French Presidential Election

[Husar]

Ethnic mixing frequently leads to poverty and 'unfair' treatment.

No, that is not correct. Look at well-off immigrants, universities where people have similar backgrounds, multinational corporations and countries like Monaco that only really accept wealthy people from everywhere. Ethnic issues barely come up as long as you mix wealthy people, it's when you mix the poor that you get problems. It is the economic problem that leads people to look for a scapegoat and then look for differences.
The unfair treatment may sometimes be a result of ethnic differences, but then the root cause is racism and I strongly disagree with accepting racism instead of fighting it. Why bow to the demands of irrational ideology that belongs in the Middle Ages? Especially if the majority does not follow it unless there are the aforementioned economic issues.

[Viking]

Beyond the first sentence, nothing of what you write there strictly contradicts what I wrote.

[Husar]

Beyond the first sentence, nothing of what you write there strictly contradicts what I wrote.

And why would I have to strictly contradict what you wrote? I'm only here to show that my argument is better supported than yours.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

No, that is not correct. Look at well-off immigrants, universities where people have similar backgrounds, multinational corporations and countries like Monaco that only really accept wealthy people from everywhere. Ethnic issues barely come up as long as you mix wealthy people, it's when you mix the poor that you get problems. It is the economic problem that leads people to look for a scapegoat and then look for differences.
The unfair treatment may sometimes be a result of ethnic differences, but then the root cause is racism and I strongly disagree with accepting racism instead of fighting it. Why bow to the demands of irrational ideology that belongs in the Middle Ages? Especially if the majority does not follow it unless there are the aforementioned economic issues.

A good dose of truth to that, Husar, but "haves" and "have lesses" seem to be a norm in all societies and eras. There will always be some potential for conflict in that.

Neither the communist (every one shares equally with none having more) nor 'lift all boats capitalism' (things are unequal, but the have lesses are so well off they don't really mind) approaches to ending this tension have dealt with the issue.

[Husar]

A good dose of truth to that, Husar, but "haves" and "have lesses" seem to be a norm in all societies and eras. There will always be some potential for conflict in that.

Neither the communist (every one shares equally with none having more) nor 'lift all boats capitalism' (things are unequal, but the have lesses are so well off they don't really mind) approaches to ending this tension have dealt with the issue.

Indeed, there is however also a difference between a larger and a smaller wealth inequality. And then there is absolute poverty, which, when bad enough, seems to additionally cause problems.The difference between "only" having last year's flatscreen TV model and worrying about how to feed your children tomorrow while those swimming in money say it's all your own fault anyway.
The elimination of all conflict cannot be achieved with any approach I'd guess.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Indeed, there is however also a difference between a larger and a smaller wealth inequality. And then there is absolute poverty, which, when bad enough, seems to additionally cause problems.The difference between "only" having last year's flatscreen TV model and worrying about how to feed your children tomorrow while those swimming in money say it's all your own fault anyway.
The elimination of all conflict cannot be achieved with any approach I'd guess.

Of course it cannot be eliminated. Conflict, in the form of argument, is central to good decision making and avoiding groupthink. We could do with a bunch more folk who had more conflict management tools in their kit aside from "fight or flight" though.

[Husar]

A bit difficult to do that without contradicting me.

Whether it is toxic substances or bacteria (or both) that makes it inadvisable to lick the floor; I won't do it regardless.

In the immigration debate, I remain focused on outcome. I am not focused on whether it is 'racism' or the culture of the immigrants that is leading to problems. I just don't want the problems, whatever the exact cause.

Such lazy attitudes tend to lead to unforeseen or even predictable consequences, I find it by far preferable to use more thorough approaches to problem solving.
And from a moral standpoint it seems rather selfish to, in the worst case, throw others under the bus to solve one's own problems. If our society always solved problems like that, you may find yourself under a bus sooner or later...

Of course it cannot be eliminated. Conflict, in the form of argument, is central to good decision making and avoiding groupthink. We could do with a bunch more folk who had more conflict management tools in their kit aside from "fight or flight" though.

I think that is where education becomes important. And the right social circumstances of course. Which again tend to improve as wealth increases. I'd be careful though to say crime in general decreases with wealth, to some extent it just becomes less visible and less physical, which may still be an improvement of course. Up to the point where things like tax evasion cause poverty and therefore violent crime again etc.

[Gilrandir]

Back to the topic:
it seems Fillon has a scandal with his wife to deal with which may affect the election outcome.
http://www.france24.com/en/20170124-...paid-wife-aide
A chance for Macron?

[Tristuskhan]

Macron is currently in Beirut, collecting support within the french embassy with the benediction of our current presidency. Thrills....

Macron is a wet firecracker, as we say here. Lil'bankster Celeb'!

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Back to the topic:
it seems Fillon has a scandal with his wife to deal with which may affect the election outcome.
http://www.france24.com/en/20170124-...paid-wife-aide
A chance for Macron?

Oh, a money scandal. I thought it was something earth shattering, like a French politician preferring their spouse over having a lover....