Trump Thread

[rory_20_uk]

*have to work, let's not forget that actual slavery still exists.

As for being forced to work, depends on your definition. The whole point is to force them to work on getting a job. However, if there simply is no job for them to get, it's a bit much to blame them. And if they just get food and shelter, the things they can actually do become quite limited since even going somewhere beyond what can be reached on foot or bike can become expensive. Taking a minimum wage job in the next city can be impossible unless the government subsidizes the commute.

Mea culpa - yes, slavery still exists. It always has and it probably always will. And the slavery-lite options called crofting / serfs / bondsman.

I'm not blaming anyone. I accept that amongst both employed and unemployed there are angels (who are genuinely trying whilst life has dealt them a really bad hand / are doing a decent job and declaring all their money) and daemons (who are taking everything they can, whilst also working but not declaring).

Although the view that it is "impossible" to get to the next town / city has changed with time. It used to be something you just had to do as the alternative was probably to starve / become a full time criminal; and of course joining the armed forces was another escape but standards have been increased to such a degree many are excluded when so many places would benefit from some cannon fodder. Having some sort of bus pass as part of the unemployed benefit would be a good idea.

[Strike For The South]

Replacing SNAP with boxes of food (which would presumably be filled with simple grains and sugars) is an affront to these dignity.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

Wealthy progressives pay big buxxx to not have a choice in the food they get from Blue Apron-style deliveries and/or their local farm CSA program. Setting aside for a moment that government cheese won't be at that level of quality, is there anything about a CSA subscription that lacks dignity if it was part of a government welfare program?

We're talking about people who's kids already get breakfast and lunch at school. Is the lack of a deep and refined menu for those government meals an affront as well?

[Strike For The South]

Wealthy progressives pay big buxxx to not have a choice in the food they get from Blue Apron-style deliveries and/or their local farm CSA program. Setting aside for a moment that government cheese won't be at that level of quality, is there anything about a CSA subscription that lacks dignity if it was part of a government welfare program?

We're talking about people who's kids already get breakfast and lunch at school. Is the lack of a deep and refined menu for those government meals an affront as well?

First of all, Hello.

School lunches are absolute trash. We fail feeding kids nearly as bad as we do preventing them from getting shot.

Let's set aside the dignity comment. I'll wheel back around to it.

This is a supply chain nightmare. The USDA has made assumptions that it would be cheaper for the states to pick and ship these goods rather than have people make their own food choices. Warehouses are expensive, labor is expensive, Trucks are expensive, Drivers are expensive. So instead of using the existing corporate supply chains, the USDA thinks it will be cheaper to make and maintain these things out of whole cloth. Good luck to them. They mentioned blue apron in their press release, blue apron is having massive supply chain problems right now. It won't work but that's about par for the course for this presidents business ventures.

Every reputable study on SNAP spending habits has shown it to be roughly in line with American spending on food as a whole. It absolute right wing propaganda the propagates the myth of steak and lobster being charged to the EBT card. 65 percent of SNAP beneficiaries are under 18, over 60, or disabled. That is hardly the picture of the able bodied on the dole.

These boxes will be filled with simple carbs, simple sugars, and chock full of grains. This is food that makes people sick. It is not designed to be healthy. It is designed as form of control. It is designed to shame those who partake in the welfare system. It is not feasible to kick out the illegal immigrants, starve the poor, or kill the sick. However, you can shame and shackle them until their voices are crushed and that is the goal of the actors bankrolling both sides of the aisle.

Even from a purely self interested stand point, it should be noted, Ideas don't start revolutions, hungry people do.

[a completely inoffensive name]

First of all, Hello.

School lunches are absolute trash. We fail feeding kids nearly as bad as we do preventing them from getting shot.

Let's set aside the dignity comment. I'll wheel back around to it.

This is a supply chain nightmare. The USDA has made assumptions that it would be cheaper for the states to pick and ship these goods rather than have people make their own food choices. Warehouses are expensive, labor is expensive, Trucks are expensive, Drivers are expensive. So instead of using the existing corporate supply chains, the USDA thinks it will be cheaper to make and maintain these things out of whole cloth. Good luck to them. They mentioned blue apron in their press release, blue apron is having massive supply chain problems right now. It won't work but that's about par for the course for this presidents business ventures.

Every reputable study on SNAP spending habits has shown it to be roughly in line with American spending on food as a whole. It absolute right wing propaganda the propagates the myth of steak and lobster being charged to the EBT card. 65 percent of SNAP beneficiaries are under 18, over 60, or disabled. That is hardly the picture of the able bodied on the dole.

These boxes will be filled with simple carbs, simple sugars, and chock full of grains. This is food that makes people sick. It is not designed to be healthy. It is designed as form of control. It is designed to shame those who partake in the welfare system. It is not feasible to kick out the illegal immigrants, starve the poor, or kill the sick. However, you can shame and shackle them until their voices are crushed and that is the goal of the actors bankrolling both sides of the aisle.

Even from a purely self interested stand point, it should be noted, Ideas don't start revolutions, hungry people do.

All I have to say is Blue Apron = Scam Apron. I'm looking at the Beef Medallion meal. Four beef medallions likely each the size of a pack of cards, two potatoes, broccoli, a lemon, an onion and minor amounts of garlic and green onion... all for $20.
If you are middle class and don't live in a food desert...take the 25 min trip to Ralphs and buy it yourself.

[HopAlongBunny]

Mueller Indictment (full text via bbc):

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-43091945

[Sarmatian]

As always, Americans are so lonely on top of their hill that they don't understand this is something that happens all the time.

[Montmorency]

The idea is not bad in itself. FDIPR is a federal program that does just the same thing for Native Americans on reservations, and at a glance here and in other studies it seems to work... decently, at least.

However, this program is complementary to SNAP, rather than a replacement for it. It exists because on some isolated reservations (or reservations in general, because frankly the rez be dirt-poor) families in need of food assistance may not have ready access to quality food in the market.

As an official suggestion, gutting SNAP and replacing it with curated commodities because the poors can't be trusted to shop for themselves is an obvious asshole move. It's a restriction and a diminution. Public school breakfast and lunch, meanwhile, is subsidized because children may have nothing else available. Children, as far as I know, are not ever mandated to forswear their parents' baloney sandwich and obtain school lunch.

It absolute right wing propaganda the propagates the myth of steak and lobster being charged to the EBT card.

Then again, why shouldn't SNAP recipients get to eat steak and lobster? In line with what you're saying, the underlying assumption either way is that poor people should only partake of the shittiest food and be grateful for it. It's the same sentiment underlying the snide comments when a food bank distributes donations of premium items: isn't it more efficient to give food bank customers the absolute cheapest canned food?

Even from a purely self interested stand point, it should be noted, Ideas don't start revolutions, hungry people do.

"One day the poor will have nothing to eat but the rich" is a satisfying thought, but the poor as a group will not be allowed to want for calories until the time to die is at hand.

[Strike For The South]

The idea is not bad in itself. FDIPR is a federal program that does just the same thing for Native Americans on reservations, and at a glance here and in other studies it seems to work... decently, at least.

The reservation boxes are literal jokes to those who receive them. If by works decently you mean "gets there" sure.

However, this program is complementary to SNAP, rather than a replacement for it. It exists because on some isolated reservations (or reservations in general, because frankly the rez be dirt-poor) families in need of food assistance may not have ready access to quality food in the market.

They get powdered milk, white bread, and processed cheese, hardly quality.

Then again, why shouldn't SNAP recipients get to eat steak and lobster? In line with what you're saying, the underlying assumption either way is that poor people should only partake of the shittiest food and be grateful for it. It's the same sentiment underlying the snide comments when a food bank distributes donations of premium items: isn't it more efficient to give food bank customers the absolute cheapest canned food?

It is simply to deflect the most common brought up argument against SNAP. As a whole people do not suddenly try to game the system.

"One day the poor will have nothing to eat but the rich" is a satisfying thought, but the poor as a group will not be allowed to want for calories until the time to die is at hand.

Everything is impossible until it happens.

[Montmorency]

The reservation boxes are literal jokes to those who receive them. If by works decently you mean "gets there" sure.

They get powdered milk, white bread, and processed cheese, hardly quality.

. Although FDPIR is intended to be a supplemental food package program, it
was the sole or primary source of food for 38 percent of households

Participant satisfaction with FDPIR was overwhelmingly positive. Of the 15 household survey questions
that asked respondents to rank satisfaction on food packages, facilities, and the operation of the program,
respondent satisfaction rates on 12 items were over 90 percent. Strikingly, 99 percent of survey
respondents indicated that they would recommend FDPIR to family and friends

The process for ordering produce was different from that for ordering other USDA Foods. Nearly all
sites ordered produce to be delivered once per week to ensure the availability of fresh produce to
participants throughout the month.

Participants commonly suggested adding back to the food package products that had been removed,
including lunchmeat or spam, tuna, and syrup. Other products that participants would like to see, in no
particular order, included spices, garlic, frozen vegetables, baking soda or baking powder or yeast, fresh eggs
(currently being piloted), sugar, frozen fish, whole milk, bread, alternative grains and flours (barley, quinoa),
and coffee and tea.
Other participants requested a greater variety of frozen meats, canned beans, and canned soups. In the
discussion groups, households in one program indicated that they would like more meat and to be able to
receive both oil and butter. Staff noted that the amount of butter offered has decreased since its
reintroduction into the food package, and recipients would like more of it. For a detailed discussion of
participants’ food preferences, see chapter 8.

Some participants in discussion groups raised issues about the availability of all food items. For example,
they mentioned food being out of stock when they arrived or not available that month. Unavailability of
products and inconsistency of inventory were mentioned as key reasons why people might leave the
program

By "decent", I mean useful. Maybe it's more reflective of the quality of reservation life than the quality of the food or the process, but still. My point is just that a distinct and well-funded program of curated packages isn't an inherently bad idea as long as it isn't presented as a replacement for anything. If really ambitious, assemble and distribute to all comers (i.e. without special enrolment) on a local basis.

[HopAlongBunny]

More fake news.
Mueller and the grand jury have indicted 13 Russians and 3 Russian entities for the interference that didn't happen.
Charges include attempting to defraud the U.S., wire fraud, bank fraud and identity theft.
For something that never occurred this is certainly leaving quite a trail:

https://www.npr.org/2018/02/16/58650...lectionhttp://

While the administration might wish to sow doubt about the election interference, there is no doubt that Russia is actively engaging in an information war at present:

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-...discord-online

Denial while under attack is not a winning strategy.