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Thread: Trump Thread

  1. #2881

    Default Re: Trump Thread

    That's exactly why I credit this as almost something Orwellian. It's not in the MAGA world force propaganda like 1984's Big Brother but due to his appeal as a 'says it like it is' honest broker following despite being a lying grifter. Its self radicalization like with muslim extremists that isolates people on their own so they trust no one by 'their' people to such an extreme degree that only direct and very personal betrayal by Trump might change that.
    Nineteen Eighty-Four's protagonist Winston Smith, who works in the Ministry of Truth, is routinely assigned the task of revising old newspaper articles in order to serve the propaganda interests of the government. In one instance, the weekly chocolate ration was decreased from 30 grams to 20. The next day the newspaper announced that the chocolate ration had not been reduced to 20 grams per week, but increased to 20 grams. Any previous mention of the ration having been 30 grams per week needed to be destroyed.

    You may recall that I documented over the first Trump term something like 4 instances in which Trump tweeted celebrating the Dow Jones index reaching 25000. Because it kept dropping below it and then rebounding, over months.

    So yes, the picture of MAGA praising Trump for each time he either issues tariffs or retracts them is a fundamentally Orwellian one; yes, there are millions of Americans who would probably execute their firstborn if the Trump, thy God commanded it, but the MAGA cult as a group is 'only' like 1/3 of the population. The rest of the Trump supporters suffer from a mixture of negative qualities, including sheer ignorance of American politics and what politicians say and do, selfish contempt of anything "liberal", etc. Those people aren't true believers, they're more passive, and under potential circumstances could turn on Trump just like most of them turned on GWB (who lest we forget had a little bit of a cultish worship movement about him in his first term, after 9/11).

    Though I shudder to think what sort of catastrophies it would take to bring Trump down to 35% approval... I think he could order the nuclear bombardment of "blue cities" and never drop below 30%, still counting the casualties.

    Well, that's part of his weird power as a lying grifter. He's completely inconsistent in his promises on a day by day basis and can say whatever to please whatever demographic. Those that like it will say 'listen to what he says, wow he's our guy' and those that don't like what he says are met with 'he's just trying to trigger the libs, it's a joke, that's not what he meant.'
    Many condemn Trump as a lifelong business failure, but he has always in fact been really successful in all forms of white-collar crime, which besides his reality TV show and related branding were his primary source of net worth before politics. Trump is a grifter to make P.T. Barnum blush, a very effective one. Many, if not most, are immune to his ways, such that we may recall the famous quote attributed to Abe Lincoln about not fooling all of the people all of the time, but those who are susceptible just keep falling for it no matter how many times Trump bamboozles them - in politics and in business. For Trump to have been blacklisted from almost every major bank still involved him successfully defrauding almost every major bank!! If we had the kind of system to put guys like this in prison when they're just starting out, we'd be much healthier as a society. But I've noticed something interesting about Left and Right:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    This is a bit of a preliminary read that deserves much more development, but I recently had the realization that conservatives tend to profoundly prioritize negative attention toward violent crime, larceny, and direct offenses between individuals than white-collar crime in general, even though you can often hear conservatives giving lip service against corruption and fraud. On the other hand, people more inclined toward progressive or egalitarian sentiments usually react much more negatively toward white-collar, financialized crime, including crimes that affect lots of people in indirect ways, than they do toward violent crime or larceny. In other words, the archetypical right-winger thinks about someone breaking into their house and raping their family and reaches for their gun, while the archetypical left-winger thinks about their boss's boss skimming their wages and screwing up their neighborhood and reaches for their placard. Of coirse, I would be remiss not to note that left-wing fears are a lot more common to come to life...

    My hypothesis is that this gets at something fundamental in political psychology, though I struggle to think how to best research the question. If correct, it would go some way to helping explain how corruption remains so persistent even in developed societies, and why elite impunity is so persistent everywhere.




    I'm sure the MAGA inside traders are making piles off this self created chaos
    Donald Trump’s crypto project netted $350mn from presidential memecoin

    Trump's meme coin made nearly $100 million in trading fees, as small traders lost money


    God forbid Musk and Trump manage to funnel billions of taxpayer dollars into pumping and dumping their own and their friends' crypto holdings, as they've suggested they'd like to do.


    would be nice to at least have a silver lining of solving my money problems too.
    Notably, this is how a lot of "competitive" authoritarian regimes like Orban's or even Putin's get up and running. It's not just about sticks - threatening, exiling, jailing, or killing the opposition into submission - but the carrots as well. From ordinary people up to civil societal actors and bit politicians and bureaucrats, the message is 'cooperate, and we'll elevate you into the club.' Regime members and associates get loads of job opportunities, graft opportunities, kickbacks, and other favors and privileges. In better times the West acts as a key partner in this respect, in among other ways by acting as an outlet for the opposition to emigrate to (but still send remittances from). Kind of how all those socialists and anarchists came to America from France, Italy, Germany, Austria-Hungary, and Russia back in the day. So in other words, contemporary authoritarians win without mass killing by dividing and conquering the vast majority of the population into: self-exiles; passives; collaborators; core supporters.

    I think the way the public is beginning to react in the US may demonstrate that our society is indeed too complex and diverse to overwhelm like that, to say nothing of the fact that Musk and Trump are chaotic and narcissistic rather than rational, focused planners like the other Bad Hombres. We'll see if trying so hard to make as many enemies as they can at once pays off for them down the line. (Such as, to stay on topic, the Cubanos getting triggered by Musk declaring Radio Martí a form of waste, fraud, and abuse, and trying to shut it down.) For instance, the leaks from/about the Trump cabinet officials such as Rubio have got underway, alleging friction between the political appointees and Elon Musk trying to do his own thing.

    But now we're in a global psychosocial war of some nature, so no relationship is stable with respect to anything else.
    Last edited by Montmorency; 03-09-2025 at 07:08.
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  2. #2882
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    Default Re: Trump Thread

    Nice discussion. And I do like Foucault's take on things -- always makes me thoughtful.

    Trump is every bit of the communicator FDR was; seeks changes in politics and government that are just as sweeping as FDR; sees himself as the only real leader who can face this moment in history and embodies "apres moi le deluge" every bit as much.

    Trump's rhetoric is every bit as effective as FDR and his fireside chats. He appeals to commonality and Americana mythos & nomos appeals with his core support group like few ever have. The believe he shares their most important experience of America is going to Hell and we need to take it back -- never stop swinging back at your opponents (never give up, never surrender) until they are destroyed (and that there are no real rules in a knife fight except to win). His connection with his core 20% of the electorate is profound. That it contravenes all of Aristotle's precepts about proper rhetoric doesn't mean it isn't working. Logos is ignored, Ethos redefined to tribalism, and pathos reigns triumphant. That is, by the way, the exact demagogic approach to successful rhetoric decried by Socrates, Aristotle, Hobbes, and Kant as being without ethics. But what did they know.

    Trump's program of change is every bit as sweeping in scope as the New Deal (though much of Trump's version is literally an antithesis thereto). Executive orders to effect immediate change, hacking a government size, reshaping America's foreign and trade policies to a transactional model more akin to the pre-ww1 great powers system. Trump's core support group has imbibed the close HHS, close Education, put energy back in the DoD, Cut taxes, cut government and put things back to the States, One language, Strict Borders, One dominant culture for 3 decades on the radio. Trump is trying to bring it all to fruition yesterday, and his core loves him even more for "finally doing the right thing."

    Trump, as near as I can tell, truly believes that he and only he has the ability to change things for the better. While he has brought the GOP into power in all branches at this moment in history, he is gutting the development of other leaders in the party every bit as thoroughly as FDR did. Truman barely hung on in 1948 after nuking Japan (popular with many as fewer Americans died) and finishing up the win for ww2. The Dems weren't able to field a successful bid for the presidency until 1960 and even then it was a narrow win against the ever-so-charming and trustworthy RMN. Following Truman, you do not see an 8 year Democratic presidency until Clinton...a generation later. Trump's GOP is similarly gutting future leadership so that the hero can shine. To be fair, this bothers me less now that I am no longer a GOP'er. It used to be the party home for fiscal/defense conservatives. Now only the single issue social conservatives really remain.

    I am a political conservative. I like the idea of smaller governance and power reverted to the states on many issues. I am not a fan of entitlement plans or government run healthcare. I am not a neo-isolationist. I am an American exceptionalist...and I still cannot support this administration's agenda or the people in charge. Silly me, I think that ethics still matter.
    "The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman

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  3. #2883

    Default Re: Trump Thread

    Trump's rhetoric is every bit as effective as FDR and his fireside chats. He appeals to commonality and Americana mythos & nomos appeals with his core support group like few ever have. The believe he shares their most important experience of America is going to Hell and we need to take it back -- never stop swinging back at your opponents (never give up, never surrender) until they are destroyed (and that there are no real rules in a knife fight except to win). His connection with his core 20% of the electorate is profound. That it contravenes all of Aristotle's precepts about proper rhetoric doesn't mean it isn't working. Logos is ignored, Ethos redefined to tribalism, and pathos reigns triumphant. That is, by the way, the exact demagogic approach to successful rhetoric decried by Socrates, Aristotle, Hobbes, and Kant as being without ethics. But what did they know.
    I don't think I was the first to compare Trump to Peisistratos (thrice reigned, twice deposed) during the Biden years.

    But FDR didn't have nearly the power over his party and base that Trump does, although there may have been a similar scale of adoration. He consistently restrained himself to Congress, who implemented or allowed the implementation of most of the New Deal of their own authority. In contrast, all Trump demands from his Congress is quiescence and a unified front before the media (which Republicans have always been pretty good at) as he and Musk establish a despotic biumvirate. What we can compare the two in is in their limits in trying to usurp or retire dissatisfactory politicians: both have always failed at that, because it's really hard for a single politician to command a local electorate vote one way or another against a live person in that jurisdiction. Especially incumbent. That is technically some sort of balance of powers I suppose.

    Anyway, the national Democrats are continuing in their historical trend of accommodationism, actually more intensely than I would recall of the Reagan years or other such eras. One can't identify what Democrats in Congress stand for right now, other than competing for the Ludwig Kaas and Franz von Papen Prize for Merit in Liberal Politics.
    Last edited by Montmorency; 03-14-2025 at 06:40.
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  4. #2884
    Coffee farmer extraordinaire Member spmetla's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trump Thread

    Trump, as near as I can tell, truly believes that he and only he has the ability to change things for the better. While he has brought the GOP into power in all branches at this moment in history, he is gutting the development of other leaders in the party every bit as thoroughly as FDR did. Truman barely hung on in 1948 after nuking Japan (popular with many as fewer Americans died) and finishing up the win for ww2. The Dems weren't able to field a successful bid for the presidency until 1960 and even then it was a narrow win against the ever-so-charming and trustworthy RMN. Following Truman, you do not see an 8 year Democratic presidency until Clinton...a generation later. Trump's GOP is similarly gutting future leadership so that the hero can shine. To be fair, this bothers me less now that I am no longer a GOP'er. It used to be the party home for fiscal/defense conservatives. Now only the single issue social conservatives really remain.
    The GOP's lack of direction or leadership probably won't hurt it as much as the democrats back in the day. With the tribalism of today's politics there are too many that would never ever vote anything other than Republican and would at the most just not show up to vote instead of vote for the opposition.
    It's certainly clear that he has zero intention of ever leaving office too though so what happens beyond him is beyond his caring.

    Anyway, the national Democrats are continuing in their historical trend of accommodationist, actually more intensely than I would recall of the Reagan years or other such eras. One can't identify what Democrats in Congress stand for right now, other than competing for the Ludwig Kaas and Franz von Papen Prize for Merit in Liberal Politics.
    I think right now the Democrats are involved in similar internal debates like we've had on here. Should they double down on progressive-liberal politics or appear more centrist to try and win over splitters from the Rs in the wake of Trump's chaotic governance?
    Think that's why Schumer is not looking for a shutdown, he wants to not be seen as simply an obstructionist, and I think more importantly they don't want the economic damage of a government shutdown to allow the Republicans to blame the Democrats for any fallout to divert from the created chaos from tariffs and poor diplomacy.
    Seeing as no political reckoning can really happen until the midterms next year I imagine that the Democratic 'game' is let Trump do his thing (while still challenging in courts) and let that dissuade voters as their own rhetoric didn't reach the voters as needed.
    Sadly though, this will likely just allow Trump to cement his power better.

    "Am I not destroying my enemies when I make friends of them?"
    -Abraham Lincoln


    Four stage strategy from Yes, Minister:
    Stage one we say nothing is going to happen.
    Stage two, we say something may be about to happen, but we should do nothing about it.
    Stage three, we say that maybe we should do something about it, but there's nothing we can do.
    Stage four, we say maybe there was something we could have done, but it's too late now.

  5. #2885

    Default Re: Trump Thread

    I think right now the Democrats are involved in similar internal debates like we've had on here. Should they double down on progressive-liberal politics or appear more centrist to try and win over splitters from the Rs in the wake of Trump's chaotic governance?
    I mean, disavowing everything negative you've ever said about Trump and formally licensing his unlimited lawbreaking and looting doesn't sound centrist, it sounds like the Democrats (in the eyes of their critics) admitting to being corrupt hypocrites anyway. Has everything the US government has been based on in living memory just been a criminal and illegitimate con, like Musk and Trump say? If not, Dem hypocrisy in not standing up is a disgrace. If Trump and Musk are right, then they should get all the credit for 'saving' the country from Dems, not the Dems suddenly deciding to bend the knee to the ones doing God's work.

    Practically, a few things are happening:

    1. Most Democrats (base and electeds) seem to be angry about Schumer's decision, which was in support of a conservative flank of just a few senators. Even Pelosi came out against him, and they worked in lockstep for decades as party leaders. We'll see if he faces a strong primary challenge.
    2. Trump's approval has been sinking slowly since January, but consistently. This was a missed opportunity to reinforce that.
    3. As a historical matter, Republicans always get blamed for government shutdowns. To be fair, they've always been the ones who caused government shutdowns, but as one liberal blogger puts it, average voters think of Republicans as anti-government (certainly the American bureaucratic state has had no greater enemies in 200 years than Musk/Trump), and of Democrats as the party of government. Given what's been going on, amid unified Republican government, who but the most committed MAGA is going to buy that it's actually Democrats who are anti-government right now in the event of a shutdown.
    4. Government shutdowns have a habit of reminding people of the value of stable and effective government, at least for a few minutes.

    Seeing as no political reckoning can really happen until the midterms next year I imagine that the Democratic 'game' is let Trump do his thing (while still challenging in courts) and let that dissuade voters as their own rhetoric didn't reach the voters as needed.
    Democrats need to eventually unify around a replacement ideology and program to legacy 20th century liberalism, because that project and movement is not only exhausted (as we can observe with our own eyes), but with the way the political "resistance" is going there's just not going to be much left of it to salvage or rebuild in the coming years and decades. Democrats winning back a Senate seat and two-four districts or whatever in 2026 is utterly meaningless if Trump continues to rule autocratically and Democrats continue to have no hope of either regaining a unified government to counteract Trumpism, nor even of wielding it fully should they be delivered such an electoral miracle in 2028.

    To phrase it differently, if Republicans even allow Democrats to retake the presidency anytime in the foreseeable future, what are the Democrats prepared to do with that power? Nothing?
    Last edited by Montmorency; 03-15-2025 at 01:40.
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  6. #2886
    Coffee farmer extraordinaire Member spmetla's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trump Thread

    I mean, disavowing everything negative you've ever said about Trump and formally licensing his unlimited lawbreaking and looting doesn't sound centrist, it sounds like the Democrats (in the eyes of their critics) admitting to being corrupt hypocrites anyway. Has everything the US government has been based on in living memory just been a criminal and illegitimate con, like Musk and Trump say? If not, Dem hypocrisy in not standing up is a disgrace. If Trump and Musk are right, then they should get all the credit for 'saving' the country from Dems, not the Dems suddenly deciding to bend the knee to the ones doing God's work.
    Believe me, I'm not sold on a thing Trump is doing and am more surprised and trying to see if there's any strategy in the way the Democratic leaders went ahead of this CR.
    As for the Dem leaders being corrupt hypocrites, I view the majority of our long-term politicians as such. The current MAGA republicans are more than just hypocrites though, they are dangerous hypocrites threatening our constitutional system. Schumer has been a disgrace in the way he handled this and he's clearly out of touch.

    To phrase it differently, if Republicans even allow Democrats to retake the presidency anytime in the foreseeable future, what are the Democrats prepared to do with that power? Nothing?
    I agree, there is no true platform for the Democrats to rally around. Like with the Republicans they've allowed too many years of political dynasties to rule their leadership. Obama was the outlier and applauded for being such and Biden only came in because thankfully the US was at the time sick of Trump (and COVID) but even then, was just a 'centrist' tried and true Washington DC politician still trying to milk his blue collar reputation from nearly a half century before.
    Obama was "change we can believe in" and "yes we can" but there's no such rallying cry anymore.

    Too much of the US wants change, a more efficient and effective yet smaller government, less war, and still maintain national pride and international respect, but can't figure out how to get there which is how we'll get folks that voted for Obama, then wanted Sanders, and now support Trump.
    Last edited by spmetla; 03-15-2025 at 08:59.

    "Am I not destroying my enemies when I make friends of them?"
    -Abraham Lincoln


    Four stage strategy from Yes, Minister:
    Stage one we say nothing is going to happen.
    Stage two, we say something may be about to happen, but we should do nothing about it.
    Stage three, we say that maybe we should do something about it, but there's nothing we can do.
    Stage four, we say maybe there was something we could have done, but it's too late now.

  7. #2887

    Default Re: Trump Thread

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    Vitiate Man.

    History repeats the old conceits
    The glib replies, the same defeats


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  8. #2888

    Default Re: Trump Thread

    Last edited by Shaka_Khan; 03-21-2025 at 06:18.

  9. #2889

    Default Re: Trump Thread

    Nice Godwin blog post on discursive and political pscyhology trends in Nazi Germany and their implicit analogy in present times (themselves an enhanced version of much from the first Trump era):

    Here, then, are things to watch for, all warnings from the well-known story of the Third Reich.

    Daily life will take on a surreal quality and, if we do not take some action or join an organized resistance, our discussions will consist of merely repeating the latest horror.

    Sebastian Haffner, writing in 1939, noted that “life went on as before, though it had now become ghostly and unreal, and was daily mocked by the events that served as its background…. We were not equal to the situation, even as victims.” Then as now, “many adapt to living with clenched teeth. Unfortunately they form a majority of a visible 'opposition' in Germany. So it is no wonder that this opposition has never developed any goals, plans, or expectations. Most of its members spend their time bemoaning the atrocities. The dreadful things that are happening have become essential to their spiritual well-being. Their only remaining dark pleasure is to luxuriate in the description of gruesome deeds, and it is impossible to have a discussion with them on any other topic.”

    People around you will forget that they once were anti-Trump.
    Christopher Isherwood wrote of his Berlin landlady in 1933: “Already she is adapting herself, as she will adapt herself to every new regime. This morning I even heard her talking reverently about Der Furher to the porter’s wife. If anyone was to remind her that at the elections last November she voted Communist she would probably deny it hotly and in perfect good faith. She is merely acclimatizing herself in accordance with a natural law, like an animal which changes its coat for the winter.”

    [...]

    MAGA will continue to believe what the leader says up until the very brink of disaster.

    In the summer of 1939, three months after Hitler invaded Czechoslovakia, Robert Jamieson, a British English teacher living in Essen, wrote to Lord Londonderry, who had recently acted as a go-between British and Nazi leaders: “[The Germans] really believe that the Czech government had voluntarily sought Hitler’s protection and that they would all starve if they do not get this lebensraum and colonies.
    Vitiate Man.

    History repeats the old conceits
    The glib replies, the same defeats


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  10. #2890
    Coffee farmer extraordinaire Member spmetla's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trump Thread

    This "signal chat" controversy is certainly an interesting one. If this were normal times it would probably result in a cabinet official or two being forced to resign.

    1. They should not have been using signal chat for this conversation at all, this is something belongs in a SCIF.

    2. It seems likely that some if not all were using personal phones, so this would be more spillage.

    3. The entire conversation being set to auto-delete is completely against all norms for retaining government records.

    4. It seems that Witcoff was in Russia during this conversation, possibly even in the Kremlin. Makes it very likely that his device and the conversation may have been intercepted by the Russians.

    5. That this was the 'small group' and the list of attendees wasn't scrutinized is sheer incompetence. We can just be happy the Journalist did the responsible thing and not immediately publish or leak the whole thing as that could get ships sunk and pilots shot down.

    This is already been spun as a 'nothing burger' by Fox and the rest of the MAGA information universe when in fact it is a serious and egregious violation of OPSEC, records keeping, etc...

    As a guy in the National Guard, I know that the Army in general loves WhatsApp and Signal chats for quickly coordinating day to day things. Makes it super easy for following up on admin tasks, putting out information to a group, and coordinating little things.

    It does not surprise me at all that this admin has so many that were using Signal Chat for secret/ top secret things against all norms. I think this is a telling sign that they do not trust the rank and file, especially within the security/intelligence community that would normally facilitate this type of conversation over secure means. They want deniability, they want as few 'professionals' in the room as possible, and they do not trust the 'deep state' even for routine inter agency coordination for something as sensitive as military strikes.

    I can only hope that this is the end of Sec Def and DNI and they are forced to resign but it looks as Mike Waltz will be the fall guy and the rest will just deny, minimize and skate away as there's so much damn news this administration creates that this story will go away in a few weeks as the ones that need to check these violations are the same ones that committed them.
    The Dems will hold more hearings, the Atlantic will probably publish red-acted images of the rest of the conversation to show that there was indeed secret information, Trump will tell one guy to resign to make this problem go away and then we as a nation will just go on to the next scandal/travesty that's currently happening.

    "Am I not destroying my enemies when I make friends of them?"
    -Abraham Lincoln


    Four stage strategy from Yes, Minister:
    Stage one we say nothing is going to happen.
    Stage two, we say something may be about to happen, but we should do nothing about it.
    Stage three, we say that maybe we should do something about it, but there's nothing we can do.
    Stage four, we say maybe there was something we could have done, but it's too late now.

  11. #2891

    Default Re: Trump Thread

    1. Every MAGA appointee deeply believes the rules don't apply to them, at all. (Rules are for abusing your lessers.)
    1.a. This is a fundamental principle of the MAGA appeal in general.

    https://x.com/urtropicalgal/status/1884737281757528135 [VIDEO]

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Accountability means the right people are in charge. It's not a question of what objectively, or even tendentiously, constitutes more or less accountability in behavior or policy.


    2. Everyone in that conversation seemed to defer to Miller, even (especially) Hegseth.
    3. Miller used phrasing like "as I heard" and other uncertain language to communicate Trump's orders, or at least Trump's intent. On policy of the highest international import. It may be the case more than before that Trump is being treated as a mad king by more energetic underlings. I don't think he even does rallies anymore, a regular feature during Trump I and one of his lifetime favorite activities.
    4. Vance doesn't understand the inner circle operation of Trumpism and never will. NEVER suggest that the big man may not understand something or may have got something mixed up.
    5. Vance and the others still don't understand the basics of world trade.
    6.
    Quote Originally Posted by John Ganz
    My high-level takeaway is “what you see is what you get. These guys might look like idiots, and talk like idiots, but don’t let that fool you: they really are idiots.

    As for Signal, there are reasonable circumstances in which to use it, securely, such as when dealing with quick, simple procedural updates. And who knows, by the way, how many people other than these in the Trump admins and beyond have been setting their communications to autodelete.

    Even during the first Trump era it was so poetic that Trump was essentially delivered to office by the manufactured moral panic (with Russian assist) over Hillary Clinton's secure and otherwise-regulated handling of a private email server for non-classified materials. Remember something as petty as how they tried to censor Trump's White House schedule and visitor lists years ago (he was occupied with TV, Twitter, golf, and general leisure), after Obama took the unusual steps of making as much info public as possible?
    Last edited by Montmorency; 03-26-2025 at 20:34.
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  12. #2892
    Coffee farmer extraordinaire Member spmetla's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trump Thread

    Vance doesn't understand the inner circle operation of Trumpism and never will. NEVER suggest that the big man may not understand something or may have got something mixed up.
    Vance and the others still don't understand the basics of world trade.
    They seem to absolutely loath our Allies for needing US help. The British used to have an Empire, used to control Yemen, but gave up even those up in the 60s Withdrawal East of the Suez after the US betrayal during the Suez Crisis in the late 50s. The Brits had Aden and the French, Djibouti, for exactly these reasons of securing a key choke point for trade.
    Like did they not see the fallout of the Suez being blocked by a single container ship for a few weeks. It took months for the flow of containers to unclog and get the backlog in the European and American ports sorted.

    All this also points to how disconnected Trump really is. He's not of this 'digital' generation, he doesn't even like to use email, I'm sure ppt briefings and working on computers bore him so he likely just gets executive summaries without any personal deep dives from people he likes. The VP is usually not in the Chain of Command of the military and is just a spare leader, that Trump isn't involved in any of this and just his handlers are involved is truly embarrassing.

    As for Signal, there are reasonable circumstances in which to use it, securely, such as when dealing with quick, simple procedural updates. And who knows, by the way, how many people other than these in the Trump admins and beyond have been setting their communications to autodelete.
    Yup, for routine admin, coordinating regular training, state side etc... Not for classified conversations at all.

    Even during the first Trump era it was so poetic that Trump was essentially delivered to office by the manufactured moral panic (with Russian assist) over Hillary Clinton's secure and otherwise-regulated handling of a private email server for non-classified materials. Remember something as petty as how they tried to censor Trump's White House schedule and visitor lists years ago (he was occupied with TV, Twitter, golf, and general leisure), after Obama took the unusual steps of making as much info public as possible?
    Part of it is a generational convenience problem. The Cold War military had people joining up and finding satcomm, radios and so on as extremely advanced and impressive. The current generation of leaders have grown up in a digital world and find the means for secure information as too slow and restrictive as it usually means secure locations, hard lines or well encrypted direct communications.

    There really needs to be some sort of digital OPSEC starter course that people need to take when they go into government. For Gabbard and Hegseth, there's no excuse. They as service members (even if on IRR or MDay status) have to still do their annual cyber security awareness quizes and so on. They absolutely should know that what they posted on Signal is at least Secret if not TS.

    I really wish that the Dems in their hearings would subpoena for the transcripts for this signal chat from each member involved in the chat. They need to push the issue that these meetings have no records and that is an egregious crime that is happening and will continue to happen.
    Hillary should have gotten in more trouble but as the R's found out, the W. Bush admin have private email servers as well. This habit just needs to stop completely. They are issued government phones and computers and need to be held to only using those items.
    The conveniences we are so used to in civilian life is destroying our national security when people cannot give it up when working in government. It's a systematic issue that makes us such easy targets for our enemies and appointed/elected officials that keep doing this need to finally be held to accountability.
    Not gonna happen from this administration though
    Last edited by spmetla; 03-30-2025 at 02:47.

    "Am I not destroying my enemies when I make friends of them?"
    -Abraham Lincoln


    Four stage strategy from Yes, Minister:
    Stage one we say nothing is going to happen.
    Stage two, we say something may be about to happen, but we should do nothing about it.
    Stage three, we say that maybe we should do something about it, but there's nothing we can do.
    Stage four, we say maybe there was something we could have done, but it's too late now.

  13. #2893

    Default Re: Trump Thread

    Heh, there aren't many ways Clinton could have been through more trouble!

    As I saw it, while there are good reasons for the protocols in place, all the evidence that came out proved Clinton personally handled her office's communications about as diligently as one could. And if the Russians were able to hack Republicans and Democrats left and right, then not her. Of course, many found it a little perverse to scapegoat her for a basically universal form of corner-cutting (not even corruption).

    But even if one personally determined that this was all disqualifying for her as a political candidate, it was always plain to see that Trump was much worse - on discretion, on information security, on law/rule-abidingness, and on other relevant axes. It's why the media always worked so hard, successfully, to invent bizarre conspiracies about the Clintons to try to catastrophize their flaws and negate their positive qualities, whether for "balance" or as part of the "scream machine" itself.

    I recall commenting late in the election season that the Hillary Clinton pneumonia story was the most noteworthy development about her all campaign. I hope the irony was plain.

    In a way, this even happened with Biden in the form of his relentless age 'controversy'. The man was demonstrably not as energetic and engaged as he was in his 70s, but he was also demonstrably managing to engage with his job daily in ways that Trump literally never could in his prime (never mind that in his own old age Trump reserved all his energy for bellowing at rallies and being angry on social media, i.e. the pro wrestling projection of virility). But the mainstream media narratives only hammered the point for the one and not the other, making the point in a vacuum that one would prefer POTUS not to have those limitations, or even that gerontocracy was problematic in principle. Coverage of the age issue, somehow, totally disappeared at approximately the end of last July, though someone was still the oldest presidential nominee in history... That's working out predictably now.

    Hell, look at Mitch McConnell. The guy has been barely holding it together in public for a few years now, but I doubt Trump has even 20% of the mental capacity McConnell has left.
    Vitiate Man.

    History repeats the old conceits
    The glib replies, the same defeats


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  14. #2894

    Default Re: Trump Thread

    Senior tax officials are bracing for a sharp drop in revenue collected this spring, as an increasing number of individuals and businesses spurn filing their taxes or attempt to skip paying balances owed to the Internal Revenue Service, according to three people with knowledge of tax projections.

    Treasury Department and IRS officials are predicting a decrease of more than 10 percent in tax receipts by the April 15 deadline compared with 2024, said the people, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to share nonpublic data. That would amount to more than $500 billion in lost federal revenue; the IRS collected $5.1 trillion last year.
    Musk is reportedly also seeking the end of tax enforcement at the Justice Department, on top of his other corrupt activities and self-dealing. The United States is in progress of the greatest class-level theft in its history as a country, basically on the scale of the Nazis looting France or Poland, but without a fight. 'And everything that's nailed down...' We may have opportunity to test the full extent of the sovereign privileges of the US dollar before long. I wonder which goes first, your military benefits or your Social Security.

    Maybe after you present for the Maximum Leader's promenade this year, you and the other lucky candidates from the ReserveArmy can be transitioned to realizing the 5-Year Concepts-of-a-Plan for reshoring American sweatshops.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Trump already deserved a street execution more than 99.9999% of humanity, conservatively, before this year, but it's coming to be the only option left. And we haven't seen anything yet.


    Never forget that the Republicans bore all this through as a generational project, and could still stop it at any time.

    Tangentially, this comment echoes my impressions for the past month on the tariff 'strategy.'

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    The outcome of yesterday's meeting between Trump and Netanyahu is probably the worst economic news so far.

    1. Prior to the effective date of The Tariffs*, Israel offered the US across-the-board zero tariff rates. (Now, Israel's average effective tariff rate on US exports is in the 1-2% range, but that's neither here nor there.) Trump refused and imposed tariffs on Israel on schedule.

    2. Immediately after the imposition of The Tariffs, Netanyahu requested an immediate personal meeting with Donald Trump. His request was granted. Now, this is the stuff Trump loves. A world leader "begging" for a meeting! A chance to have a "negotiation!" Face-to-face! Two men in a room! The White House scheduled a press conference following the meeting, presumably expecting to have something Very Beautiful to announce.

    3. The meeting happened.

    4. The White House cancelled the press conference, opting instead for a brief joint appearance from the Oval.

    5. The only "agreement" announced was Netanyahu "agreeing" to do something about Israel's trade surplus with the United States. The tariffs remain in place. (Also, Iran bad.)

    My -- speculative -- interpretation of this sequence of events is that (a) Netanyahu did everything right -- i.e., did everything he possibly could to flatter and mollify Trump, and (b) it wasn't enough, because Trump is serious about this trade deficit crap.

    The fact that Benjamin Netanyahu couldn't find a way to get Trump to budge on this seems, to me, to be incontrovertible evidence that Trump is all-in on his insane trade war. It's not a con; it's a genuine obsession. Which is disastrous news.

    * I suspect that we're going to wind up capitalizing The Tariffs, a bit like The Troubles.


    I literally even predicted 100% tariffs on China, though I believe Trump has personally made that threat in some speeches, so it's not a tremendous bet (still displaying far more skill and comprehension than most professional macroeconomic analysts here...).

    Trump, above any other epithet, is a madman in the traditional sense, which is to say that he harbors the irrational conviction that he can and must defy the most basic facts of nature. Now that he has unlimited power within grasp, we are seeing the ramifications of that ever-present and often-communicated madness. There is really no psychological difference between this and Chairman Mao demanding that the Chinese peasantry industrialize China by their own backyard efforts, or that "man must conquer nature" and therefore every citizen must participate in the designated extermination of certain species of wildlife, albeit Trump is profoundly less rational across the board than even Mao... But I don't expect that quite as many people will die from this one tyrant's madness, not directly.
    Last edited by Montmorency; 04-09-2025 at 01:23.
    Vitiate Man.

    History repeats the old conceits
    The glib replies, the same defeats


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  15. #2895
    Coffee farmer extraordinaire Member spmetla's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trump Thread

    I wonder which goes first, your military benefits or your Social Security.
    I'm sure social security will go first. For the military benefits, that'll be useful for them to threaten non-loyalists. If you voice disagreement then in future they could dishonorably or other than honorably discharge service members and they'd be denied any benefits no matter how many years of service they had. Similar to what he did to FBI Director McCabe.

    At least it looks like Musk may go soon for annoying too many inner circle Trumpers but the damage he's done to this country will take decades to fix if we're even given that opportunity.

    Never forget that the Republicans bore all this through as a generational project and could still stop it at any time.

    Tangentially, this comment echoes my impressions for the past month on the tariff 'strategy.'
    Ass seen with Murkowski's comments today, the traditional republicans are scared of losing their seats or scared of actual violence against them and will stay inline.

    I literally even predicted 100% tariffs on China, though I believe Trump has personally made that threat in some speeches, so it's not a tremendous bet (still displaying far more skill and comprehension than most professional macroeconomic analysts here...).

    Trump, above any other epithet, is a madman in the traditional sense, which is to say that he harbors the irrational conviction that he can and must defy the most basic facts of nature. Now that he has unlimited power within grasp, we are seeing the ramifications of that ever-present and often-communicated madness. There is really no psychological difference between this and Chairman Mao demanding that the Chinese peasantry industrialize China by their own backyard efforts, or that "man must conquer nature" and therefore every citizen must participate in the designated extermination of certain species of wildlife, albeit Trump is profoundly less rational across the board than even Mao... But I don't expect that quite as many people will die from this one tyrant's madness, not directly.
    He is absolutely as bad as so many of us has predicated. It's certainly frustrating when hearing 'surprised' Trump voters that liked the first administration and don't like this second run of hist. As so many of us have said, the 'deep state' and 'RINOS' around Trump the first time are what kept the slightest semblance of normality going. That what they liked weren't Trump's policies but traditional Republican policies.

    Trump's hold on the base of Republican voters despite working against their interest are keeping him safe from the old guard Republicans that hate Trump.

    It's shocking though to see that 2/3s of Republicans are totally okay with denying non-citizens due process. They honestly can't see how being denied their time in court before deporting is so absolutely vital to protect regular citizens too.

    Wonder if this is what Romans must have felt like as Augustus dismembered what remained of the Republic following his Civil War with Marc Antony. No return to 'norms' it seems

    "Am I not destroying my enemies when I make friends of them?"
    -Abraham Lincoln


    Four stage strategy from Yes, Minister:
    Stage one we say nothing is going to happen.
    Stage two, we say something may be about to happen, but we should do nothing about it.
    Stage three, we say that maybe we should do something about it, but there's nothing we can do.
    Stage four, we say maybe there was something we could have done, but it's too late now.

  16. #2896

    Default Re: Trump Thread

    Wonder if this is what Romans must have felt like as Augustus dismembered what remained of the Republic following his Civil War with Marc Antony. No return to 'norms' it seems
    Augustus?? Well, this is only a fitting capstone for this website:
    https://www.attalus.org/cicero/verres25_3.html
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaius_Verres

    The man of whom I speak, Gavius of Consa, was one of those Roman citizens whom Verres threw into prison. Somehow or other he escaped from the Stone Quarries, and made his way to Messana... To this Verres replied that he had discovered that Gavius had been sent to Sicily as a spy by the leaders of the fugitive army, a charge which was brought by no informer, for which there was no evidence, and which nobody saw any reason to believe. He then ordered the man to be flogged severely all over his body. There in the open marketplace of Messana a Roman citizen, gentlemen, was beaten with rods ; and all the while, amid the crack of the falling blows, no groan was heard from the unhappy man, no words came from his lips in his agony except “I am a Roman citizen.” By thus proclaiming his citizenship he had been hoping to avert all those blows and shield his body from torture ; yet not only did he fail to secure escape from those cruel rods, but when he persisted in his entreaties and his appeals to his citizen rights, a cross was made ready – yes, a cross, for that hapless and broken sufferer, who had never seen such an accursed thing till then.

    Does freedom, that precious thing, mean nothing? nor the proud privileges of a citizen of Rome? nor the Porcian law, the Sempronian laws? nor the tribunes’ power, whose loss our people felt so deeply till now at last it has been restored to them ? Have all these things come in the end to mean so little that in a Roman province, in a town whose people have special privileges, a Roman citizen could be bound and flogged in the market-place by a man who owed his rods and axes to the favour of the Roman people ?
    I mean, Trump's career-long combination of eliminating the rights of non-citizens while arrogating the authority to negate the citizenship of citizens is not exactly subtle.

    The fact that the manner of thing quoted in Cicero has always been going on in the depths of American jails and prisons for all time should help explain, and facilitate our predicament...
    Last edited by Montmorency; 04-18-2025 at 06:17.
    Vitiate Man.

    History repeats the old conceits
    The glib replies, the same defeats


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  17. #2897
    Coffee farmer extraordinaire Member spmetla's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trump Thread

    I only referenced Augustus as he ended any hopes of the restoration of the Republic. Trump is more a Nero for sure.

    I hadn't read about Gaius Verres. It is extremely similar. However, in our present the criminal Trump as succeeded in the delays and waiting for friendly courts.

    I'll have to read Cicero's piece there at a later time, bookmarked for reading, thank you for sharing!

    "Am I not destroying my enemies when I make friends of them?"
    -Abraham Lincoln


    Four stage strategy from Yes, Minister:
    Stage one we say nothing is going to happen.
    Stage two, we say something may be about to happen, but we should do nothing about it.
    Stage three, we say that maybe we should do something about it, but there's nothing we can do.
    Stage four, we say maybe there was something we could have done, but it's too late now.

  18. #2898

    Default Re: Trump Thread

    Elon Musk's team have openly spent 3 months illegally seizing access to computer and data systems throughout the government, granting themselves unlimited administrative access to the deepest layers of network and software while attempting to conceal their specific activities. This alone constitutes the worst hostile data breach of the US government ever.

    The situation is even worse than was previously known, as is the typical cycle.
    Vitiate Man.

    History repeats the old conceits
    The glib replies, the same defeats


    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



  19. #2899

    Default Re: Trump Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Trump
    Other Countries are offering all sorts of incentives to draw our filmmakers and studios away from the United States. Hollywood, and many other areas within the U.S.A., are being devastated. This is a concerted effort by other Nations and, therefore, a National Security threat," the president wrote. "It is, in addition to everything else, messaging and propaganda!
    Jesus Christ, they may not keep him from moving on services. Raving madman. At least there's always the 'maritime exchange'.

    Some interesting quotes from a certain Romanian presidential candidate, you know, the one who's been getting banhammered in the middle of elections.

    This gentle-seeming New Age mystic has praised Ion Antonescu, the Romanian wartime dictator who conspired with Hitler and was sentenced to death for war crimes, including his role in the Romanian Holocaust. He has called both Antonescu and the prewar leader of the Iron Guard, a violent anti-Semitic movement, national heroes. He twice met with Alexander Dugin, the Russian fascist ideologue, who posted on X a (subsequently deleted) statement that “Romania will be part of Russia.” And at the same time, Georgescu praises the spiritual qualities of water. “We don’t know what water is,” he has said; “H2O means nothing.” Also, “Water has a memory, and we destroy its soul through pollution,” and “Water is alive and sends us messages, but we don’t know how to listen to them.” He believes that carbonated drinks contain nanochips that “enter into you like a laptop.” His wife, Cristela, produces YouTube videos on healing, using terms such as lymphatic acidosis and calcium metabolism to make her points. Both of them also promote “peace,” a vague goal that seems to mean that Romania, which borders Ukraine and Moldova, should stop helping Ukraine defend itself against Russian invaders. “War cannot be won by war,” Cristela Georgescu wrote on Instagram a few weeks before voting began. “War destroys not only physically, it destroys HEARTS.”
    (It's little consolation that the next president of Romania is somewhat likely to be George Simion...)

    Leaving aside RFK Jr. and a host of others, remember when Hegseth revealed that he doesn't wash his hands because microbes don't exist, and doesn't wear a helmet when riding a bike (because external objects do not exist, perhaps)? And how most of what Elon Musk's DOGE has actually succeeded in dismantling is America's world-class government-funded scientific agencies and investments? It's a further illustration of the centrality of "woo" across 20th-century political lines in rejecting modern science, philosophy, and civilization in general. Ten years ago, I imagined a resurgence in fascistic politics later in the 21st century. Even then, let alone 20 years ago, I could never have imagined that woo would be winning, or that it would unify around ultra-reactionary politics.

    Literally this as a worldview while still demanding all the fruits and luxuries of modern civilization - not even having the honesty of anarchoprimitivism.





    In related news, it is estimated that England, the original birthplace of mass atheism, is on course to become plurality Catholic for the first time in 500 years somewhere around the point where Brazil is set to become minority Catholic for the first time in 500 years. Shit, and I'm supposed to be worried about immigrants changing cultures lol. @rory_20_uk

    Is this what being caught in the teeth of the Great Filter looks like?
    Last edited by Montmorency; Today at 04:09.
    Vitiate Man.

    History repeats the old conceits
    The glib replies, the same defeats


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