Representative Democracy [Concluded]

[Monstrdude]

how do people itt right now feel about barto

i'd like us to consolidate

All of my meh but not enough time to iso probably

[Monstrdude]

Hardclaim: Town Watcher

She's watches people

at night

[Sooh]

I think you put Zack in the lead. I was told Cass would be Rep and Chancellor. Dont know if it is true.

She can be both?

Idk what to do now.

[atheotes]

tied sooh and el barto afaict

what? only the Reps vote will be counted.

[Choxorn]

Vote: BSmith

Sorry for my absence - busy weekend, when I was barely able to peek out at the thread. And now I have to work, so I'm giving up on my catch up effort. Voting now based on the 200+ posts I was able to read so far. See you all tomorrow, maybe.

Vote: Cass_
Vote: Zack

Why BSmith? I know you haven't read much, but you have to give better reasons than that.

Vote: Al Sipsclar

[Cuthillius]

what? only the Reps vote will be counted.

either way

[Monstrdude]

Why BSmith? I know you haven't read much, but you have to give better reasons than that.

Vote: Al Sipsclar

You have nothing else to say about the thread?

[atheotes]

She can be both?

Idk what to do now.

Vote Cass, you already trust her to be the Chancellor. Why not the rep as well?

[Cuthillius]

schema

vote me as rep

or someone else

but renata ain't going to be rep

so

ball in your court

please consider fast

[Sooh]

Unvote

Vote: Cass

[Askthepizzaguy]

:30 legal votes

:31 won't count

Stop posting before :32 please.

[Choxorn]

You have nothing else to say about the thread?

I have other things to say, but not the time to say them before the deadline.

[Cuthillius]

this'll be fun

[Sooh]

Unvote

Vote: Cass

Listening to my scum read.

*rolls eyes*

[Monstrdude]

Glgl I believe in us

[Cuthillius]

Glgl I believe in us

you obv have more faith in mankind than i do

[Monstrdude]

I have other things to say, but not the time to say them before the deadline.

Glgl

[Monstrdude]

you obv have more faith in mankind than i do

If I believe we will win hard enough we have to

[Askthepizzaguy]

Stop voting now.

Tallying...

[Askthepizzaguy]

:32 now,

No more posting please.

[Askthepizzaguy]

If my initial tally is correct, there will be a lynch tie, and the Chancellor will have to decide it.

Therefore, I'll double check it, and you folks shouldn't wait up. It could be a while before I have a decision.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Person District/Chancellor/Lynch

Schema Renata Cass GH
Cuthillius Cuth Zack Sooh
Renata dp101 Cass Choxorn
Choxorn Cuth Zack Al Sipsclar
Dp101 dp101 GH choxorn
Jabbz dp101 Cass Zack
Dicetosser1 Dice Cass Monty

Winston Visor Cass El Barto
Bsmith Visor Visor Al Sips
Visor Visor Visor Cuthillius
Csargo Winston Cass Sooh
Riedquat Visor Visor Visor
El Barto El Barto El Barto Winston
Monstrbro Monstr Monstr Winston

Montmorency GH Cass Visor
Al Sipsclar Zack Cass Bsmith
Sooh Cass Cass atheotes
Cass_ Cass Renata El Barto
Generalhank GH Zack Sooh
Zack Zack Zack Jabbz
Atheotes Cass Winston El barto


District Representative:
Dp101: Representative for District 1 (3/7 votes, winner)
Visor: Representative for District 2 (4/7 votes, winner)
Cass: Representative for District 3 (3/7 votes, winner)

Chancellor: Cass (9/21 votes, winner)
Zack: 4
Visor: 3

Lynch vote: Tie.
Dp votes for Choxorn
Visor votes for Cuthillius
Cass votes for El Barto
choxorn-Cuth-ElBarto tied.

Pop vote:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

El Barto: 3
Sooh: 3
choxorn: 2
Al Sips: 2
Visor: 2
Winston: 2
Zack: 1
Monty: 1
GH: 1
Cuth: 1
Bsmith: 1
atheotes: 1
Jabbz: 1

Cass, in her position as chancellor, decides tie.
She can lynch her own suspect, El Barto, or lynch choxorn or Cuth. It’s up to her. But it must be between those three.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I will now go back and thoroughly double check each person one by one. If you spot an error, PM me.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Verified Lynch Votes

Vote: Choxorn

Vote: Cuthillius

Vote: El Barto

Chancellor election not close, gonna accept the results for now.

Looking at Reps just in case.

[Askthepizzaguy]

November 8th, 2016
Election Night




District One

In a surprising upset victory, dp101 was elected to serve as the Representative of District One, narrowly defeating the early favorite Cuthillius. While not a landslide victory, and with most of the voters having voted against him, dp101 promised to do his best to represent ALL of the voters in district 1.

He gave a speech talking about togetherness, and unity, and other synonyms you'd find in a thesaurus, but he did little to reach out to the under-represented "Choxorn should live" demographic, mostly made up of choxorn himself. When asked for comment, choxorn noted that he felt like the new Representative didn't represent his interests very well, and took severe exception to dp101's campaign promise to string him up by his own zombified intestines. The harsh campaign rhetoric left choxorn chilled to the bone, cold to the touch, and in a corpse-like trance.

Dp101, eager to unite the people of his district, offered to take choxorn out for some McDonald's, and even offered to share his fries, but ultimately, the candidate failed to convince choxorn of the greater good of the "lynch choxorn" policy position. Political commentators noted that the choxorn voting bloc would have been a difficult sell to begin with. Quite the uphill battle indeed. Now it was up to dp101 to convince the newly elected Chancellor of his choxorn-killing platform.

District Two

Meanwhile, at Visor campaign headquarters, the candidate was seen throwing more shrimp on the barbie, drinking Foster's, and eating a Vegemite sandwich, while riding a kangaroo who was also surfing. In the middle of the desert. Mate.

He was interrupted by a wallaby who was petitioning the government for the right to marry a koala while carrying a gun. Visor promised to look into it, citing the recent Supreme Court decision Knife v Notaknife, believing it was possible for him to press the matter through the courts, if not through the legislature.

Just then, an aide pulled up in a Subaru Outback filled with puppies, and told Visor to put down the sandwich and hear the good news. It seemed that Visor had won the race for representative for District Two, in a clear majority victory. Visor soon gave a speech promising to rid the world of people who look like Cuthillius, sound like Cuthillius, and have a name spelled exactly like Cuthillius. Cuthillius could not be reached for comment, but Visor took the opportunity to speak to him specifically. "Cuthillius" Visor began, "it's nothing against you in particular, friend. I just have a certain set of principles and I am entitled to my beliefs. It just so happens they all line up against the continued existence of you and people who are nobody else but you. I'm sure you understand."

Those in the audience cheered for their Representative's platform. It must have been the puppies.

District Three

Supporters gathered in a large gymnasium to hear that Cass_ had been narrowly elected to represent District Three. They erupted in wild applause. Zack and GH stood outside, bickering between themselves, each referring to the others' supporters as a bunch of "splitters". Many inside the gymnasium gave victory speeches on Cass' behalf, and promised that soon enough, they would finally inform Cass of their decision to force her to run for office.

But not yet, because it was an extra a-special secret ballot and they didn't want anyone to know what the result was, even the candidate.

Democracy works in mysterious ways.

Very hush hush.

Illuminati confirmed?

much later....

Cass 2016 National Campaign Headquarters
New York City
New York County
New York State
NYuk, NYuk, NYuk


All across the city, on bilboards, on the sides of buildings, on rooftops, and even written in the sky with a complicated fireworks display, and in holograms that appeared in the middle of traffic for some reason causing many multi-vehicle accidents, the Cass Campaign had successfully flooded the market with stories of a candidate who would bring hope and change. As far as they eye could see, the campaign had left its mark, like graffiti. In fact, it was written in graffiti as well. Then covered up with posters. Then the posters were covered in bumper stickers. Then the bumper stickers were covered in buttons. And then the buttons were covered in stickers. Everywhere, the candidate's face, name, and slogan could be found. It was impossible to get away from it all. Even people who didn't vote for Cass were covered from head to toe in "I voted for Cass" stickers.

The best part about all of this was the fact that the Candidate was nowhere to be found, and no one was entirely sure if anyone had actually let her know that she had just been elected Chancellor. That poor, poor girl. What a rude surprise awaited her. Oh well. The people had spoken. The Secret Service finally located her, threw her in a burlap sack, and flew her to Campaign headquarters to deliver her victory speech. They tossed her on stage and, finally, they let the Cass out of the bag.

She was instantly surrounded by reporters. They started asking her tons of questions. In the newspapers the next day, the candidate was quoted repeating the campaign slogan "Who the heck ARE all of you people?" She then reiterated her campaign promise to "find out what the hell is going on here" and, when asked for a comment about her victory, the honorable Madam Chancellor-Elect was quoted as saying "you people are all seriously messed up in the head".

She gave a very brief victory speech, asking people in the audience for bus fare to the airport, and also, if someone in the audience could possibly loan her the money for a one-way airplane ticket to get home. But then she was whisked away in a motorcade and forced to take the oath of office at the Palace of the Chancellor, because apparently the United States has one of those now. I hear it has a lot of gold, perhaps way too much gold, and also, monogrammed towels. And the Luxor Sky Beam for good measure, why not? I'm sure it doesn't cost that much to relocate it to Washington.

Lynch incoming....

[Askthepizzaguy]

Nov 9th, 2016

The next day, at the victory rally, Madam Chancellor Cass was handed a gun and told to execute whoever she wanted. She began protesting this choice being forced upon her, and declaring how insane and inhumane this entire process was, not to mention a gross violation of the Constitution, several state and federal laws, not to mention international laws against extrajudicial killings. Her supporters cheered for her ever louder, even as she called them all lunatics. Finally, at their insane and relentless urging, she closed her eyes, and reluctantly shot blindly into the crowd of her own supporters.

"I dunno I dunno I dunno... should I kill him or should I kill him? Why is this even a choice? I don't knowwww..... ahhh, all this pressure is on me! It's too much pressure! I can't look!!!"

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Cass shot and killed....

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

choxorn

who turned out to be...

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

a Mafia goon.

Proving once again that democracy is the worst form of government

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

...except all the others that have been tried.

"WHAT!?!?" cried Cass, in shock and disbelief. The crowd began chanting her name again. Cass became dizzy and slumped to the floor, resigned to the madness.

The US Treasury immediately began printing Cass' face on the 1 dollar bill, telling George Washington to "take a hike". The Treasury Secretary was overheard referring to the first President and founding father as "overrated", saying Madam Chancellor Cass was "obviously better".

Night will be extended 24 hours due to the late decision.

It is still night. Do not post.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Night of the Inauguration

Not everyone was celebrating the election results. It seems that certain fringe groups took exception to the new leadership. They made their presence known, for in front of the Palace of the Chancellor there was a burning effigy hanging by the neck....

Or, wait. That's not an effigy, that's a person! It seems that...

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Sooh was killed. Town Watcher.

Still alive:


DISTRICT ONE

1. Schema
2. Cuthillius
3. Renata
4. Dp101
5. Jabbz
6. dicetosser1

DISTRICT TWO

1. Winston Hughes
2. BSmith
3. Visor
4. Csargo
5. Riedquat
6. El Barto
7. Monstrbro

DISTRICT THREE

1. Montmorency
2. Al Sipsclar
3. Cass_ [Still Chancellor]
4. GeneralHankerchief
5. Zack
6. atheotes

Districts do not need to be re-drawn yet.

New district representatives will need to be elected.

No chancellor election.

Today you will be electing district representatives and voting to lynch someone only.

You will need to meet minimum participation requirements if you failed to do so yesterday. No single-posting, in other words.

[Askthepizzaguy]

@Dp101
@El Barto
@Monstrbro
@GeneralHankerchief
@Montmorency
@Cass_
@Renata
@Al Sipsclar
@Cuthillius
@Zack
@dicetosser1
@atheotes
@BSmith
@Winston Hughes
@Jabbz
@Schema
@Visor
@Csargo
@Riedquat


IT IS DAY. YOU MAY POST.

Day lasts 48 hours from the :30 minute mark.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Okay so when I checked in on Monday a few hours after the lynch I had 13 pages staring at me. So if you ask me for specifics on what happened in the final 24 hours of D1, you're going to be out of luck.

I saw that Renata made a nice point on someone not following a logical train of thought (hell, that might have even been choxorn?) so I like her.

Somebody else had a good argument too that I noticed but I might be imagining things.

Oh also I'm perfectly fine with Cass remaining entrenched in power for as long as possible considering the result yesterday.

Vote: Cass_

[Montmorency]

From yesterday's events we have hard-cleared Renata, Cass, DP101, and (nearly-so) atheotes. They are inarguably the towniest players now.

Let's talk about the Choxorn affair in its sequence:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Early game vote for Zack.

I present to you: The Mighty and Fabulously Sexy Zaccino!

Vote: Zack

Later entry, with town reads on Renata, Cuth, and GH, expressing agreement with Zack on subject of role claims.

I've been spending the past couple of hours reading through the thread trying to catch up. Don't have a lot of good reads on anyone yet, lots of people I'm totally unfamiliar with. Zack still looks good, I'll keep my chancellor vote on him. Slight town reads on Renata, Cuth, and GH. Speaking of which, Vote: Cuth for District One. El Barto and Monty are still impossible to read, and while I don't want that to be an excuse that lets them whomp us like they did last game, I also don't want to reflexively vote them just for last game either. Sooh I was going to vote before she claimed PR. I still don't like her, and I echo what Zack said about her here:

I also hate generic PR claims and don't see what the point is of soft-claiming and trying to string everyone along unless you have some kind of uber-secret mafia-killing thing of doom going on, and it would be an easy claim to lie about because you're not being specific, and I don't like how she's reacted to pressure, but I also don't think she's scum for it.

No real opinion yet on most people.

Final post for the time, a comment on Jabbz' posting.

You missed my district vote for Cuth.

And I thought Pizza's textwalls were bad...

Seriously, make your point more succinctly, or quote some of the posts you're referring to, or something, because this is more or less a bland wall of text, it's hard to see the evidence if you don't quote anything Zack has actually said, and I can't really parse a lot of it to make sense of what your argument is.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Renata makes her negative assessment of Choxorn's entry (835).

Immediately after, Visor joins in condemning the Choxorn post.

100% agree (not on that necessarily but that chox post is Bad)

A few minutes later, he posts a comprehensive reads/leans list, marking Renata as lock town for her drawing attention to Choxorn, and making his own read on Choxorn as "wolfy". He puts Choxorn as lynch candidate above only Cuthilius and El Barto. One of his reads is a frivolous comment on Riedquat.

Renata - town, last posts solidified that read for me.
Choxorn - wolfy, recent post is a bit of pinger.

Riedquat - needs to post more

Then Visor makes an addendum to his reads post, for little value. With Riedquat having only one post at the time, there was no point in speaking like this of him, giving leans. "Possibly town" on a hunch???

"Need a few flips" to feel comfortable with reads is unimpressive in itself, all the more so when he had no problem with discomfort throughout the day or immediately prior to this post.

Thoughts?

I could potentially slide Cass up a spot I guess, I just need to see some more game related things.

Think Riedquat possibly town on a hunch.

Er, that was supposed to be Dicetosser not Dicktosser SORRY.

Need a few more flips to feel comfortable with the progression of my reads

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Atheotes remarks that Renata is trending up for her Choxorn case.

Winston finds Renata's flow towny. Winston responds to one of Choxorn's posts with a complaint.

Of all the things you could have talked about, why did you choose this?

Jabbz responds to Choxorn's lament on textwalls, sticking to his disappointment with Zack.

I tried repeatedly to get these idea's through Zack's head. Using direct quotes. It didn't work. If this doesn't work, that's fine, but I made the effort. Moving on.

Cass' notes on Choxorn's main post~.

#783 Forgot game started, Reads: Zack still looks good, Town Renata, Cuth, GH. Cuth rep for District One. El Barto / Monty impossible to read. Was going to vote Sooh before she claimed PR. Nil scum reads.

Monstrbro thinks Renata is town.

Renata is Probably Town (tm)

Monstrbro comments on Cuth-Chox. Choxorn evaluated overall as barely villagery.

the district vote on cuth seems like it's w/w if choxorn is a wolf but meaningless if villager

Three posts don't seem particularly alignment indicative but if anything I think the way he's approaching certain people like echoing Zack's sentiment just flow really well so if anything I guess lightly villagery but only barely

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Atheotes votes Choxorn.

Sooh's attack on atheotes gets well underway. This casts a small shadow over her. Renata, Zack, and others defend atheotes. Cuthilius is willing to vote Renata for rep over DP101 as more reliable or robust (999).

Cuthilius finds Renata's reads on Monstrbro towny (991).

Schema sees Renata trending up and acknowledges Choxorn's posts, asks for meta on him.

I don't think I ever vote Renata today. I don't know anyone's play style, but her consistency in tone and responsiveness to all players is a positive for me. More than anything. I need to do a full ISO on her because of the sheer amount of content. I go from bad to okay, not quite ready to go here.

I noticed Choxorn's three posts. Anyone have thoughts on about how much content I might expect from him?

Schema takes full scum lean on Visor.

I might be ready to make a read on Visor. Take that back. Scum leans.

Cuth speculates on how scumChox votes. Switches back to voting Sooh shortly after.

in our district, i could see scumchox electing me just because he thinks i would be a bad rep for town

DP comes in to put himself up for the Rep position and votes Choxorn (1025)

Sooh finally votes atheotes after this, looks to win the position of District Rep (1047).

Schema likes Sooh and doesn't like Atheotes.

Forgive me if this has been covered, but I'm townreading @Sooh and now I'm interested in why you are townreading @atheotes. What town motives do you see in their play?

Schema votes Renata for rep (1123).

On page 39, Bsmith changes rep vote to Visor ("to test double vote") and Sooh changes rep vote to Zack.

Atheotes petitions Cass on the lynch.

Cass, please choose between Choxorn and Cuth

Sooh hardclaims Watcher (1170).

Chox substantively closes the day by showing up EOD to vote Al Sipsclar, who a bit earlier appeared to make ritual-vote on BSmith and said little else (1175).

All of this looks clearing for DP, Cass, and Renata, and overwhelming in favor of Atheotes on top of previous behavior. But rather than assessing others in relation to them, right now the focus is on how Visor relates to it.


Visor's tone changes notably in his final activity of the day, which comes right after Renata opens the case on Choxorn. His claimed double-vote never manifests. Strikingly, he makes numerous pleas toward prospective Reps to vote Cuth with him. This is striking because even one (of the two other) reps voting with Visor would conceal any double vote effect should it exist, since 2-1 is indistinguishable on our part from 3-1: the result is the same. His calls for consolidation were just meant to erect a front that would give him a pass from putting up.


I'd also like to broach what I was hinting at earlier respecting the claim. Look here at Visor's comment just prior to Chox events that

I'm going to take a bit of a break on D2 from any sort of leadership action, as I don't wish to burn myself out completely. It is likely that my vote does not change from Cuthillius, and I would like support from the other likely electors.

This is in other words a statement that he would not use his power on D2, toward the end of avoiding a burnout. I think his statement reflects the broader mechanical truth that Pizza would never grant a player, town or Mafia, an unlimited double vote. It could conceivably be more than a one-shot, but at best it would have an alternate-day effect. Visor was laying ground to avert consequences from future inconsistencies, without admitting details of the power. Since Visor went inactive before EOD, and DP had not voted Choxorn yet, and District 1 was still up in the air between Renata, Cuth, and DP, there is no argument that Visor is cleared by virtue of not taking action to save Choxorn, who anyway was killed by tiebreaker ability.
One of Cuth or Visor must be scum, opposite alignment. Who Cuth is in turn sheds light on Sooh, since Cuth was one of the few to carry a renewed push against Sooh late in the day. There is also a technical scenario in which Visor and Cuth were furiously bussing, and Visor never planned to apply special powers to lynch him. However, most players do not like the strategy of intense bussing from D1, and regardless it does not lessen the need to lynch Visor.

EDIT: Sooh is town, as we now know. Pending...