Trump Thread

**Husar** · 08-07-2017, 21:12

How is a TV celebrity and real estate mogul not part of the establishment?

What is the establishment?

Originally Posted by Google

a group in a society exercising power and influence over matters of policy, opinion, or taste, and seen as resisting change.
"he scandalized the Establishment of his day"
synonyms: the powers that be, the authorities, the system, the ruling class, the regime, bureaucracy, officialdom; the status quo, the prevailing political/social order; informalBig Brother; archaicthe regimen
"an irreverent comedy series that dared to poke fun at the Establishment"
an influential group within a specified profession or area of activity.
"rumblings of discontent among the medical establishment"

Don't Republicans often throw Hollywood actors and other celebrities in with the establishment?
Plus his Twitter rants about Obama made him quite famous in political circles as well. He was not as much part of the political establishment, but the Republicans themselves always blame the Hollywood, the Media and political left establishment of colluding to the point of being more or less the same "leftist establishment". See here for example: http://www.americanthinker.com/artic...blishment.html

In the same sense, Trump is part of the rightist establishment.

Or take establishment as elites in the wider sense, like here: http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite...u-brexit/18483

REMAIN: THE LEFT HAS LINED UP WITH THE ESTABLISHMENT

Leftists now put bankers and bureaucrats before the people.

Brexit is a fake revolt’, writes Paul Mason in the Guardian this week: ‘Working-class culture is being hijacked to help the elite.’ A withering article in Vice agrees. ‘Brexit is the upper classes in revolt’, writes Sam Kriss.

Surely someone who brags about how many billions he has is part of the rich social elite aka establishment, no?

**Montmorency** · 08-07-2017, 21:22

Gilrandir is correct. "The Establishment" is not a hive mind.

**HopAlongBunny** · 08-07-2017, 23:51

A 50% cut in legal immigration?
But I thought this was the Growth President!:

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-us...-idUSKBN1AN269

**Gilrandir** · 08-08-2017, 13:23

Originally Posted by Husar

How is a TV celebrity and real estate mogul not part of the establishment?

What is the establishment?

I believe his voters consider establishment to consist of top politicians of the two parties who follow each other at the steering wheel. From their perspective Trump was outside of it.

**Philippus Flavius Homovallumus** · 08-08-2017, 22:28

I was amused.

**Montmorency** · 08-08-2017, 23:27

heresy

**Greyblades** · 08-10-2017, 08:40

Originally Posted by Philippus Flavius Homovallumus

Ask yourself though, could Trump have beat Obama? Would Trump have won the nomination if he was facing Obama as opposed to Sanders/Clinton? The point is not that it "results in bad Presidents" but that the enforced change of candidate often results in a less-impressive offering by the sitting party when the current President is so impressive.

I think by posing the question you are overestimating the popularity of Obama within his own country.

Obama was a domestic failure; the deciding states were the ones that stagnated under his administration and only flipped red because Clinton was actively promising more of the same. 2008 Obama would have run rings around Trump, true enough, but with two terms of general dissapoinment behind him all he would have over trump was eloquence, and that didnt help clinton or the other republican hopefuls in the slightest.

Ultimately Sanders had a better chance of victory than Obama for the same reason as Trump's victory: he was a clear break from the previous status quo.

**Kralizec** · 08-10-2017, 21:03

Trump won with thin margins in a handful of states that handed him a clear majority in the Electoral college, while losing the overall popular vote by almost 3 million. If Hillary Clinton had been a little more popular, or had put more effort in states like Wisconsin, she would have ben president.

Obama had a reasonably high approval rating as an outgoing president. It's just an educated guess, but I think Obama would have beaten Trump in any year, and probably with better margins than he beat McCain or Romney.

"Domestic failure" is in the eye of the beholder, and I don't live in the country myself. All I know is that public approval of the Affordable Care Act has been going up ever since the Republican party has been in a position to actually undo it.

**HopAlongBunny** · 08-12-2017, 08:39

It turns out leaving many posts vacant does have drawbacks.
Team Trump has left many top level gov't posts empty. Defense contractors are left wondering who to talk to about on-going and proposed undertakings:

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-us...-idUSKBN1AR2DT

Otoh maybe Trump is using this strategy to downsize government?

**Greyblades** · 08-12-2017, 16:21

Originally Posted by Kralizec

Trump won with thin margins in a handful of states that handed him a clear majority in the Electoral college, while losing the overall popular vote by almost 3 million. If Hillary Clinton had been a little more popular, or had put more effort in states like Wisconsin, she would have ben president.

Obama had a reasonably high approval rating as an outgoing president. It's just an educated guess, but I think Obama would have beaten Trump in any year, and probably with better margins than he beat McCain or Romney.

I do not, for the simple reason that the rust belt would have rejected him, as the cause of thier decline, harder than they rejected clinton, as the promised continuation. I could see him scraping michigen but without the rest of the rust belt it would require the flipping of florida and north carolina, a feat I dont think would be possible as he only got them by the skin of his teeth when he was in his prime in 2008.

"Domestic failure" is in the eye of the beholder, and I don't live in the country myself. All I know is that public approval of the Affordable Care Act has been going up ever since the Republican party has been in a position to actually undo it.

The approval upswing is based not on the merits of the system but with the context of the obvious failures of the proposed ryan and mcconnell-care.

Obamacare is designed to fail in such a way that makes singlepayer a more desireable choice, with a republican domination of every field this outcome has become impossible, making obamacare little more than a ticking timebomb.