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    Default Re: Trump Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Greyblades View Post
    I do not, for the simple reason that the rust belt would have rejected him, as the cause of thier decline, harder than they rejected clinton, as the promised continuation. I could see him scraping michigen but without the rest of the rust belt it would require the flipping of florida and north carolina, a feat I dont think would be possible as he only got them by the skin of his teeth when he was in his prime in 2008.



    The approval upswing is based not on the merits of the system but with the context of the obvious failures of the proposed ryan and mcconnell-care.

    Obamacare is designed to fail in such a way that makes singlepayer a more desireable choice, with a republican domination of every field this outcome has become impossible, making obamacare little more than a ticking timebomb.
    The article makes the point that the ACA as put together with myriad components lacks the political durability to be a long-term policy; the strategic implication is then that something better has to be imposed sooner or later.

    However, don't forget to separate the strategic element from the policy element to some extent. The law can become moribund if its opponents go far in refusing to implement it - an area where the Trump administration is leading the way - but those states that have with determination used many of the tools the law offers them have seen the greatest outcomes. So while it is an easy law for its opponents to sabotage, from the ideal perspective in governance we like to think that laws aren't going to be sabotaged...

    It's a useful step, although, and in particular served the Medicaid-eligible population very well. Unfortunately, the ideological opponents of Obamacare don't find sympathy for this demographic. The bottom line is that the overall effectiveness of Obamacare contributes to the difficulty of cleanly repealing it.

    More to the point, the Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget estimated last week that partial repeal would increase the number of uninsured Americans by 23 million (other estimates are even higher). If you think blowback to the ACA's enactment was bad for Democrats, just wait for the anti-GOP firestorm that follows that sort of disruption.
    Prescient.

    When the Democrats get their next bite at the apple -- and they will, despite all the hand-wringing on the left and back-patting on the right -- they will have a chance to avoid past mistakes as they try to build a better healthcare system.
    Let's say the more right-wing Democrats would be comfortable staying along the outlines of Obamacare, the mainline Pelosi/Schumer wing would prefer (at least compared to a single-payer plan) universal coverage with a public option balanced by extensive private insurer participation, and as always the Sanders wing wants Medicare-for-all (with a bill pending release in the near future).

    It may seem ironic, but Americans have traditionally preferred really big government that doesn't play favorites when compared with somewhat smaller government that does.
    Sadly so.

    FDR understood that welfare programs work best when they are biggest.

    Roosevelt also demonstrated that the best way to ensure the long-term viability of those programs is to ask people to actually pay for them. For Social Security, that meant a payroll tax.
    I see the author even includes the man's famous words:

    Payroll taxes “were never a problem of economics,” Roosevelt explained to one skeptical adviser:

    They are politics all the way through. We put those payroll contributions there so as to give the contributors a legal, moral, and political right to collect their pensions and their unemployment benefits. With those taxes in there, no damn politician can ever scrap my social security program.



    On a third term for Obama, while he was more popular towards the end than Greyblades makes out, it's hard to see us breaking the 2-term tradition for Obama's sake. Then of course you realize that you would need an overwhelming movement for a Constitutional amendment or repeal (of the 22nd amendment) to even have the opportunity to elect someone to a third term, so in a circular sense if Obama had somehow managed to convince the country and Congress to take that course, and with time to spare for ratification by 2016, he would have been popular enough to run for a third term.
    Last edited by Montmorency; 08-12-2017 at 18:32.
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  2. #2
    Member Member Greyblades's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trump Thread

    On a third term for Obama, while he was more popular towards the end than Greyblades makes out, it's hard to see us breaking the 2-term tradition for Obama's sake. Then of course you realize that you would need an overwhelming movement for a Constitutional amendment or repeal (of the 22nd amendment) to even have the opportunity to elect someone to a third term, so in a circular sense if Obama had somehow managed to convince the country and Congress to take that course, and with time to spare for ratification by 2016, he would have been popular enough to run for a third term.
    To run, but not win.

    Despite assertations of a scandal free presidency the man had accumilated legitimate baggage, even putting aside obamacare and the benghazi incident (of which a legitimate criticism was pounded into the dust by overzealous republicans); Operation Fast and Furious was continued and intensified under his watch, his IRS targeted conservative non profits during 2012, he engaged in the politics as usual he promised to end with his role in the government shutdown, he was responsible for the the drone killing of americans without trial, he turned lybia into a second somalia, tried to do the same to syria, he traded 5 taliban leaders just to secure the return of a US deserter, he sued the state of arizona for following an anti immigration law it's people had voted for, his intrusion of privacy grew to the point it inspired defections in the NSA and the leaks damaged US diplomacy worse than even trump has achieved, he increased the debt to 20 trillion and pushed it past the national GDP, oversaw a period of less economic growth than that of every other president in the last half century.

    This is not considering the callouts he set himself up for: "I'll close guantanamo bay", "If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor”, "We've excluded lobbyists from policymaking jobs", "I Have Always Been Against Iraq", "Nearly one in five women in america have been a victim of rape or attempted rape"; the man was no less a liar than the best of capitol hill and trump would have had about as much material on Obama to work with as clinton, if not more.

    I point to the gallup polls of presidential approval; throughout the entirety of 2015 it was a steady mid 40 and only began to climb in 2016, when the lacklustre of the candidates started to become truly apparant.

    I contend that such approval would not have manifested if it was him who got down in the mud instead of clinton, his shining record now is only due to being allowed to retreat behind the bluster.

    Quote Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name View Post
    White Nationalism is now in vogue with Trump in office.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/12/u...=top-news&_r=0
    Well if we take that metric we can say black nationalism was downright chic even before Obama took his.
    http://www.wnd.com/2010/05/155653/

    As the popularization of communists bolsters fascists; black identitarianism has bolstered white.

    To denounce one and ignore or excuse the other is to encourage both, the best course of action is to let both extremes feel the truncheon with equal enthusiasm.
    Last edited by Greyblades; 08-13-2017 at 10:02.
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  3. #3
    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trump Thread

    The Trump problem has a simple solution:
    https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...pushes-signers
    Quote Originally Posted by Suraknar View Post
    The article exists for a reason yes, I did not write it...

  4. #4
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trump Thread

    Trump is an ass. His incoherence is making Obama's smooth banality look incredibly classy.
    "The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." -- H. L. Mencken

  5. #5
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trump Thread

    It is August 14th, 2017. Trump is still an ass and Putin is still a fascist.
    "The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." -- H. L. Mencken

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  6. #6

    Default Re: Trump Thread

    The Mooch is gone but not forgotten.
    Colbert runs him through a few hoops and the Mooch take it all in stride:



    Scaramucci doesn't bother me; he was hired to do a job (flak for Trump) and he did it very well.
    He was just another shiny object waved at the media to focus on instead of really digging down into policy reversals like:
    voting rights
    environmental regulation rollback
    the budding shiny new conservative court (appearing soon in a courthouse near you)
    etc...
    Last edited by HopAlongBunny; 08-15-2017 at 08:54.
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    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trump Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh View Post
    It is August 14th, 2017. Trump is still an ass and Putin is still a fascist.
    The labeling list has a tendency to expand? Who's the next candidate? Kim? Maduro? Merkel (if Fragony pleases)?
    Quote Originally Posted by Suraknar View Post
    The article exists for a reason yes, I did not write it...

  8. #8
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trump Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilrandir View Post
    The labeling list has a tendency to expand? Who's the next candidate? Kim? Maduro? Merkel (if Fragony pleases)?
    I will define the numbers, labels, and salience of those I choose to list. You, Frags, X-man, et al. are free to list whomsoever you wish.
    "The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." -- H. L. Mencken

  9. #9
    The very model of a modern Moderator Xiahou's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trump Thread

    I took the liberty of splitting the Charlottesville/alt-right discussion off in its own thread. I think it probably deserves one.
    "Don't believe everything you read online."
    -Abraham Lincoln

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  10. #10
    The very model of a modern Moderator Xiahou's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trump Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh View Post
    I will define the numbers, labels, and salience of those I choose to list. You, Frags, X-man, et al. are free to list whomsoever you wish.
    Political Label Generator
    I'm a minarchist neo-libertarian!.

    (Your post inspired me to Google for 'political label maker' on a lark. That site was my first result. )
    Last edited by Xiahou; 08-16-2017 at 01:54.
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  11. #11
    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trump Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh View Post
    I will define the numbers, labels, and salience of those I choose to list. You, Frags, X-man, et al. are free to list whomsoever you wish.
    Even this small community of Orgahs can't come up with a universal labeling list? How can the world hope to get a unity on any of the issues?
    Quote Originally Posted by Suraknar View Post
    The article exists for a reason yes, I did not write it...

  12. #12
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trump Thread

    If I read any more stupid deflections on Facebook about "But the Antifa / alt-left!" I'll become Antifa myself and punch these idiots in the face!

    It can't be a coincidence that these stupid, evil statements deflecting blame from the people who literally worship Hitler come from the side that thinks education should be an expensive, optional choice or just delivered by your inbred parents...


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