Representative Democracy [Concluded]

**Dp101** · 12-19-2016, 09:09

Originally Posted by Cuthillius

is this pm or am

It is glorious 24 hour time comrade.

**Cuthillius** · 12-19-2016, 09:10

Originally Posted by Zack

it's am

oh that's fun

oh well

ugh

**Choxorn** · 12-19-2016, 09:21

Oh shit I totally forgot the game had started

lolchox

I've been spending the past couple of hours reading through the thread trying to catch up. Don't have a lot of good reads on anyone yet, lots of people I'm totally unfamiliar with. Zack still looks good, I'll keep my chancellor vote on him. Slight town reads on Renata, Cuth, and GH. Speaking of which, Vote: Cuth for District One. El Barto and Monty are still impossible to read, and while I don't want that to be an excuse that lets them whomp us like they did last game, I also don't want to reflexively vote them just for last game either. Sooh I was going to vote before she claimed PR. I still don't like her, and I echo what Zack said about her here:

Originally Posted by Zack

i instinctively hate generic pr claims like that especially combined with the passive-aggressive sentiment

but wolves are usually big cowards who claim vt

I also hate generic PR claims and don't see what the point is of soft-claiming and trying to string everyone along unless you have some kind of uber-secret mafia-killing thing of doom going on, and it would be an easy claim to lie about because you're not being specific, and I don't like how she's reacted to pressure, but I also don't think she's scum for it.

No real opinion yet on most people.

Last, but not least:

Originally Posted by Zack

wow is float on the only modest mouse song that isn't actual garbage?

**atheotes** · 12-19-2016, 09:36

Sooh should not be lynched today.

I think Zack is going to vote Jabbz and i dont want GH to be the rep.
so, Vote: Cass
Vote: Winston

**atheotes** · 12-19-2016, 09:46

Tally # 4
	Blue	Green	Red
DISTRICT ONE	Rep	Chancellor	Lynch
Schema		Cass
Cuthillius	Cuth	Zack	Visor
Renata	Dp101	Cass	Jabbz
Choxorn		Zack
Dp101	Cuth	GH	Sooh
Jabbz	Dp101	Cass	Zack
dicetosser1	Dice	Cass	Monty
DISTRICT TWO
Winston Hughes	Visor	Winston	El barto
BSmith
Visor	Visor	Visor	Sooh
Csargo	Winston	Monty	Sooh
Riedquat	Visor	Visor	Visor
El Barto	El Barto	El Barto	Winston
Monstrbro	Visor	Visor	Sooh
DISTRICT THREE
Montmorency	GH	Cass	Visor
Al Sipsclar
Sooh	Cass	Sooh	Zack
Cass_			Monty
GeneralHankerchief	GH	Zack	Sooh
Zack	Zack	Zack	Jabbz
atheotes	Cass	Winston	El barto

**Jabbz** · 12-19-2016, 09:51

Originally Posted by Zack

i hate how you keep using these faux polite phrases when you're being condescending

"you're being an ass. cheers mate! good day pal!"

stop it

I also don't get what your problem is with me. You've had a weird obsession and you keep inventing new reasons to keep your vote on me instead of talking about actual meaningful candidates for the lynch. It's annoying and I think you're wolfy for it, but you just keep dismissing that and moving the goalposts to make some highhanded remark on what you perceive to my bad behavior.

It's not faux polite Zack, I'm a polite person as a general rule. I find life to be more enjoyable that way. Further, I would say that what you're viewing as condescension is being misread. Regardless, you might genuinely be missing my points as opposed to being a scum who found a target they find easy and is sticking to them, or just someone that tunnels on anyone that accuses them OMGUS style. So to try to rectify that potential situation, I'll break down my "problem" as you state it, with you.

It starts in #109 where I make the observation that I found your rapid votes to be fishy. Please note I also made the observation it could be due to your fellow players having a solid opinion of you, saying "That could simply be his personality, we have some very good townies on my board as well."

In #190 I conflate you and Dp101, though you don't really see where I'm confusing the two of you until #193. That's when I make claims about you that are actually arguments DP101 makes. You then, validly, question what the hell I was talking about, and then through out the "lolpressurevotes" comment.

In #197 I point out we use a different style, and try to not be a dick in response to your belittling statement. I again confuse you for Dp, going into detail about why that plan was bad. In the next post, #198, you note that you didn't say the things, and then instead of wondering how I made the mistake, you just say I'm full of it, which is surprising because you also read Dp's posts, and should have recognized the source, but whatever, that's fine.

Then, where it should have stopped, in #206, I acknowledge my mistake. I apologize to you for making unfounded arguments, and explain why I use pressure votes. Instead however in #216, you ignore my apology, and instead attack my logic as wolfy. At this point, the only reason my vote is on you is because I haven't gotten around to unvoting, and I'm not making further arguments against you, but you're being hyper defensive anyway.

In #228 I call you out on that, addressing your question about how many people were voting for you, and commenting that picking one part of my argument out and ignoring the rest as context is invalid. I also note a few posts down in response to Cass that my choice of Cass as chancellor wasn't in relation to you, but stood by itself based on their arguments.

There is a long lull, then you pick up on my post #390 where I explain how I feel day 1 is more for setting baselines. You say "isn't the best way to establish trends and analysis to treat it seriously and play it like any other day?" The next post you say you can't understand why people read me as town, followed by an argument saying it "seemed like artificial support from wolfbros." Two posts later you drop a vote on me with no further reasoning given.

I address that I feel I've been playing the day just like I would any other day in #404, responding directly to your comments in depth, and noting that your vote is sketchy. Rather than deal with it, you jump to a Tu quoque fallacy, saying that I can't call your argument about me bad because I said people early voting for you was potentially suspicious.

Then the real fun begins. In #406 you say "and if you actually read what i said instead of inserting your own interpretation as you seem wont to do, you'd realize that comment was an afterthought as a possible explanation for the number of inexplicable townreads on you" The problem is you gave zero other reason for putting a vote on me. Reading it as your justification, sandwiched between your vote and a comment on how day 1 should be played. Then you try to insult me with your "if you need me to explain..." comment.

I then drop some serious responses to your arguments, two nice pretty paragraphs worth. Your (non) response is to say you don't understand what I'm talking about and that my second paragraph is "rich". You don't respond to any of my arguments, you try to blow it off while attempting to insult me yet again.

In #413 you try to drive another shot at me with your "making up new reasons not to change his vote from me" comment, that ignores the arguments I gave that you evidently didn't feel were worth understanding or responding to.

That's pretty much our entire engagement prior to the 700's. I respond to your "second paragraph is rich" comment, to which your only response is to accuse me of not making reads, which I had been doing, and ignore you asking what my thoughts on the wagons were, which you asked after I said I was leaving, and responded to shortly after I posted when I returned.

Then In #749 I make my only statement that could be less than polite when I point out you're being an ass. A statement I will repeat here. You have, for whatever reason, decided you have a problem with me. I don't see you insulting anyone else, so I must be special in that department. I've been polite to you, as I am to everyone. I don't act condescendingly, I simply pointed out repeatedly that you were being non-responsive to my posts. You ask a question, I answer, and then you pretend I never said anything, or cherry pick out one or two things. Its either rude, wolfy, or both. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt, and assuming its wolfy, because I don't know you and I can't imagine you have found a reason to dislike me already.

I'm done with this argument Zack. You have no valid reason to vote against me. You have no valid reason to be rude to me. Regardless I don't think either will change, but I've wasted enough energy on this. If you bring up new comments, like the observation about the voting with no reps having been selected yet, I'll be happy to engage with you on that, as for the rest, come up with a better reason to vote for me, or not, I don't much care at this point.

Cheers.

TLDR: Zack has no valid reasons for voting for me or being rude, he doesn't respond to my arguments, and that's wolfy as hell.

**Jabbz** · 12-19-2016, 10:01

Originally Posted by Jabbz

It may be my irritation with his style, but I also find Zack's support for Sooh to be off, even when faced with the line by line argument against Sooh that (I can't remember who it was, and it's late so I'm not going to look for it) made with their 5 post breakdown.

Originally Posted by Zack

what?

I'm referencing this.

Originally Posted by Zack

i hear ya it's a decent case

not sure if i will follow because of ego and competing for n1 kill etc

Originally Posted by Zack

what?

You talk about not voting for them because of competing for n1 kill. You have a weak argument against me, and only one other person is currently voting for me out of 21. Hell, I'm not even 2nd behind Sooh, that would be Visor, then tied for third would be you, me, elbarto and monty. The idea that I'm competition for Sooh with their 5 votes seems unlikely. This is your only articulated reason for not voting for them, and it comes off as an attempt to avoid committing to whether someone is fishy or not, something scum buddies often like to do.

**Jabbz** · 12-19-2016, 10:02

And with that, I'm crashing. It's 1:02 ugh, so did not realize it was this late. Gnight all.

**Zack** · 12-19-2016, 10:03

instead of wondering how I made the mistake, you just say I'm full of it, which is surprising because you also read Dp's posts, and should have recognized the source

is this a joke??

it's all just hogwash and i really don't even know to respond to it because it's just... ridiculous and rife with hypocrisy. The line I quoted above is particularly absurd and shows that you seem to have a lot of trouble even understanding how I might be thinking.

**Zack** · 12-19-2016, 10:04

Originally Posted by Jabbz

I'm referencing this.

You talk about not voting for them because of competing for n1 kill. You have a weak argument against me, and only one other person is currently voting for me out of 21. Hell, I'm not even 2nd behind Sooh, that would be Visor, then tied for third would be you, me, elbarto and monty. The idea that I'm competition for Sooh with their 5 votes seems unlikely. This is your only articulated reason for not voting for them, and it comes off as an attempt to avoid committing to whether someone is fishy or not, something scum buddies often like to do.

that line was obviously not serious

I also as a rule don't like to lynch claimed PRs on d1, how incredibly wolfy of me.

**Zack** · 12-19-2016, 10:09

also you don't understand how the lynch works, re-read the opening posts

iirc renata and i are both in contention for district rep (in different districts) and both voting you, so you are in fact a viable wagon

i also already explained the claimed PR thing with sooh, which you ignored

there's also plenty of time left for me to change my vote

this is what i have been talking about when i say you keep twisting my words and actions to justify a vote on me. How many times can it be an "accident"? You either ignore other things I have said, misattribute things others have said to me, or misrepresent it. And then you wonder why I'm annoyed with you or how I could possibly think you're being wolfy.

Like, HALF of your reason for voting me was for something dp101 said. When it was determined that I didn't say it, HE did, you completely dropped it. How come you didn't then think dp101 was suspicious? Because it's all just made up crap.

**Zack** · 12-19-2016, 10:12

i don't get the "easy target" thing either, winston (?) mentioned it too

you are not an easy target, half the game thinks you're town for some inexplicable reason

but whatever, there's a narrative to write

**Choxorn** · 12-19-2016, 10:14

Originally Posted by atheotes

Tally # 4
	Blue	Green	Red
Choxorn		Zack

You missed my district vote for Cuth.

Originally Posted by Jabbz

It's not faux polite Zack, I'm a polite person as a general rule. I find life to be more enjoyable that way. Further, I would say that what you're viewing as condescension is being misread. Regardless, you might genuinely be missing my points as opposed to being a scum who found a target they find easy and is sticking to them, or just someone that tunnels on anyone that accuses them OMGUS style. So to try to rectify that potential situation, I'll break down my "problem" as you state it, with you.

It starts in #109 where I make the observation that I found your rapid votes to be fishy. Please note I also made the observation it could be due to your fellow players having a solid opinion of you, saying "That could simply be his personality, we have some very good townies on my board as well."

In #190 I conflate you and Dp101, though you don't really see where I'm confusing the two of you until #193. That's when I make claims about you that are actually arguments DP101 makes. You then, validly, question what the hell I was talking about, and then through out the "lolpressurevotes" comment.

In #197 I point out we use a different style, and try to not be a dick in response to your belittling statement. I again confuse you for Dp, going into detail about why that plan was bad. In the next post, #198, you note that you didn't say the things, and then instead of wondering how I made the mistake, you just say I'm full of it, which is surprising because you also read Dp's posts, and should have recognized the source, but whatever, that's fine.

Then, where it should have stopped, in #206, I acknowledge my mistake. I apologize to you for making unfounded arguments, and explain why I use pressure votes. Instead however in #216, you ignore my apology, and instead attack my logic as wolfy. At this point, the only reason my vote is on you is because I haven't gotten around to unvoting, and I'm not making further arguments against you, but you're being hyper defensive anyway.

In #228 I call you out on that, addressing your question about how many people were voting for you, and commenting that picking one part of my argument out and ignoring the rest as context is invalid. I also note a few posts down in response to Cass that my choice of Cass as chancellor wasn't in relation to you, but stood by itself based on their arguments.

There is a long lull, then you pick up on my post #390 where I explain how I feel day 1 is more for setting baselines. You say "isn't the best way to establish trends and analysis to treat it seriously and play it like any other day?" The next post you say you can't understand why people read me as town, followed by an argument saying it "seemed like artificial support from wolfbros." Two posts later you drop a vote on me with no further reasoning given.

I address that I feel I've been playing the day just like I would any other day in #404, responding directly to your comments in depth, and noting that your vote is sketchy. Rather than deal with it, you jump to a Tu quoque fallacy, saying that I can't call your argument about me bad because I said people early voting for you was potentially suspicious.

Then the real fun begins. In #406 you say "and if you actually read what i said instead of inserting your own interpretation as you seem wont to do, you'd realize that comment was an afterthought as a possible explanation for the number of inexplicable townreads on you" The problem is you gave zero other reason for putting a vote on me. Reading it as your justification, sandwiched between your vote and a comment on how day 1 should be played. Then you try to insult me with your "if you need me to explain..." comment.

I then drop some serious responses to your arguments, two nice pretty paragraphs worth. Your (non) response is to say you don't understand what I'm talking about and that my second paragraph is "rich". You don't respond to any of my arguments, you try to blow it off while attempting to insult me yet again.

In #413 you try to drive another shot at me with your "making up new reasons not to change his vote from me" comment, that ignores the arguments I gave that you evidently didn't feel were worth understanding or responding to.

That's pretty much our entire engagement prior to the 700's. I respond to your "second paragraph is rich" comment, to which your only response is to accuse me of not making reads, which I had been doing, and ignore you asking what my thoughts on the wagons were, which you asked after I said I was leaving, and responded to shortly after I posted when I returned.

Then In #749 I make my only statement that could be less than polite when I point out you're being an ass. A statement I will repeat here. You have, for whatever reason, decided you have a problem with me. I don't see you insulting anyone else, so I must be special in that department. I've been polite to you, as I am to everyone. I don't act condescendingly, I simply pointed out repeatedly that you were being non-responsive to my posts. You ask a question, I answer, and then you pretend I never said anything, or cherry pick out one or two things. Its either rude, wolfy, or both. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt, and assuming its wolfy, because I don't know you and I can't imagine you have found a reason to dislike me already.

I'm done with this argument Zack. You have no valid reason to vote against me. You have no valid reason to be rude to me. Regardless I don't think either will change, but I've wasted enough energy on this. If you bring up new comments, like the observation about the voting with no reps having been selected yet, I'll be happy to engage with you on that, as for the rest, come up with a better reason to vote for me, or not, I don't much care at this point.

Cheers.

TLDR: Zack has no valid reasons for voting for me or being rude, he doesn't respond to my arguments, and that's wolfy as hell.

And I thought Pizza's textwalls were bad...

Seriously, make your point more succinctly, or quote some of the posts you're referring to, or something, because this is more or less a bland wall of text, it's hard to see the evidence if you don't quote anything Zack has actually said, and I can't really parse a lot of it to make sense of what your argument is.

**Visor** · 12-19-2016, 10:16

cuth how do you sleep at night?

why on earth do you think I am scum, what in GODS NAME is wrong with my push on Sooh.

GO READ WHAT I QUOTED AND REFUTE ANY SINGLE PART OF IT.

I want you to TELL ME that the 25 posts of absolute NOTHING in relation to the game at hand is villagery. PLEASE. Tell me it is how a villager plays the game. From someone who is up to date and continually catches up and provides absolutely ZERO relevant thoughts on the game state at numerous times.

And you think I am a wolf pushing that for ????????????????????????????? reasons?

TELL ME HOW SHE IS A VILLAGER FROM THE POSTS SHE HAS MADE.

I didn't want to go all caps, but you seem to be interested in showcasing some serious performance art, so please, show me.

**Visor** · 12-19-2016, 10:21

Originally Posted by Cuthillius

meh i disagree with the case on sooh

i think it's bad

i think she's always utr

and i think visor is making a subpar push on him

his play is very similar to the hydra game i think

didn't read the last three pages, but i did ctrl+f my name

and saw glimpses

monstr is trending up a little

i still trust zack over cass

Sooh is always UTR? WHAT. You do realise I am calling her out for saying LITERALLY NOTHING in 25 posts? Not NOT ENOUGH.

How is it SUB PAR

Did you read a THING I SAID?

in the hydra game I joked around the entire game because the rest of my team bar zack was COMPLETELY INACTIVE.

**Zack** · 12-19-2016, 10:23

DISTRICT ONE

Schema - bleh
Cuthillius - weird and bleh
Renata - fine
Choxorn - meh
Dp101 - meh
Jabbz - wolf
dicetosser1 - meh

DISTRICT TWO

Winston Hughes - meh
BSmith - has he made a post?
Visor - town
Csargo - has he made a post?
Riedquat - has he made a post?
El Barto - bleh
Monstrbro - town

DISTRICT THREE

Montmorency - meh
Al Sipsclar - has he made a post?
Sooh - claimed pr but otherwise bleh
Cass_ - town
GeneralHankerchief - meh
Zack - (mm)
atheotes - town

---

well that was kinda depressing

anyways good night, i'll be here before eod

**Montmorency** · 12-19-2016, 10:24

As scum, Zack vs. Jabbz ~~brings~~ would bring me great joy.

Je ne regrette pas de rire

But Visor ruins it. Maybe Sooh can vig him.

Tell me it is how a villager plays the game.

Why should we believe that it isn't?

**Zack** · 12-19-2016, 10:25

Originally Posted by Visor

cuth how do you sleep at night?

why on earth do you think I am scum, what in GODS NAME is wrong with my push on Sooh.

GO READ WHAT I QUOTED AND REFUTE ANY SINGLE PART OF IT.

I want you to TELL ME that the 25 posts of absolute NOTHING in relation to the game at hand is villagery. PLEASE. Tell me it is how a villager plays the game. From someone who is up to date and continually catches up and provides absolutely ZERO relevant thoughts on the game state at numerous times.

And you think I am a wolf pushing that for ????????????????????????????? reasons?

TELL ME HOW SHE IS A VILLAGER FROM THE POSTS SHE HAS MADE.

I didn't want to go all caps, but you seem to be interested in showcasing some serious performance art, so please, show me.

Originally Posted by Visor

Sooh is always UTR? WHAT. You do realise I am calling her out for saying LITERALLY NOTHING in 25 posts? Not NOT ENOUGH.

How is it SUB PAR

Did you read a THING I SAID?

in the hydra game I joked around the entire game because the rest of my team bar zack was COMPLETELY INACTIVE.

fake wolfy anger

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

**Zack** · 12-19-2016, 10:26

Originally Posted by Montmorency

As scum, Zack vs. Jabbz ~~brings~~ would bring me great joy.

Je ne regrette pas de rire

But Visor ruins it. Maybe Sooh can vig him.

Why should we believe that it isn't?

Sometimes I wonder if we are of the same species.

**Montmorency** · 12-19-2016, 10:28

Interspecies love is real, Futurazack.

**Visor** · 12-19-2016, 10:31

Zack, before I blow a gasket at cuth tunneling me d1 yet again

how likely do you think that this is a repeat of mountainous?

**Visor** · 12-19-2016, 10:32

also the discussion about who is being rude re zack and jabbz is stupid

just play the game

**Zack** · 12-19-2016, 10:37

Originally Posted by Visor

Zack, before I blow a gasket at cuth tunneling me d1 yet again

how likely do you think that this is a repeat of mountainous?

Reasonably? I dunno

I think he's being absurd which unfortunately is par for the course

But not really in the way that I think he acts as town? Idk, i can't even comprehend why he is pushing you.

I think he has decent wolf equity but so do a lot of people and he at least is someone that will get easier to read with time

It's super late and i made like fifteen typos trying to post this on my phone in bed

**Zack** · 12-19-2016, 10:38

Yikes that was stupid and went nowhere

Just ignored everything i said after"reasonably"

**Visor** · 12-19-2016, 10:40

alright cuth you have infuriated me enough that I went and quoted every single one of your posts regarding me from mountainous

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: