monstr - liked jabbz; if he's a role at all, he isn't claiming a killing role ATM
Visor - I think he liked jabbz, why not kill schema or dice?
Winston - I think liked jabbz, why not kill me or Zack?

Second big, let alone second vig killing jabbz, doesn't add up. We need another hypothesis.

i shoot schema everytime

and no, I refuse. i am not letting someone else get that position at this stage of the game.

[Montmorency]

i shoot schema everytime

and no, I refuse. i am not letting someone else get that position at this stage of the game.

You won't get it anyway. Pick an alternate.

[Visor]

You won't get it anyway. Pick an alternate.

Initial thought is Winston, but let me think on that further too.

Still, don't care. Campaigning for me.

[Montmorency]

Initial thought is Winston, but let me think on that further too.

Still, don't care. Campaigning for me.

WHY? Your picks for chancellor are ridiculous, your WTL is wrong, and you' already been Rep twice to no good effect.

You're not fit.

[Visor]

WHY? Your picks for chancellor are ridiculous, your WTL is wrong, and you' already been Rep twice to no good effect.

You're not fit.

NO THEY ARE NOT I AM A VILLAGER WHO HS PUSHED WOLVES

CASS LYNCHED TWO VILLAGERS (SHE GETS TEH FINAL SAY)

either start playing properly or bugger off your stupid tunnel of me this entire game has been utter horseshit

[Montmorency]

Scratch that, three times.

[Visor]

Besides, both Cuth and Al Sips were playing poorly, to the point where a NUMBER of TOP TIER villagers pointed out the same thing

so off

you're either a tunneling, annoying villager or you're a wolf and I don't care which, just get off my back for once in this frigging game.

[Montmorency]

NO THEY ARE NOT I AM A VILLAGER WHO HS PUSHED WOLVES

CASS LYNCHED TWO VILLAGERS (SHE GETS TEH FINAL SAY)

either start playing properly or bugger off your stupid tunnel of me this entire game has been utter horseshit

You've pushed wolves less than dice? You are like in the bottom third this game for pushing wolves. This isn't a defense for you. You don't even have the panache of Zack to pull it off.

[Visor]

You've pushed wolves less than dice? You are like in the bottom third this game for pushing wolves. This isn't a defense for you. You don't even have the panache of Zack to pull it off.

I HAVE PUSHED THE ONLY TWO WOLVES TO HAVE FLIPPED

ARE YOU BLIND