Trump Thread

[Pannonian]

I feel the need to point out that I'm probably the one in the Backroom most familiar with the development of Tyrannies. The first point to remember is that the first Tyrant of the three is usually deemed necessary, the second autocratic and the third despotic.

Essential to the theory is the proposition that the Tyrant arises out of a failed democratic system, rather than fulling the system down.

I have to say, I went through New Labour's education system, that was pretty terrible.

Your description of successions of tyrannies is a truism. What's more instructive is how tyrannies come to be, and how they develop. A strong man rises to power in response to a perceived need. They usually have popular support. They then cement their power with a monopoly of the organs of power; in ancient times, this means a professional military, preferably mercenary. They then reinforce this with a campaign against a chosen "other".

Modern day nations have professional militaries separate from the ruler in power. However, there are other organs of power, ranging from the executive (the most important in this context) to the lawmakers and the courts and the media. In modern extremist politics, the executive and the media are what is important, as one does the work while the other suppresses dissent. The campaign is for some kind of identity, with any dissenters dubbed traitors.

Trump followers, Brexit followers, Corbyn followers all follow this blueprint.

Corbyn's anti-semitism stems from his Marcist readings, which themselves were reflective of Marx's times. That he's enabled it in the Labour party is because he's used to the workings of the fringes, and institutionalised everything is how they work. He is unpleasant, but his anti-semitism is not an existential threat to the UK. The abuse of democracy by Corbyn on the one hand, but far more so by Bannon's Trump and Brexit brigades on the other, is an existential threat to the UK. I described what I deem to be moderate politics from the voter's perspective. Do you agree with it? Or are you going to handwave it with "I have to say, I went through New Labour's education system, that was pretty terrible." NB. I didn't describe any political position. I described the necessary environment for reasonable politics to exist.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

I'm not comfortable with Boris being PM at this point, a couple of years ago I would have shrugged and moved on - now I'm not really very happy.

Having said that, I'm not especially worried about Boris himself so much as the likes of Jacob Reese-Mogg.

The "Brexit Brigade" is not in charge of the education system, the Conservative Government is. I suffered through the National Curriculum in the early 2000's, it taught me I was bad at languages. The idea of Academies is quite clearly a means of establishing a sort of pseudo-Grammar system instead of an actual Grammar System.

Something needs to be done with our education system, it has been deteriorating for decades.

[Pannonian]

I'm not comfortable with Boris being PM at this point, a couple of years ago I would have shrugged and moved on - now I'm not really very happy.

Having said that, I'm not especially worried about Boris himself so much as the likes of Jacob Reese-Mogg.

The "Brexit Brigade" is not in charge of the education system, the Conservative Government is. I suffered through the National Curriculum in the early 2000's, it taught me I was bad at languages. The idea of Academies is quite clearly a means of establishing a sort of pseudo-Grammar system instead of an actual Grammar System.

Something needs to be done with our education system, it has been deteriorating for decades.

IA's education goes back way before New Labour and Cameron's Tories, and his recent posts are an illustration of the deterioration of democratic debate. "You lost, get over it." "The MPs (also traitors) will get what's coming to them." "Nigel Farage represents everything that I support, except when you show him to be a hypocrite, when I'll excuse myself by saying that I don't need to support everything he says." Politicians are allowed to lie as much as they like and their supporters will excuse them everything, as what matters is that their side won and the opposition lost. Where is the accountability?

I believe that governments do not succeed by winning elections. Once they win an election, they are given a go at government, but they're expected to be held accountable for their promises, and they have to continue to present the argument for how what they are doing is good for the country. "Because we won" is not a good enough argument. Am I being unreasonable?

[Tuuvi]

Corbyn's anti-semitism stems from his Marcist readings, which themselves were reflective of Marx's times.

Wasn't Karl Marx Jewish? I find the idea that Marxism made Corbyn antisemitic laughable.

[Gilrandir]

Is there any thread brexiters and antibrexiters can't turn to discussing their problem?

[Pannonian]

Is there any thread brexiters and antibrexiters can't turn to discussing their problem?

Look up Steve Bannon.

[Beskar]

"Send her back" - Insight to 21st century Fascism.

[Beskar]

[Montmorency]

Racism =/= Fascism.

Sure, but in this case the criteria are met.


Tangential to the above, but a thought to tweak the "culturalists" racists out there: Aren't Latin Americans, and especially Mexicans, more culturally compatible in the United States than "white" Europeans are?

I've said it before, including with respect to Muslim-restrictionism, but it really needs to be hammered home that it's the reactionaries who are incompatible with most American cultures and they're the ones who need to buzz off. (Maybe Rod Dreher could still be taken up on shipping the jacobites to the rez? )

Also, a crack about Trump I'm stealing: Dr. Frankenstein is operating a secret program to genetically engineer the most perfect refutation of the concept of meritocracy. Journal entry dated 11/8/16: "I've worked on this project my whole career...and...HE...he just tweeted his way up.'

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

"Send her back" - Insight to 21st century Fascism.

Racism =/= Fascism.

Teach children to confuse the two and they won't recognise real Fascism when it comes knocking.

We need to start asking, seriously, why the Western World is collapsing - the social, cultural, political, economic, military... It's all falling apart.

[Pannonian]

Racism =/= Fascism.

Teach children to confuse the two and they won't recognise real Fascism when it comes knocking.

We need to start asking, seriously, why the Western World is collapsing - the social, cultural, political, economic, military... It's all falling apart.

Backing Bannon's projects certainly doesn't help. If not fully functional, the US was not yet collapsing pre-Trump, nor the UK pre-Brexit. You yourself cited, as an argument for Brexit, taking away the scapegoat for the rulers so that they would be forced to confront their own mistakes. May I present to you the possibility that revolution for the sake of revolution, without anything else in its place, as you've suggested, is the reason for this accelerated collapse. May I present to you the corollary argument that stability is good, and that it is possible to address imperfections in the politic without resorting to revolution.

The US is having it a tad better than the UK in the Great Bannon Experiment though. The US is a more coherent state than the UK, is big enough to absorb changes, and is likely to retain the U in US, unlike the eastern Atlantic edition of the Experiment, where its followers seem content to jettison the U in UK. Still, look on the bright side. Revolution is the thing, eh.

[Beskar]

Racism =/= Fascism.

Teach children to confuse the two and they won't recognise real Fascism when it comes knocking.

So chanting, calling for exile of democratically elected senators who are in the opposing party simply because they are critical of your policies and direction is not fascism?


As Montmorency said, in this circumstance, the criteria was met.

[Vuk]

"Send her back" - Insight to 21st century Fascism.

You realize that 2 of the 4 members of the squad at least have told people to go back to their countries and even threatened to deport immigrants who disagreed with them, don't you?
I'm not supporting the chant, as I think it is stupid, but if it is fascism, then the squad brought us there first.

#justsayin

[a completely inoffensive name]

You realize that 2 of the 4 members of the squad at least have told people to go back to their countries and even threatened to deport immigrants who disagreed with them, don't you?
I'm not supporting the chant, as I think it is stupid, but if it is fascism, then the squad brought us there first.

#justsayin

Vuk! Glad to see you on here, even though I still probably absolutely hate your politics.

Can you provide the links to their twitter where they said such things?

[Pannonian]

Wasn't Karl Marx Jewish? I find the idea that Marxism made Corbyn antisemitic laughable.

You mean that Marx was divorced from the trope of Jews as part of a cabal of bankers controlling the world? Marx wasn't especially anti-semitic, but he was somewhat, like just about everyone back in those days, in today's terms. More relevantly, Corbyn is unimaginative enough that he believes in the validity of the past to overrule the present, eg. he recently overruled the decision of the Labour conference because he'd read a biography of Wilson. Corbyn takes in these 19th century tropes unquestioningly, while others in his inner circle are known to believe the more developed forms of these tropes. Hooked nosed bankers controlling the world's economy? It's one of the far left's canonic myths, and that image is known to Corbyn and approved of.