Trump Thread

[Tuuvi]

The petro-socialism of Chavez and Maduro has been only modestly better for the people of Venezuela than the preceding Kleptocracy.


They need a mixed economy and a middle class that is somewhat accessible and not closeted off in walled communities looking down over the fields of cardboard and tin homes.


They need a government that encourages foreign investment -- and I mean investment to build, not investments that are vampiric -- along with genuine efforts provide a business framework that encourages their 1% to invest in Venezuela rather than US stock portfolios and Cayman Island money markets.


They need a military that plays by "posse comitatus" rules and which does not intervene in internal politics.


The old government was horrid, the current regime is pretty bad, and their economy is tanking.

On the other hand, I am not seeing anything in the opposition that makes me think they'll stabilize as a moderate republic and successfully tackle their problems....pity.

I'm not in support of the Maduro government, I was just making a sarcastic remark about the way the media has been drumming up support for US intervention in Venezuela. I think the Venezuelan government has legitimate reasons for being suspicious of US aid shipments and the US military should just leave Venezuela alone.

[Husar]

I'm not in support of the Maduro government, I was just making a sarcastic remark about the way the media has been drumming up support for US intervention in Venezuela. I think the Venezuelan government has legitimate reasons for being suspicious of US aid shipments and the US military should just leave Venezuela alone.

Well, it's really hard wioth the intervention stuff. First people tell you to stay out and then, when there is a bloody civil war, they will tell you that you can't just watch and do nothing (bad things happen because good people do nothing) and then you intervene and then they blame you for atrocities and for having chosen the wrong side and for collateral damage, imperialism, etc.

To some extent I would say stay out though, let them sort it out themselves. But then you always have the global competitors who then go in, help one side and gain an ally for their scheming in your backyard. I mean as bad as the USA are in that sense, I don't think much better of Russia or China. Competition is a terrible thing in that sense.

On the bright side, once competition has killed us off through global warming, the planet will be more peaceful again.

[Gilrandir]

On the bright side, once competition has killed us off through global warming, the planet will be more peaceful again.

peaceful, rather pieceful.

[Tuuvi]

Well, it's really hard wioth the intervention stuff. First people tell you to stay out and then, when there is a bloody civil war, they will tell you that you can't just watch and do nothing (bad things happen because good people do nothing) and then you intervene and then they blame you for atrocities and for having chosen the wrong side and for collateral damage, imperialism, etc.

To some extent I would say stay out though, let them sort it out themselves. But then you always have the global competitors who then go in, help one side and gain an ally for their scheming in your backyard. I mean as bad as the USA are in that sense, I don't think much better of Russia or China. Competition is a terrible thing in that sense.

On the bright side, once competition has killed us off through global warming, the planet will be more peaceful again.

Elliot Abrams, Trump's envoy to Venezuela, used humanitarian aid shipments as a cover to ship weapons to the Contras back in the 80's, so it wouldn't be surprising if the US is again trying to smuggle weapons to the opposition in Venezuela. Aside from the army there's also armed citizen militias loyal to Maduro in Venezuela, so it seems the US's actions risk starting a civil war.

Also, Venezuela accepted $9 million in aid from the UN back in November, so it's not as if Maduro is intentionally denying aid to his people. I think the US aid shipments are either an attempt to smuggle weapons to the opposition, or the US guessed in advance that Maduro wouldn't accept the aid after what Abrams did in Nicaragua and the aid shipments are just a ploy to make Maduro look bad.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Elliot Abrams, Trump's envoy to Venezuela, used humanitarian aid shipments as a cover to ship weapons to the Contras back in the 80's, so it wouldn't be surprising if the US is again trying to smuggle weapons to the opposition in Venezuela. Aside from the army there's also armed citizen militias loyal to Maduro in Venezuela, so it seems the US's actions risk starting a civil war.

Also, Venezuela accepted $9 million in aid from the UN back in November, so it's not as if Maduro is intentionally denying aid to his people. I think the US aid shipments are either an attempt to smuggle weapons to the opposition, or the US guessed in advance that Maduro wouldn't accept the aid after what Abrams did in Nicaragua and the aid shipments are just a ploy to make Maduro look bad.

Embarrassing Maduro would, I suspect, be very much in tune with US hopes for Venezuela. I suspect you may well be correct about the 'offer aid which we are certain will be refused' ploy. As to shipping in weapons, we don't have any former OSS types in the administration as did Reagan. Without Casey, the Iran Contra thing just wouldn't have happened. Still, I cannot rule it our entirely.

As to starting a Civil War, I am not certain that it has not already begun.

[a completely inoffensive name]

Meanwhile domestically, Congressional Republicans are pushing for a system of government where the president has total control over the treasury...as long as he is Republican.

Our system of government is hanging on the edge. Mitch McConnell might be the worst thing to happen to American democracy.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Meanwhile domestically, Congressional Republicans are pushing for a system of government where the president has total control over the treasury...as long as he is Republican.

Our system of government is hanging on the edge. Mitch McConnell might be the worst thing to happen to American democracy.

He has not covered the Majority Leader position in glory.

[Strike For The South]

You can oppose Maduro while also opposing US intervention.

Cohens testimony is confirming a lot of what we thought we knew. Gruby hands on cruel, stupid people. I'm sure the administration will hand wave all of this but I can't imagine who would believe them at this point.