Trump Thread

**Montmorency** · 01-31-2018, 04:35

I actually watched a SotU for once, since 2009 (the 2009 inauguration anyway, but give me the mulligan).

Thousands of flags placed on veterans' graves is a wasteful exercise, and a lop-sided symbolism that perpetuates the valorization of soldiers' corpses.

One thing to do it as a publicity stunt or even unexamined institutional practice - but propagandizing the Jugendliche for doing it?

That's what bothered me most. Never mind the sinister swipes at the 'impure' federal bureaucracy and request for authority to cleanse it, "beautiful clean coal", $1.5 trillion for infrastructure a step after funneling at least that much into their own and donors' pockets, the immigrant/gang violence mastication, the implication that Israel is the only friend America has in the world, and the standard Republican and bipartisan platitudes - this one callout just reflects so poorly on our government and society.

And yes, the man just had to give the longest address in post-war American history. .

**CrossLOPER** · 01-31-2018, 06:48

Originally Posted by Montmorency

That's what bothered me most. Never mind the sinister swipes at the 'impure' federal bureaucracy and request for authority to cleanse it, "beautiful clean coal", $1.5 trillion for infrastructure a step after funneling at least that much into their own and donors' pockets, the immigrant/gang violence mastication, the implication that Israel is the only friend America has in the world, and the standard Republican and bipartisan platitudes - this one callout just reflects so poorly on our government and society.

This has been around since the late 80's. Republicans have been feeding their base these ideas and they have become the only truths in their eyes. Linking it with religion or some misguided modern idea of nationalism has made it exceptionally difficult to dislodge.

Originally Posted by Fragony

pluning americans into debts, more than all his precedetors combined? That?

Let's spend 5 seconds researching this statement.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:5...figure1(1).png

Oh look, it didn't hold up at all. What a surprise.

**Fragony** · 01-31-2018, 08:38

Pick whatever http://www.google.nl/search?hl=en-NL...40.rV9xYtqDshs

**Gilrandir** · 01-31-2018, 11:16

Originally Posted by Beskar

War between Russia and China would be interesting (but very unwanted). Especially as the Narrative puts Russia and China on loosely partnership basis.

Such a loss for Russia in losing Siberia could see them joining the European Union too.

China won't go into open war with Russia. It is smarter than that. Instead of taking anything by force it has been populating Russian territory with its citizens - in many cities of the Russian Far East Chinese communities are rather numerous. Besides, China gets economic control over swathes of Russian Siberia. So sooner or later China will have everything under its control without the need of an open war.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=82969
http://euromaidanpress.com/2016/06/2...ion/#arvlbdata
https://www.ft.com/content/700a9450-...1-cbdb03d71480

**CrossLOPER** · 02-02-2018, 05:36

Originally Posted by Fragony

Pick whatever http://www.google.nl/search?hl=en-NL...40.rV9xYtqDshs

No, YOU pick whatever and defend your statement instead of having me do your work for you.

Originally Posted by HopAlongBunny

The FBI and the democratic members of the committee have stated the memo omits information and is flawed.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42902537

They produced what is basically a forgery.

**Strike For The South** · 01-31-2018, 15:43

Originally Posted by Montmorency

Thousands of flags placed on veterans' graves is a wasteful exercise, and a lop-sided symbolism that perpetuates the valorization of soldiers' corpses. One thing to do it as a publicity stunt or even unexamined institutional practice - but propagandizing the Jugendliche for doing it?

He has to rally the base somehow, the military is an easy dunk for him. Military veneration runs deep and it something Trump can hide behind.

That's what bothered me most. Never mind the sinister swipes at the 'impure' federal bureaucracy and request for authority to cleanse it, "beautiful clean coal", $1.5 trillion for infrastructure a step after funneling at least that much into their own and donors' pockets, the immigrant/gang violence mastication, the implication that Israel is the only friend America has in the world, and the standard Republican and bipartisan platitudes - this one callout just reflects so poorly on our government and society.

Anybody who has been paying attention understands how grating it was. However, it is eminently frustrating he stayed on message. Any supporter who watched him last night was probably buoyed by the speech. The bar is so low for him that simply sounding reasonable (to say nothing of the haphazard policies themselves) illicits a "see the left is going crazy".

**Montmorency** · 01-31-2018, 18:47

Originally Posted by Strike For The South

He has to rally the base somehow, the military is an easy dunk for him. Military veneration runs deep and it something Trump can hide behind.

Anybody who has been paying attention understands how grating it was. However, it is eminently frustrating he stayed on message. Any supporter who watched him last night was probably buoyed by the speech. The bar is so low for him that simply sounding reasonable (to say nothing of the haphazard policies themselves) illicits a "see the left is going crazy".

I mean, I won't refer to the audience footage but generally hailing a FlagVeteransPatriot boy is an unhesitatingly bipartisan sentiment. Heck, you have Democratic presidential contenders (Tammy Duckworth) setting their ProudInjuredMilitaryService against DraftdodgingCadetBoneSpurs. The Democrats wish they could be the party of Reagan.

The SotU was noted for its optimistic tone. Well, yes - why would the rulers want to paint a bleak picture of their government? Trump may not care about strategy (give him a few hours now), but I'm sure the kapo does. Paid family leave! But I don't think they know how to do Volksgemeinschaft.

**HopAlongBunny** · 02-01-2018, 03:50

It looks like Trump and friends are going "all in" on disinformation.

"The four-page memo, which was compiled by staffers for the House Intelligence Committee Chairman Devin Nunes, claims that the Department of Justice abused the surveillance programme known as FISA to unfairly target a member of the Trump campaign."

The FBI and the democratic members of the committee have stated the memo omits information and is flawed.
The strategy does get the version out the White House wishes to see; errors in fact make no difference. Even if a subsequent release of information discredits the memo, it will have infected discourse about the FBI and their investigation. "Alternate facts" are alive and well in America.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42894292

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/...80233?lo=ap_b1

**Kralizec** · 02-01-2018, 20:25

Originally Posted by HopAlongBunny

It looks like Trump and friends are going "all in" on disinformation.

"The four-page memo, which was compiled by staffers for the House Intelligence Committee Chairman Devin Nunes, claims that the Department of Justice abused the surveillance programme known as FISA to unfairly target a member of the Trump campaign."

The FBI and the democratic members of the committee have stated the memo omits information and is flawed.
The strategy does get the version out the White House wishes to see; errors in fact make no difference. Even if a subsequent release of information discredits the memo, it will have infected discourse about the FBI and their investigation. "Alternate facts" are alive and well in America.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42894292

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/...80233?lo=ap_b1

There is no public interest in releasing it, other than a thinly veiled desire to lower public trust in the FBI. Worse still, any information they could use to discredit the memo could very well be classified.

**HopAlongBunny** · 02-01-2018, 23:50

Originally Posted by Kralizec

There is no public interest in releasing it, other than a thinly veiled desire to lower public trust in the FBI. Worse still, any information they could use to discredit the memo could very well be classified.

Which raises a couple of important issues.
The Democrats, looking to clarify the matters raised, have an incentive to leak the classified info that makes their case.
Politicization of intelligence info, runs the risk of competing "disclosures" undermining the formal intelligence process.
As Kralizec notes, the reasons behind the Republican desire to declassify and reveal the information are not compelling national security matters. The wish to undermine the FBI and the special prosecutor might be.