Trump Thread

[Strike For The South]

I was just about to post the same thing Monty. It is a horrific example of his presidency.

The terrorist attack in NZ is beyond a tragedy and is an encapsulation of the radicalization of young white men in the west. His manifesto has been described as incoherent, it is only the sense that it lacks a structure. It certainly has a narrative and that narrative is white supremacy. That is something that should be stated unequivocally. This is a far right terror attack committed by a white supremacist. People should not be misled by his manifestos non sequiters or general lack of sense. His purpose was very clear.

Coming together is good but only means something if this kind of terror is named and persued with the same energy that Islamic terror is. Anything less is lip service meant to assuage valid anger. In fact it should be pursued with more vigor because it is the bigger threat with quasi state backing.

[Montmorency]

I was just about to post the same thing Monty. It is a horrific example of his presidency.

The terrorist attack in NZ is beyond a tragedy and is an encapsulation of the radicalization of young white men in the west. His manifesto has been described as incoherent, it is only the sense that it lacks a structure. It certainly has a narrative and that narrative is white supremacy. That is something that should be stated unequivocally. This is a far right terror attack committed by a white supremacist. People should not be misled by his manifestos non sequiters or general lack of sense. His purpose was very clear.

Coming together is good but only means something if this kind of terror is named and persued with the same energy that Islamic terror is. Anything less is lip service meant to assuage valid anger. In fact it should be pursued with more vigor because it is the bigger threat with quasi state backing.

It doesn't lack a structure. It's structured like the kind of memes they post on the chans, including 8chan - the home base of at least one attacker, with all the injokes and the like. I like the phrase "Pepe with a gun": IRL shitposting to confuse the liberal globalist cucks and redpill the normies. (The livestream attacker even tried to choreograph the attack according to meme meta.)

Anyway, right-wing Jews have a predictably genocide-ready response to the attack: 'When Muslims attack Jews, the media doesn't report it. Like all the times Palestinians stab Jews in synagogues, it's their favorite thing to do.'

[a completely inoffensive name]

The report has been submitted. We are in the endgame now.

[Montmorency]

The report has been submitted. We are in the endgame now.

Considering all the activity on the back-end, including ongoing cooperation from Rick Gates (Manafort's deputy) and cooperation from figures like Michael Cohen and Michael Flynn that has not been used in prosecutions yet (with the exception of the upcoming trial of Bijan Kian), and the reports from 2 weeks ago that the Special Counsel has renewed its funding through September, I suspect there will be a lot more going on with the investigative side of things. This report should be fodder for further House investigations however.

[a completely inoffensive name]

Considering all the activity on the back-end, including ongoing cooperation from Rick Gates (Manafort's deputy) and cooperation from figures like Michael Cohen and Michael Flynn that has not been used in prosecutions yet (with the exception of the upcoming trial of Bijan Kian), and the reports from 2 weeks ago that the Special Counsel has renewed its funding through September, I suspect there will be a lot more going on with the investigative side of things. This report should be fodder for further House investigations however.

My pessimism is coming out today, I think neither this nor any follow up investigations will have an impact unless the treason arguement is clear and made publicly available.

Election day 2020 is the repudiation of corrupt populism and a turn back towards a real experiment or we find ourselves in a fundamentally different country than we thought.

[Montmorency]

My pessimism is coming out today, I think neither this nor any follow up investigations will have an impact unless the treason arguement is clear and made publicly available.

Election day 2020 is the repudiation of corrupt populism and a turn back towards a real experiment or we find ourselves in a fundamentally different country than we thought.

Sure, but as a narrow procedural prediction I just want to caution that everything Trump-related is one big set of investigations permeating the whole federal apparatus responsible, the findings of the special counsel metastasized these, and they will continue long after Trump leaves office. The Roger Stone trial is in November, and multiple of the big names convicted so far (such as named above) will continue to cooperate on future prosecutions.

[a completely inoffensive name]

Sure, but as a narrow procedural prediction I just want to caution that everything Trump-related is one big set of investigations permeating the whole federal apparatus responsible, the findings of the special counsel metastasized these, and they will continue long after Trump leaves office. The Roger Stone trial is in November, and multiple of the big names convicted so far (such as named above) will continue to cooperate on future prosecutions.

In a sense you are correct. But this is a point with limited in value. Akin to saying about how well set up our defensive line up is for the next few plays when in the bigger picture it is 2nd and goal for the opposition.

The legal battles are only one front, and we must look at the bigger picture to determine if the momentum will be on our side or not. A second Trump term leaves us with a heavily compromised judiciary in 2024, backed by a chamber rigged for conservative states. It really doesn't matter if Trump gets 25 to life in the state of New York after leaving office, the corruption will be too far to extract out except with a tremendous degree of political engagement.

I see Brazil's judiciary sentencing big players on both sides on the aisle for a decade now, attempting to clean house. They're 3 for 4 on former Presidents in jail now? It doesn't seem to make a dent on the culture nor the behavior at this point because everyone is simply in on it now.

[edyzmedieval]

DC & pretty much all American politics are buzzing right now, and the networks are making super prime time money.

[edyzmedieval]

Long awaited, the Mueller Report has been given to the DOJ.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/24/u...t-summary.html

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

And it looks like there's nothing fun in it.

Are we calling him Teflon Trump, yet?

[Shaka_Khan]

I'm not a Trump supporter, but I made this prediction last year. It's this feeling I get after witnessing investigations on different presidents in different countries. From what I've seen, when a president got impeached or arrested, the opposition and the investigators were more quicker and stronger in their actions. The feeling on the recent one felt very different.

[Montmorency]

Here is the summary of the report as offered by Attorney General Barr (and co-signed by Deputy AG Rosenstein). There are two (or moredepending on how you count) major points:

The report further explains that a primary consideration for the Special Counsel's investigation was whether any Americans – including individuals associated with the Trump campaign – joined the Russian conspiracies to influence the election, which would be a federal crime. The Special Counsel's investigation did not find that the Trump campaign or anyone associated with it conspired or coordinated with Russia in its efforts to influence the 2016 U.S. presidential election. As the report states: “[T]he investigation did not establish that members of the Trump Campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities.”

The report's second part addresses a number of actions by the President – most of which have been the subject of public reporting – that the Special Counsel investigated as potentially raising obstruction-of-justice concerns. After making a “thorough factual investigation” into these matters, the Special Counsel considered whether to evaluate the conduct under Department standards governing prosecution and declination decisions but ultimately determined not to make a traditional prosecutorial judgment. The Special Counsel therefore did not draw a conclusion - one way or the other – as to whether the examined conduct constituted obstruction. Instead, for each of the relevant actions investigated, the report sets out evidence on both sides of the question and leaves unresolved what the Special Counsel views as “difficult issues” of law and fact concerning whether the President's actions and intent could be viewed as obstruction. The Special Counsel states that “while this report does not conclude that the President committed a crime, it also does not exonerate him.”

[...] consulting with Department officials, including the Office of Legal Counsel; and applying the principles of federal prosecution that guide our charging decisions, Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein and I have concluded that the evidence developed during the Special Counsel's investigation is not sufficient to establish that the President committed an obstruction-of-justice offense. Our determination was made without regard to, and is not based on, the constitutional considerations that surround the indictment and criminal prosecution of a sitting president.

In other words: Mueller did not find sufficient/threshold evidence that Trump and team coordinated with the Russian government (IRA or GRU) on either the hacking activities or the social media activities. Mueller did not make a decision on obstruction beyond weighing the arguments, but Barr/Rosenstein doesn't think Trump obstructed justice on the basis of the narrow findings they refer to (an obviously tendentious interposition between the investigation and Congress). Finally, Trump is not exonerated in any particular avenue of investigation.

(Barr/Rosenstein reasoning on not charging obstruction is wrong, but it's in Congress' hands now)

Infuriatingly narrow. All this tells us is that there is either no evidence or insufficient evidence that Trump and team went to Putin or Russian military intelligence and asked them to do hacking and the other things. But aiding and abetting computer crimes is not the crux of the issue, establishing a quid pro quo of selling policy for a foreign state's favor and financial inducements (i.e. bribery) is. We already know for a fact, all through merely public revelations, that numerous Trump campaign officials at all levels were coordinating with agents of the Russian (add the Saudis and Emiratis to the list) government throughout 2016, blandishing official policy (like sanctions relief) while attempting to engage with said governments' material support, and thereafter spent 2017 on lying about it after Trump's agenda was stalled in the first month. We just don't know for sure if it is because Trump himself sought and authorized some sort of corrupt bargain for personal gain. Either Mueller did not bother to investigate whether Trump made a corrupt bargain with Russia and other countries as being outside the scope of the investigation, or Barr failed to mention it in his summary - or Mueller just found there isn't enough evidence that it rises to the level of criminality (c.f. Rosenstein holding that it is inappropriate to reveal potentially derogatory information about individuals in the report who were not charged).

And it looks like there's nothing fun in it.

Are we calling him Teflon Trump, yet?

They were calling him Teflon Don since before the Republican nomination. My conclusion, assuming the report has not been badly misrepresented by Barr and Rosenstein, is that Mueller sadly took his remit very narrowly (contra those who thought he was on a "fishing expedition" or else going to "jail the Soviet cheeto"), and as a strict institutionalist did not have the audacity to pursue a maximal inquisition into the President himself. He was always on a fact-finding mission only and never intended to charge the President with anything regardless of the facts. Depending on the actual contents of the report - which we should hope are revealed to Congress/the public as far as is possible; they will also contribute to our understanding of the foreign actors' activities - at best the report was intended only as a reference guide for Congress, towards impeachment inquiry at their discretion, etc. That is, institutionally punting the ball.

Let's hope for the fact-finding in the report to get out, although it may take some time as Barr/Mueller indicate that certain grand jury deliberations, secret information and information pertaining to ongoing cases will be redacted. Much of it, especially the intelligence (i.e. espionage) facets we will probably never see.

[a completely inoffensive name]

Well, my pessimism proved correct.

[Montmorency]

Well, my pessimism proved correct.

I'm optimistic that Trump will eventually be condemned by history as everything we know he is (and definitely not rehabilitated as a brilliant and passionate conservative).

I'm optimistic that he at least finally goes away for tax crimes and bank fraud. Eventually.

[Strike For The South]

I'm optimistic that Trump will eventually be condemned by history as everything we know he is (and definitely not rehabilitated as a brilliant and passionate conservative).

I'm optimistic that he at least finally goes away for tax crimes and bank fraud. Eventually.

The money crimes are seemingly a slam dunk. New York city real estate is crime! ba dum tish.

The report is underwhelming but this in no way changes all the horrid stuff this administration has done so, we kind of where we were yesterday.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

I'm optimistic that Trump will eventually be condemned by history as everything we know he is (and definitely not rehabilitated as a brilliant and passionate conservative). ...

To be rehabilitated as a passionate conservative it helps if you were actually a conservative, as opposed to a narcissistic opportunist ripping off the sincere efforts of Buchanan, dumping them into the intellectual echo-chamber fabricated by Limbaugh and Hannity and spicing that stew with rhetoric designed to send the White Supremacist loons into an onanistic frenzy.

[a completely inoffensive name]

I'm optimistic that Trump will eventually be condemned by history as everything we know he is (and definitely not rehabilitated as a brilliant and passionate conservative).

I'm optimistic that he at least finally goes away for tax crimes and bank fraud. Eventually.

Yes, but he is still just a symptom. The next one won't be as dumb as him.
Tell me how you feel on the odds of the US politics remaining:
* Democratic
* Inclusive
* Liberal

[Montmorency]

Yes, but he is still just a symptom. The next one won't be as dumb as him.
Tell me how you feel on the odds of the US politics remaining:
* Democratic
* Inclusive
* Liberal

Let's just add that insofar as our justice system might permit a man like Trump to die without having first spent time in prison is a failed system. Symptom indeed.

Well, in the long-term: "Socialism or barbarism." As always not because I'm sanguine on the chances for socialism, but because those are literally the only possibilities.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Yes, but he is still just a symptom. The next one won't be as dumb as him.
Tell me how you feel on the odds of the US politics remaining:
* Democratic
* Inclusive
* Liberal

I think the US has only been these things a few times: During Reconstruction Post-Civil War and when the Democrats generally controlled the Government pre-Reagan.

Since Reagan the Congress has been increasingly Partisan whilst the Presidency has been increasingly captured via a cult of personality. Clinton and Obama both appealed to essentially the same hopeful and yourhful demographic using "Star Power" whilst Bush Jnr and Trump both appealed to an electorate frustrated by inequality and frightened of outside influence.

[Montmorency]

I think the US has only been these things a few times: During Reconstruction Post-Civil War and when the Democrats generally controlled the Government pre-Reagan.

Since Reagan the Congress has been increasingly Partisan whilst the Presidency has been increasingly captured via a cult of personality. Clinton and Obama both appealed to essentially the same hopeful and yourhful demographic using "Star Power" whilst Bush Jnr and Trump both appealed to an electorate frustrated by inequality and frightened of outside influence.

Bush Jr.'s appeal being on the basis of an electorate "frustrated by inequality and frightened of outside influence" sounds anachronistic. What makes you say this?

Speaking of Bush and anachronism, for Seamus: McCain ran against Bush in the GOP primaries in 2000. Bush's attacks on McCain were not much less intense and scurrilous than Trump's. What was the media's coverage of this at the time? Cuz there certainly was little evidence of institutional memory in scandalized coverage of Trump's whining and sniping. I guess McCain dropped the issue for the sake of internal politics and the team, so everyone stopped caring (assuming they ever cared)?

(Most notoriously the smear against McCain that he fathered a mulatto bastard, lol)


Also, Trump admin trying to kill ACA again, rejecting the Take Care ("that the laws shall be faithfully executed") clause of the Constitution.

[Strike For The South]

I mean wasn't Bush Jr. appeal "I'm going to cut taxes and expand medicaid" i.e. "compassionate conservatism".

The attacks seemingly get more bizzare each cycle. From inventing the internet, swiftboat, all the slander about, Obama, emails.

[Greyblades]

Do I get to say "I told you so" yet?

[Montmorency]

Someone talk about purges

Funny is, Hitler purged the SA because leadership was unscrupulous and bad for PR among German public and elites. Trump on other hand cares least about PR, and always just wants to skip to the point where formal government institutions are replaced by personal fiat. Fortunately, it is further evidence that he is too stupid and inept to properly consolidate power to himself. (Miller is just a Himmler cosplayer.) Unfortunately, it is the new slippery normal. As always, things will only grow worse, and the worst outcome is the likeliest outcome.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Someone talk about purges

Funny is, Hitler purged the SA because leadership was unscrupulous and bad for PR among German public and elites. Trump on other hand cares least about PR, and always just wants to skip to the point where formal government institutions are replaced by personal fiat. Fortunately, it is further evidence that he is too stupid and inept to properly consolidate power to himself. (Miller is just a Himmler cosplayer.) Unfortunately, it is the new slippery normal. As always, things will only grow worse, and the worst outcome is the likeliest outcome.

Not really a "night of the long knives" thing, Monty. No murders, no show-trials, etc.

OTOH, it really does make this administration look like some kind of train wreck. We are more than two years into this administration and Trump still cannot find a full executive team who will continue to work with him and enable/work for his policy goals (in part because too many of his policy goals are out and out troll-like). There is a lesson in that. Most of the administrations in the developing world are currently more stable than ours. Sad.

[Strike For The South]

So I guess they have dropped the pretense of any sort of policy and goal. The administration has doubled down on lashing out to keep the base good and riled.

The proposal to "release" illegal immigrants into sanctuary cities is truly bizarre. I suppose, like everything else that comes out of the white house, it is a wink and a nod to Trump supporters rather than something coherent. These people would show up in these cities, pay more in taxes than they get in services, and commit less crimes than the natives. Generally speaking, sanctuary cities are sanctuary cities because of the high number of people living in them. Many of these places were probably destinations in the first place. Granted, if this comes to fruition, I hardly think the administration will ask them where they want to go.

The much more serious matter is the threats against Rep. Omar. The president juxtaposing her comments with the terror attacks is pretty much textbook incitement. I don't think it is a stretch to say it me be the most brazen thing he has ever done. The "milder" comments by Crenshaw are in a way, worse.

Omars comments are clearly a critique of the Islamophobia that has come out of 9/11. It is a critique of painting all of Islam with the same brush. You can not watch the (real) video and come away with any other conclusion. So Crenshaw is doing the same thing as Trump just in a more pernicious way. Unless of course he doesn't understand the video. If thats the case, he may have bigger problems.

Haberman pointed out that Trump and co. are centering Omar like they have with AOC. This attempt to paint them as leaders of the Ds is an effort to rile the base in the worst way possible. Desperation? Bigotry? Stupidity? Probably a combination of all thee.

[Montmorency]

Hey, did you know Trump's attorney general Bill Barr is a professional coverup artist going back to Iran-Contra? I'm not here to talk about that.

Instead, let me tell you a fantastical story of an earlier Republican generation:

John Mitchell was Richard Nixon's friend, campaign manager (twice), and attorney general (first term). He believed civil rights, civil liberties, and the Constitution were a trick played upon patriotic Americans by Commies et al. He was one of the few to do time for the Watergate coverup, and was indeed one of those who supervised and authorized the original break-in by Libby and Hunt.

That's prefatory.

He ordered an ex-FBI agent to spy on his wife Martha, who knew something about the Watergate business and intended to disseminate her knowledge to, in her mind, keep Nixon from scapegoating her husband. One day, while his wife was attempting to contact a journalist, this ex-FBI guy broke into her house, destroyed her telephone, knocked her out, drugged her, and abducted her to a hotel room, where eventually she was abandoned when Batman heard her name.

Nixon responded to news of this by claiming Mitchell's wife had a "drinking problem". Mitchell approved.

This ex-FBI agent was Steve King.

In 2017, Trump appointed him ambassador to Czechia.

King's appointment was approved by the Senate without objection in a voice vote.

Ain't history fun?

Bonus: The long-serving white nationalist Rep from Iowa, almost unseated in 2018, is also named Steve King.

[edyzmedieval]

No word on the Report? It's the biggest story right now in US.

[Montmorency]

No word on the Report? It's the biggest story right now in US.

What is there to say? The report elaborates on many things we already knew. The government is straining under the thrashings of a relentlessly-criminal president and his goodfellas, but so far there is not enough evidence beyond a reasonable doubt to convict in a court of law (great campaign slogan that, "not enough evidence to convict").

Too many spent these years comparing the administration's controversies to Watergate (where the principals only mostly got away), and not enough to Iran-Contra (where the Republicans had learned their lesson to always double down, and the principals completely got away, and many of them remain in politics, even the Trump admin, to this day). Barr's reprisal of his lies over Iran-Contra were pitch-perfect from his confirmation on, for example. For 45 years the Right in America has been essentially oriented around preventing an epochal embarrassment like Watergate from dragging down its leadership ever again; their preparations bore fruit 30 years ago and we were complete fools to have let it slide down the memory hole.

Who's gonna do anything about it?

There are confirmed like 20 more investigations into Trump's personal, commercial, and political activities, so that might bear fruit once he's out of office. By now it's actually warranted for the House to begin impeachment inquiries at least on the basis of obstruction; these will fail, but despite that cost it is important to impress upon the public the gravity of Trump's offenses. If this report were the very first news we had of wrongdoing in the present administration, it alone would be damning. Under those much-theorized "normal" circumstances.

But in the end nothing really matters because the Republican Party is committed to overthrowing the rule of law in pursuit of impunity in this country. Our institutions have consistently failed to restrain bad actors outside the margins. There is no alternative to somehow building the next republic from as close to ground-up as we can.


EDIT: A lot of hard-leftists mock the very idea of institutions and rule of law, but I think they are mistaken - what they have identified are the insufficiencies themselves of our extant order, when properly-functioning institutions and rule of law naturally emerging in their ideal civil society would be precisely the bulwark against the perennial ills of oligarchic power and malgovernance that cripple ours and limit its correcting effect.

[Greyblades]

No word on the Report? It's the biggest story right now in US.

Two votes and one investigation, doo dah, doo dah...

I think the last three years will be taught alongside the episodes of the gracchi brothers and cataline as examples of how nation's political classes can work themselves into frenzy and debasement in the face of an agent of change they do not wish to succeed.

Though I must say the degree of self destructive behavior and psychotic delusion this era has seen among those established politicians and press seems unparalelled in history.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Current info at 270 to win suggests only 5 swing states. AZ, FL, MI, OH, WI. Dems win any two and they get the White House. GOP has to win FL plus and two of MI, OH, WI.

That's actually pretty pro dem at this point