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    Default Re: Trump Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name View Post
    There were plenty of Founding Fathers who leaned toward the "enlightened monarchy" camp and they left their mark in the extent of the President's powers.
    You can argue for a self-pardon power if you interpret text in isolation from the rest of the document and don't take history or legal meta-principles into account, which account nevertheless judges of all ideological stripes tend to take in analysis of issues of all sorts, so neglecting them in this type of case would be prima facie goal-oriented reasoning demanding a very good explanation. It doesn't say anywhere in the Constitution, for example, that preemptive pardons prior to the commission of a crime are forbidden, so under the positivistic approach Trump may permanently shield himself and his family/allies from federal criminal liability in a single proclamation. Such a result would allow Trump as a private citizen to defy the federal government or even personally execute the entire sitting Congress without fear of prosecution at any point in his life.

    Ultimately there is that fig leaf permitting a far-right court (which we don't quite have yet) to endorse the irresponsible reading, but it would seriously damage the authority of the Court and may eventually grease comprehensive reform... For now let's keep in mind the "pragmatic" constraints on Trump that keep this line of thinking a rhetorical device, that self-pardon (as opposed to pardon by POTUS Pence, Acting President VP Pence, or some future POTUS), whether it's tested or not, guarantees eventual state-level prosecution and conviction barring irrevocable seizure of power. Moreover, there's a very strong case that a corrupt self-pardon (there is no other kind) would in itself be a criminal offense in violation of Obstruction of Justice statutes.

    But I don't think there's reason to believe either that a faction of the Framers consciously intended this opening, or that they leaned toward "enlightened monarchy" as opposed to an executive capable of effectively balancing Congress. I understand that self-pardon was never explicitly discussed in documented form during the Constitutional Conventions, whereas proper checks on executive overreach were extensively discussed, so it's up to you to dig up any Framers who took the position that reproducing the privilege of a Charles I or Louis XIV was desirable in a time when even that of a George III was rejected. To reiterate, there is a difference between "energetic executive" and "royal prerogative", especially in the context of the null-executive Articles of Confederation.
    Last edited by Montmorency; 06-05-2018 at 13:47.
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