Trump Thread

[Montmorency]

Lying effectively and gaming a system effectively, Husar, are not signs of intellectual shortcomings but, as Monty alluded to using Comey's quotation, moral and ethical shortcomings. I am unwavering in my assessment of Trump as an asshat, I merely refuse to fall down the "I think he is an asshat so everything he is and has ever done must be evil, all of his ideas must be stupid, all of his supposed successes must have been faked, etc." It is akin to Stalin lifting Trotsky out of all the photos in order to make a fabrication real. Look at them item by item and credit what is done well and damn what is done poorly.

Trump should be assessed on what he does in the office and how well he does it. Reviews, so far, are mixed at best.

But what has he done well (holistically in life)? He lies by volume, not effectiveness.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

But what has he done well (holistically in life)? He lies by volume, not effectiveness.

I edited my post. You were too quick and are responding to the abridged version.

Nothing he has ever done is right, nothing worked, he always was wrong, it was all given too him, he only knows how to shout louder whether it is whining or crying, he is the font of all evil, the bastard is responsible for us losing the Vietnam war, he was probably the thug in the crowd hired by the Pharisees to get them stirred up enough for Pilate to crucify Jesus.

With that mantra we can now close the thread. Why bother going through the particulars when the decision is cast in stone already.

[Montmorency]

I understand it is difficult to conceive of any particulars, but that is what I'm asking.

Although an aside again: why would you support the Republicans if you don't like "big government is the only way"? Any alleged distinction against the Democrats here is so marginal that without considering any other factors you would be obliged to give Republican and Democratic candidates an equal hearing.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

I understand it is difficult to conceive of any particulars, but that is what I'm asking.

Although an aside again: why would you support the Republicans if you don't like "big government is the only way"? Any alleged distinction against the Democrats here is so marginal that without considering any other factors you would be obliged to give Republican and Democratic candidates an equal hearing.

I have no problems with particulars. I am inundated with a litany of strident comments that all boil down to Trump is wrong because he is Trump. A reasoned discussion of the particulars would be refreshing.

You may parse out your reasons for loathing him fairly well, but the bulk of the no Trump crowd is so pro hoc ergo propter hoc about everything that nothing gets evaluated except in the light of preconceived judgement.


Many of the GOP are nearly as big govt. as the Dems, that has to be acknowledged. Most of those GOPers tend towards toleration and not wanting to change things rather than towards accelerating things towards one big happy government like a goodly portion of the Dems. There are even a few GOP types who are actively seeking to dial back government in a measured fashion. When I spot one of those, I can actually vote happily. I am not, for the most part, a social issue traditionalist, so those issues rarely bother me.

Gary marriage cheapens the sanctity of marriage? Laughed out loud at that one. The only persons who can cheapen my marriage are myself and the wife. I dislike "hate crimes" laws not because the crimes are not heinous, but because I do not believe the government should be in the business of punishing thoughts. Gun control? Not in favor as it is the last tool of the citizenry to combat tyranny. However, since when they wrote that amendment folks were more or less ubiquitously trained with guns -- and if you missed you went hungry -- a few laws requiring safety training and storage etc. are no less than reasonable. There are others....

Trump offends me less on a policy level then he does with his poor management style, reactive planning approach, and crass disregard for anything resembling a classy approach to the Presidency.

[rory_20_uk]

People invariably have an impression of someone and then look for facts.

So Trump is a vulgar narcissist who displays almost no traits to be the President. But Obama failed to reach consensus with Congress much of the time, failed to close Guantanamo repeatedly, undertook illegal raids into sovereign states and expanded the use of drones in many others leading to the deaths of thousands of people... whilst hoovering up a Peace Nobel. Equally he flip-flopped on the Middle East (not an easy area for anyone) but he definitely let Russia become the main player by being so timorous. He equally had a vacuous strapline "yes we can" which he mainly failed to deliver on.

He was the outside hope, just like Trump was, Bill Clinton was, Reagan was... The USA seems to constantly pick "outsiders" hoping that they can suddenly sort out the malaise and get frustrated when they fail.

My preferred President to date has been Bill Clinton. As long as his recurrent infidelities did not damage the functioning of the state, that is a relatively small price to pay to have someone who is frankly able to do the job. It is rather unfortunate he ousted the Republican "Royalty" which seems to have caused ire he never overcame.

So I can't stand Trump as a person, but I also think he is a worse President than most in recent memory mainly for having no driver beyond "winning" and having very little interest in what has been won.

[Montmorency]

No particulars? I ask because I've seriously never seen or heard of a person so inferior that didn't end up dead in a ditch after a lifetime of crime and vice.

Look, sure I'll give you this one if Trump manages to beat the investigations, eliminates his opposition and retains his office for a few years or decades.

Half points if he dies within a year of peak power.

Trump offends me less on a policy level then he does with his poor management style, reactive planning approach, and crass disregard for anything resembling a classy approach to the Presidency.

IMO the superficial norms are relatively unimportant to the substance. At least you can laugh about it. Pretty much every President is an asshole. For instance, what LBJ did and how he talked to people was often racist and crass and reprehensible, yet somehow... impressive?

Many of the GOP are nearly as big govt. as the Dems, that has to be acknowledged. Most of those GOPers tend towards toleration and not wanting to change things rather than towards accelerating things towards one big happy government like a goodly portion of the Dems.

This is happening because the past generation of Democrats decided going right of "Eisenhower Republicans" was a good idea.

CLINTON SWIPES THE GOP'S LYRICS

"THE GOOD news is that we may elect a Republican president this year," said Republican consultant Alex Castellanos. "The bad news is that it may be Bill Clinton."

"I hope you're all aware we're all Eisenhower Republicans. We're Eisenhower Republicans here, and we are fighting the Reagan Republicans. We stand for lower deficits and free trade and the bond market. Isn't that great?"

Here is a selection of the "big happy government" Democrats.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

It's a promise that says the market should reward drive and innovation and generate growth, but that businesses should live up to their responsibilities to create American jobs, to look out for American workers, and play by the rules of the road.

Ours -- ours is a promise that says government cannot solve all our problems, but what it should do is that which we cannot do for ourselves: protect us from harm and provide every child a decent education; keep our water clean and our toys safe; invest in new schools, and new roads, and science, and technology.

Our government should work for us, not against us. It should help us, not hurt us. It should ensure opportunity not just for those with the most money and influence, but for every American who's willing to work.

That's the promise of America, the idea that we are responsible for ourselves, but that we also rise or fall as one nation, the fundamental belief that I am my brother's keeper, I am my sister's keeper.

Socialist beats GOP House-majority Whip in 2017 Virginia elections; Democratic colleague responds by trolling him with Soviet flag during floor-talk on corporate-inducements bill (1:52).



Blue Dog party elite explains machine politics to hard-left upstart.



Times a thousand.

Storm the citadel and drive out the occupants. What Corbynites did to Labour may be the only option for left-wing movements.

If you stick with the Republicans, you can integrate those of the Democrats' right flank (i.e. the leadership) who leave, moderate the Republicans a sliver.

Flipping the South sure changed the Republican Party's priorities:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: