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  1. #1
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Berlin this time

    Quote Originally Posted by InsaneApache View Post
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    The appeasers, apologists and ‘useful idiots’ have been out in force over the festive season, busily lighting candles, declaring ‘Ich Bin Ein Berliner’ and proclaiming that the murderous attack on the Christmas market had nothing to do either with Islam or mass immigration. Thinking of them prompted me to pluck from my shelf one of my favourite books, a slim tome entitled ‘Ourselves and Germany’, written in the winter of 1937 by the Marquess of Londonderry. Otherwise known as Charles Stewart Henry Vane-Tempest-Stewart, or ‘Charley’ to his pals, the Marquess could neither write well nor read men well, but his book is nonetheless riveting. It’s a timeless reminder of where an educated man’s moral cowardice and intellectual stupidity can lead.

    The Marquess resigned as Secretary of State for Air in 1935, and spent the next two years scuttling back and forth to Germany as an unofficial emissary of Appeasement. Hitler, who extended his distinguished visitor ‘every consideration and courtesy’ was simply misunderstood by the British people, wrote Charley. So were Hermann Goering and Joachim von Ribbentrop, and that was the fault of Britain’s ‘cheap and popular press’, which twisted their words and turned the minds of the public against the Third Reich.

    Charley wasn’t a bad man; he was just an arrogant and gullible one, who like many educated men of the era, was taken in by Hitler. The Fuhrer, for all his faults, was adept at hoodwinking his enemies by telling them with a polite smile what they wanted to hear. The Marquess’s cousin was Winston Churchill, who never misread Hitler, and he crops up in another book I’ve recently read, ‘Conquering Islamic Totalitarianism’, by François Fillon, the centre-right candidate in France’s presidential election.

    Fillon asks his readers to imagine for a moment if, in these sombre times, they could think of ‘Winston Churchill or Charles de Gaulle, sitting at their desk, head in their hands, moaning ‘Where are we heading? Who are we? What is our identity?’.’ He scoffs at the idea, and in the next paragraphs declares that the West must look to the two wartime leaders for inspiration ‘faced with Islamic Totalitarianism’.

    It’s a fight on two fronts, explains Fillon, against the Islamists themselves, and against the left, whom he damns for their ‘imbecilic sophism’, adding that they are ‘ideologically blind’ and suffering from a ‘paranoia of Islamophobics’. He makes no apology for drawing parallels between Nazism and Islamic extremism and vows to extinguish the ‘Spirit of Munich’ that he says permeates much of left-wing ideology. ‘Because let there be no mistake’, he writes, ‘these are the same people who bleated for pacifism and collective security in the 1930s when Hitler began re-arming a Germany still weak. These are the same people who cowardly celebrated the sinister Munich Agreement and claimed that peace had been saved’.


    Fillon writes also that the time for accepting the unacceptable is over. After each new outrage, ‘we go through the same sadly familiar and repetitive scenario with the president and the politicians lighting candles to commemorate the massacre and observing the rituals of compassion’. In Angela Merkel’s case, it was laying a white rose at the scene of slaughter, an act she described as ‘incomprehensible’. Only it wasn’t, it was all too comprehensible to those who predicted that her decision to open Germany’s borders was a monumental misjudgement. Incomprehensible are the blunders made by the German security services who had been tracking Anis Amri since March; incomprehensible are the German privacy laws that meant the media wasn’t able to show a photograph of Amri; incomprehensible were the words of a German journalist who tweeted that the best response to the massacre was ‘patience, empathy and humanity’.

    Patience for what? Until it’s our turn to be shot, knifed, blown up or run over by the Islamists? Speaking days after the attack in Nice last July that left 86 people dead, the then Prime Minister of France, Manuel Valls, said:

    ‘I need to tell the truth to the French: Terrorism will be part of everyday life for a long time.’

    That statement confirmed to the French that their government prioritised political correctness above their protection. Terrorism need not be a part of everyday life if Europe controls its borders, outlaws Salafism, expels hate preachers, deports illegal immigrants and failed asylum seekers, imprisons all returning IS fighters and, above all, stops tolerating the intolerance of Islamic extremism, whose objective regarding Europe is conquest not cohabitation.

    Writing in the Guardian, the historian Timothy Garton Ash warned that the ‘Berlin Christmas market attack could unleash forces of intolerance to threaten liberal ideals across the continent’. He was alluding to the forces of far-right fascism, which indeed are a concern, but they are on the rise only because a generation of European leaders have failed to confront Islam’s ‘forces of intolerance’.

    Meanwhile, Islamic terror attacks in the Middle East have killed thousands of Christians, Jews, Yazidis and other minority faiths, and in his pre-recorded message for Radio Four’s ‘Thought for the Day’, Prince Charles warned that ‘all of this has deeply disturbing echoes of the dark days of the 1930s’. Islamofascism is the clear and present danger. In the past two years its foot soldiers have killed 250 people in Paris, Nice, Brussels, Saint-Étienne-du-Rouvray, and Copenhagen. While its ideological warriors have made big advances, under a creeping barrage of ‘Islamophobia’, against democratic free speech so that now only the bravest dare stick their head above the parapet of political correctness.

    Witness Theresa May’s appeasement in front of Parliament when she was given the chance to support the gymnast Louis Smith, who had been ostracised because of light-hearted mockery of Islam. ‘We value freedom of expression and freedom of speech in this country’, May told the Commons. ‘That is absolutely essential in underpinning our democracy, but we also value tolerance of others and tolerance in relation to religions.’

    This age of appeasement must come to an end, and François Fillon in 2017 has the opportunity to redefine Europe’s attitude towards Islamism. ‘Fatalism is no way to fight fanaticism’, he writes in his book, adding that a more forceful approach is urgently required to prevent a third world war. If he’s elected president of France in the spring he must follow through on his pledge because Europe desperately needs a strong leader, a man like Churchill, who from the outset understood that evil must never be appeased.


    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/12...s-facing-west/

    Just a counter to the above article posted by Beskar. I'll let you lot judge.
    A completely egocentric piece of hysterial bullcrap.
    If we can adjust to global warming, we can also adjust to terrorism. Whether I wait patiently to get maimed by Islamists or to die to multi-resistent bacteria, food poisoning or simply starvation is all the same to me. In fact a bomb or a bullet may be quicker than slowly getting eaten from the inside.
    The rest of the text partially doesn't fit the timeline in Beskar's link and then he takes the most outrageous leftist positions and seems to ascribe them to the entire left, much like leftists call everyone on the right Nazis.
    If this Nazi wants to polarize, he does a wonderful job, but I say if we keep terrorism around, it creates more jobs and economic growth, so more power to them, nothing else is important.

    Don't agree? Well, Donald Trump dismantling the Affordable Care Act may kill a few thousand people every year, but who gives a crap as long as he "saves jobs", right? Surely one can agree with him...

    Quote Originally Posted by InsaneApache View Post
    Hells Bells talk about useful idiots!
    Please expand, who are the idiots, why and how do you know them so well?
    Last edited by Husar; 12-23-2016 at 12:35.


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  2. #2
    Clan Clan InsaneApache's Avatar
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    Default Re: Berlin this time

    I think you just proved his point.
    There are times I wish they’d just ban everything- baccy and beer, burgers and bangers, and all the rest- once and for all. Instead, they creep forward one apparently tiny step at a time. It’s like being executed with a bacon slicer.

    “Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy.”

    To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticise.

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  3. #3
    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Berlin this time

    Quote Originally Posted by Husar View Post
    A completely egocentric piece of hysterial bullcrap.
    If we can adjust to global warming, we can also adjust to terrorism. Whether I wait patiently to get maimed by Islamists or to die to multi-resistent bacteria, food poisoning or simply starvation is all the same to me. In fact a bomb or a bullet may be quicker than slowly getting eaten from the inside.
    The rest of the text partially doesn't fit the timeline in Beskar's link and then he takes the most outrageous leftist positions and seems to ascribe them to the entire left, much like leftists call everyone on the right Nazis.
    If this Nazi wants to polarize, he does a wonderful job, but I say if we keep terrorism around, it creates more jobs and economic growth, so more power to them, nothing else is important.

    Don't agree? Well, Donald Trump dismantling the Affordable Care Act may kill a few thousand people every year, but who gives a crap as long as he "saves jobs", right? Surely one can agree with him...

    Please expand, who are the idiots, why and how do you know them so well?
    The problem is that advocates of the most outrageous positions on the Left are in charge of the mainstream Left in Britain. List all the ridiculous positions that the fringes of the British Left have taken in the past, all the cosying up to terrorists and whatnot as long as they were anti-Anglo-America, and you have a list of friends of Jeremy Corbyn. And not just Corbyn, but also the current occupiers of the top jobs in the Shadow Cabinet. Out of the top four jobs in HM's opposition, only Thornberry (shadow Foreign Secretary) doesn't have that history, and probably only because she hasn't been in politics as long as the other three have. Appeasers and friends of Islamofascism? Seems an accurate description of the positions taken by Corbyn (Leader of opposition), McDonnell (shadow Chancellor) and Abbott (shadow Home Secretary).

  4. #4
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Berlin this time

    Quote Originally Posted by InsaneApache View Post
    I think you just proved his point.
    Blatant lie.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
    The problem is that advocates of the most outrageous positions on the Left are in charge of the mainstream Left in Britain. List all the ridiculous positions that the fringes of the British Left have taken in the past, all the cosying up to terrorists and whatnot as long as they were anti-Anglo-America, and you have a list of friends of Jeremy Corbyn. And not just Corbyn, but also the current occupiers of the top jobs in the Shadow Cabinet. Out of the top four jobs in HM's opposition, only Thornberry (shadow Foreign Secretary) doesn't have that history, and probably only because she hasn't been in politics as long as the other three have. Appeasers and friends of Islamofascism? Seems an accurate description of the positions taken by Corbyn (Leader of opposition), McDonnell (shadow Chancellor) and Abbott (shadow Home Secretary).
    Now you make this about Britain and Corbyn again.
    As if all the references to crazy island politics in IA's terrible link weren't enough already.
    Can't British people talk about anything without constantly drawing parallels to their own island?
    No wonder you left the EU to be alone with yourselves. And then you blame Middle Easterners for inbreeding...

    Is that offensive? Well, IA's link taught me that appeasement is not a viable tactic...
    May also explain Corbyn's actions while we're at it.


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  5. #5
    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Berlin this time

    Quote Originally Posted by Husar View Post
    Blatant lie.

    Now you make this about Britain and Corbyn again.
    As if all the references to crazy island politics in IA's terrible link weren't enough already.
    Can't British people talk about anything without constantly drawing parallels to their own island?
    No wonder you left the EU to be alone with yourselves. And then you blame Middle Easterners for inbreeding...

    Is that offensive? Well, IA's link taught me that appeasement is not a viable tactic...
    May also explain Corbyn's actions while we're at it.
    The kind of appeasement that's offensive to most Britons is the kind that blames the host culture for not being accepting enough of the incoming culture, when the incoming culture are the ones acting. Eg. the Rotherham child abuse scandal where councillors feared being called racist if they drew attention to the network of Asian males. Not an unreasonable fear if you look at the professional offence takers. Go a bit further and look at groups like Stop the War, which are notorious for having been taken over by Islamists and Islamism sympathisers. These are the groups that the current Labour leadership travelled in for decades (there was a furore over a planned appearance at an SWP do a couple of months back, which was too far even for some of Corbyn's diehard supporters, but Corbyn went anyway). These are groups that take positions that are patently outrageous to the vast majority of British people. But they're the heart and soul of Labour's leadership. So to disclaim IA's article to argue that taking an outrageous position and claiming it to represent the Left in general is unfair. They do represent the British Left's mainstream leaders, at present.

    See also the guy who accosted the British Jewish Labour MP with classic anti-semitic comments, at the launch of Labour's study on anti-semitism in Britain. Corbyn took his side of course, since he was a longtime friend and supporter of his. These "outrageous" people are friends of the leader of the mainstream Left, a man who, as his ministerial appointments show, values his friends above everything else.

  6. #6
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Berlin this time

    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
    So to disclaim IA's article to argue that taking an outrageous position and claiming it to represent the Left in general is unfair. They do represent the British Left's mainstream leaders, at present.
    So it is merely completely misplaced in a discussion about this particular event and German politics?
    Given that IA's article blamed Merkel in stark contradiction to the events as outlined in Beskar's article, I am now left to wonder why the article references the German attack at all if it is merely about British politics? Could have saved himself the embarassment.

    I am not sure why an attack in Germany is brought into an article about how terrible British people are. It doesn't get better if the author gets basic facts wrong:

    Only it wasn’t, it was all too comprehensible to those who predicted that her decision to open Germany’s borders was a monumental misjudgement. Incomprehensible are the blunders made by the German security services who had been tracking Anis Amri since March; incomprehensible are the German privacy laws that meant the media wasn’t able to show a photograph of Amri; incomprehensible were the words of a German journalist who tweeted that the best response to the massacre was ‘patience, empathy and humanity’.
    First he talks about the troubles of appeasement and then he wishes for a German surveillance state and makes a completely misplaced statement about Angela Mekrle inviting all the foreigners. The perp entered Europe in 2011 and Germany a month before Angela Merkel "invited everyone". the attack on our privacy laws is completely unfounded and neither does he explain what he thinks the fault of German securiity services was. If he wants a Gestapo back that puts people in front of fake courts and executes them for talking the wrong way, then he should stop whining about Hitler and just say so.


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  7. #7
    This comment is witty! Senior Member LittleGrizzly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Berlin this time

    The other topics which Corbyn was mentioned in went quiet so this was seen as the best place to link it in...

    Terrorism in Germany? Probably Corbyn's fault.

    If you think about Corbyn has constantly opposed Western policy in the Middle East. The West's ME policies have been hugely successful, look what we have achieved. So any problems still existing in the Middle East are the fault of people like Corbyn...

    It makes perfect sense to me.

    I would like to offer a personal apology as a Corbyn supporter Husar, I'm clearly culpable.
    In remembrance of our great Admin Tosa Inu, A tireless worker with the patience of a saint. As long as I live I will not forget you. Thank you for everything!

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  8. #8

    Default Re: Berlin this time

    To oppose a policy is not to convey a better one.
    Vitiate Man.

    History repeats the old conceits
    The glib replies, the same defeats


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