Trump Thread

[HopAlongBunny]

The Trump team needed a secure line to Russia!?
Sure, why not; alternative facts or alternative reality?:

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/0...034037268.html

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...20a_story.html

[Gilrandir]

The Trump team needed a secure line to Russia!?
Sure, why not; alternative facts or alternative reality?:

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/0...034037268.html

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...20a_story.html

What about a Russian oligarch ready to testify in exchange for immunity?
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/26/u...fort.html?_r=1

[Greyblades]

Which law are the investigators expecting to be able to charge trump with breaking?

[HopAlongBunny]

A look at the Trump proposed budget, from Canada.
Take away, with low interest rates not much money heads to those who will spend it on necessities, keeping consumer inflation in check; note: low interest rates do not make it to people living on pay-day loans.
The money goes to those who increasingly look for somewhere to "park" it; thus asset inflation largely stocks and real estate. Bubble and bust? Perhaps, but not now (hopefully) and policy may even extend it indefinitely (lol)
Part of the idea being even a bust leaves you with something that you can afford to sit on.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/trum...tion-1.4127880

[spmetla]

Which law are the investigators expecting to be able to charge trump with breaking?

https://www.vox.com/2017/5/16/156502...estigation-fbi
According to Jimmy Gurulé, a professor of law at the University of Notre Dame who served as assistant attorney general for George H.W. Bush and undersecretary of the Treasury for enforcement under George W. Bush

If President Trump asked then-FBI Director James Comey to drop the criminal investigation of General Michael Flynn, this would constitute obstruction of justice under 18 U.S.C. section 1505. Section 1505 makes it a crime to "endeavor to influence, obstruct, or impede" "any pending proceeding … before any department or agency of the United States." Obviously, Trump had knowledge that Flynn was the target of an FBI investigation. The FBI investigation was a "pending proceeding . . . before [a] department or agency of the United States." Further, if Trump had knowledge of a pending grand jury investigation targeting Flynn, his conduct would constitute an attempt to influence or obstruct a grand jury investigation. The FBI was an active participant in the grand jury investigation.

Also, 18 U.S.C. 1512(c)(2) punishes "Whoever corruptly . . . obstructs, influences, or impedes any official proceeding, or attempts to do so." A violation of section 1512 imposes a maximum sentence of 20 years

The prevailing view of constitutional law scholars is that the US president cannot be criminally charged by normal prosecutors, and any charges must be brought by Congress through the impeachment process. Unless Republicans in Congress change their minds, it is doubtful that the president will face any consequences if he is guilty of obstruction of justice.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...-investigation

Legally, it all depends on the findings. If Mueller finds enough evidence, he could try to indict and convict anyone in the Trump campaign. That may include Trump, although there’s generally a consensus among legal experts that Trump could not be prosecuted until after he’s out of office — with a big caveat that this has never actually been tested in court, so the underlying assumption could be wrong.

“It’d be hard for him to go after Trump directly for all sorts of reasons,” Josh Chafetz, who studies the intersection of law and politics at Cornell Law School, told me. “But he could do an awful lot of damage to Trump without ever filing charges against Trump. Remember: In Watergate, [President Richard] Nixon was named as an unindicted co-conspirator, but none of the special prosecutors actually tried to indict Nixon.”

[Greyblades]

I was referring to the russian connections, the obsruction of justice charge has allready been established as completely unuseable due to the ongoing investigation being in no way impeded by the firing of comey.

[Gilrandir]

For all you Simpsons' fans out there:

[Husar]

I was referring to the russian connections, the obsruction of justice charge has allready been established as completely unuseable due to the ongoing investigation being in no way impeded by the firing of comey.

Apparently you didn't read the post:

If President Trump asked then-FBI Director James Comey to drop the criminal investigation of General Michael Flynn, this would constitute obstruction of justice under 18 U.S.C. section 1505.

It's not about him firing Comey, but whether he asked Comey to end the investigation before he fired him.

[Greyblades]

Apparently you didn't read the post:

It's not about him firing Comey, but whether he asked Comey to end the investigation before he fired him.

No, it isnt.

A request to stop without the authority of an order or the use of intimidation is not obstruction of justice and I cannot find any example of it being used as a basis for the charge.

In this case the wording of his statement was such that it cannot even reliably determined as request or expression of opinion.

For the Russian connections it's once again the same thing as with the obstruction, the President himself will not be charged with anything. His advisers and circle of friends/partners however can and possibly will be charged, be it like General Flynn and the charge of conducting diplomacy as an individual and not disclosing his foreign connections. Kushner may be in the same boat as Flynn and a whole host of other members of his white house staff, that's what the multiple investigations will determine.

I've heard arguments stating it is common incoming president's staff to be in contact with foreign nations in preparation for the transfer. Is this true and could it be applied to this situation?

Though none of these will probably be able to directly implicate Trump, the fact that he surrounds himself with possibly compromised persons will weaken his role as one to 'make America Great.' All these investigations however may reveal that he was trying to obstruct any look into to his associates which could be grounds for impeachment though at this moment that's highly unlikely. In a year's time though the damage of these investigations to himself and his party may make him such dead-weight that the Republicans may feel compelled to get rid of him in favor of having Pence as president.

I disagree with the idea that the republicans will just get rid of Trump just for being a dead weight. The republican establishment have wanted him out since day one and his continuing position is entirely predicated upon his base popularity. If they try to remove him without a undeniable reason, such as an actual obstruction of justice, a significant portion of thier electorate will revolt against the party.

They could have Pence now if they wanted, but they'd forfiet the next few elections and risk a schism.

Having many friends (in law enforcement and military) that are adamantly pro-Trump I know that right now they aren't swayed by anything that's happened. They see him as under attack by the the 'liberal' media and the 'deep state bureaucrats' and stand by him 100%. They think the Russian charges as BS and just an attempt by the left to subvert the election results.

I do not think their viewpoint are invalid, considering the devolution of some of left wing's media platforms to the level of disinformation previously dominated by Fox news and the frequent leaks from inside the government, many of which that werent in the public's interest to be revealed and only served to undermine Trump.

I can't imagine however that they'll stand by him if his closest associates start going to jail (unless he pardons them). Unfortunately politics are so partisan and everyone is so wrapped in their echo chamber of self-righteousness that they refuse to acknowledge the faults of their side because the other is the enemy.

I wish I could disagree with that.

A problem in both our contries over the last few decades is that the ruling partys have too often been able to survive as a ruling party despite so much incompetence only due to the even worse performance of the opposition.

Sometimes it seems as if self improvement has just gone out of style.

[spmetla]

I was referring to the russian connections, the obsruction of justice charge has allready been established as completely unuseable due to the ongoing investigation being in no way impeded by the firing of comey.

For the Russian connections it's once again the same thing as with the obstruction, the President himself will not be charged with anything. His advisers and circle of friends/partners however can and possibly will be charged, be it like General Flynn and the charge of conducting diplomacy as an individual and not disclosing his foreign connections. Kushner may be in the same boat as Flynn and a whole host of other members of his white house staff, that's what the multiple investigations will determine.
Though none of these will probably be able to directly implicate Trump, the fact that he surrounds himself with possibly compromised persons will weaken his role as one to 'make America Great.' All these investigations however may reveal that he was trying to obstruct any look into to his associates which could be grounds for impeachment though at this moment that's highly unlikely. In a year's time though the damage of these investigations to himself and his party may make him such dead-weight that the Republicans may feel compelled to get rid of him in favor of having Pence as president.

Remember that just as it was with Nixon and Clinton, it's not the crime itself that ultimately hurt them it was the cover-up/lying.

Having many friends (in law enforcement and military) that are adamantly pro-Trump I know that right now they aren't swayed by anything that's happened. They see him as under attack by the the 'liberal' media and the 'deep state bureaucrats' and stand by him 100%. They think the Russian charges as BS and just an attempt by the left to subvert the election results. The empty gestures such as having the white house illuminated blue to support the police someone gain great traction.

I can't imagine however that they'll stand by him if his closest associates start going to jail (unless he pardons them). Unfortunately politics are so partisan and everyone is so wrapped in their echo chamber of self-righteousness that they refuse to acknowledge the faults of their side because the other is the enemy.

[Gilrandir]

Remember that just as it was with Nixon and Clinton, it's not the crime itself that ultimately hurt them it was the cover-up/lying.

Was there any crime in Clinton's case?