Swords and Sorcery Mafia Without the Swords [Concluded]

[Renata]

Well Al flipping corrupted changes a lot. I feel less certain of my previous assertions...

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I don't know what to say really...

Is this not exactly how Visor plays as town? He seems normal to me. I thought his argument was interesting at least...

Also, @Montmorency I Detected Corruption on someone and they were not corrupted, so unless I got redirected or some other nonsense it should be correct. I'm not gonna say who for obvious reasons unless you guys come after me with the pitchforks...

Some day two posts of Csargo I didn't like.

[Renata]

Jailkeep? If roleblock precedes redirect in this game, then Zack's scan on Sooh is valid for Sooh.

And regardless, lynching Sooh likely sheds a lot of light on the day two wagons, if it doesn't end the game.

[Arakhor]

No. It's a unique spell effect. I doubt it would have stopped him acting that night, so in retrospect, it was probably a complete waste of my time.

[Montmorency]

How are you arriving at this conclusion?

If atheotes redirected from himself onto Sooh (though not the kill somehow), then Zack's scan on Sooh would actually be reading atheotes as uncorrupt (which we know from flip).

If roleblock precedes redirect, then atheotes never redirected himself, was killed normally by someone, and Zack scanned Sooh legitimately (barring that awful anti-Zack tinfoil I would never dare to endorse, or to be fair anti-Sooh tinfoil)

It's the scenario that makes the most sense, and it works whatever atheotes' true actions were.

N2 Claims:

Montmorency: Dead scan BSmith, BSmith scanned Winston uncorrupt N1
Zack: Scan Sooh, not corrupt
Choxorn: Watch Renata, no visitors
Csargo: No action
Snerk: Block Lewwyn, attempt failed
Arakhor: Blocked atheotes

[Montmorency]

Oh. OK, that complicates things. Arakhor, what exactly was the spell effect?

[Arakhor]

I drained some of his mana, so I know I was able to target him, but I have no idea how much he was affected. As I said, it was a stupid waste of my unique spell.

[Arakhor]

It was only a small amount too, so I really shouldn't have bothered. I'm actually annoyed with myself.

[Montmorency]

I drained some of his mana, so I know I was able to target him, but I have no idea how much he was affected. As I said, it was a stupid waste of my unique spell.

That's the mana drain spell I mentioned D2.

Jesus, you may have killed him if you put him in negative mana.

And you took away mana from yourself in the process. :(

[Renata]

If atheotes redirected from himself onto Sooh (though not the kill somehow), then Zack's scan on Sooh would actually be reading atheotes as uncorrupt (which we know from flip).

If roleblock precedes redirect, then atheotes never redirected himself, was killed normally by someone, and Zack scanned Sooh legitimately (barring that awful anti-Zack tinfoil I would never dare to endorse, or to be fair anti-Sooh tinfoil)

It's the scenario that makes the most sense, and it works whatever atheotes' true actions were.

N2 Claims:

Montmorency: Dead scan BSmith, BSmith scanned Winston uncorrupt N1
Zack: Scan Sooh, not corrupt
Choxorn: Watch Renata, no visitors
Csargo: No action
Snerk: Block Lewwyn, attempt failed
Arakhor: Blocked atheotes

Unless Sooh did something herself to make herself read town, and that's why there were no kills -- she didn't have the option to do both. Redirecting actions from herself onto a townie, for instance (atheotes would work nicely even), or using a godfather type power.

[Csargo]

Some day two posts of Csargo I didn't like.

The first part I tried to explain later on. I don't think I can be more clear.

The second one was because I thought the post was more insulting than constructive, even though he wasn't wrong.

I genuinely thought Visor would have been more voracious in his own defense. I thought given his absence he was town. I was wrong about it though, I'm terrible at this I'm finding.

[Montmorency]

Unless Sooh did something herself to make herself read town, and that's why there were no kills -- she didn't have the option to do both. Redirecting actions from herself onto a townie, for instance (atheotes would work nicely even), or using a godfather type power.

It turns out Arakhor did something entirely different than RB anyway. We need to hear more claims.



Also: if Snerk's actions failed twice against different people, then using the failed scan on Sooh as evidence against her is diminished in standing. Plus it's very unlikely that a Snerk-Sooh team would want to worsen the positions of both in such a weird, pointless way.


And another note of technical confusion that can further muddle our thinking: the role several of us have reported using or knowing of is "redirector", or a power that allows actions against one player to be diverted onto another. However, this seems to fit mafiascum wiki's description of the "Bus Driver", with the redirector role being a counterpart which switches the target's target to whomever is the redirector's choice. You see the difference, active vs. passive, eh? Terminology aside, I wonder whether both abilities are not present in this game.

[Renata]

It turns out Arakhor did something entirely different than RB anyway. We need to hear more claims.



Also: if Snerk's actions failed twice against different people, then using the failed scan on Sooh as evidence against her is diminished in standing. Plus it's very unlikely that a Snerk-Sooh team would want to worsen the positions of both in such a weird, pointless way.


And another note of technical confusion that can further muddle our thinking: the role several of us have reported using or knowing of is "redirector", or a power that allows actions against one player to be diverted onto another. However, this seems to fit mafiascum wiki's description of the "Bus Driver", with the redirector role being a counterpart which switches the target's target to whomever is the redirector's choice. You see the difference, active vs. passive, eh? Terminology aside, I wonder whether both abilities are not present in this game.

It's possible.

Redirector switches all actions aimed at player X onto player Y. there is no effect upon actions aimed at player Y to begin with; they still go through as intended.

Bus driver switches all actions aimed at player X onto player Y AND all actions aimed at player Y onto player X.

As far as I know it's up to mod preference as to whether the players whose actions are redirected are aware of it or not.

[Arakhor]

Atheotes would needed to have next to mana left (on Night 2, no less) for me to have killed him and I doubt I would have killed him in exactly the same way as the incinerate effect. Moreover, that would mean that the scum still haven't successfully killed anyone, all of which being true simultaneously seems very unlikely.

[Arakhor]

Jabbz said that there would be no bastard options, so I can only assume that if I received PMs saying that no one visited Zack or that I affected Atheotes, I can only assume that that is what actually happened.

[Arakhor]

(One too many uses of "I can only assume" there.)

[Montmorency]

Meh, these permutations probably aren't worth the effort. Lynch her. I guess Snerk is suitable too.

I just really want to confront some grand scheme, not a DOA scum team.

[Choxorn]

Atheotes would needed to have next to mana left (on Night 2, no less) for me to have killed him and I doubt I would have killed him in exactly the same way as the incinerate effect. Moreover, that would mean that the scum still haven't successfully killed anyone, all of which being true simultaneously seems very unlikely.

It seems likely they were responsible for BSmith's death, actually, unless GH vigged him and isn't telling us, because I think everyone else has already claimed doing something different on Night 1.

[Lewwyn]

No corruption on Sooh.

Man... I just don't believe this. There are too many possible spells she could have cast such as redirect any spells to a villager, or a godfather scan villager spell.

[Lewwyn]

I just self protected last night.

[Lewwyn]

I tried to block Lewwyn but it failed, no explanation given me. (terminology was that it "fizzled")

Why did you try to block me?

[Zack]

Man... I just don't believe this. There are too many possible spells she could have cast such as redirect any spells to a villager, or a godfather scan villager spell.

Yeah it's a definite possibility.

[Montmorency]

@Sooh obviously needs to claim.
@Renata, please claim.

Lewwyn's claim confirms Snerk's failure: remember that hiding trumps everything, so any action "fizzles" against it, as Renata did against me N1. What this means for Snerk against Sooh N1...

Vote: Sooh

Today it has to be either Sooh or Csargo.

GH, just tell us your actions already. It's past meta at this point - to brute force or not to brute force is no longer the question. This thing has been blown wide open, and there's no honor in self-handicap to prolong a done deal.

[Lewwyn]

I went back again to look at the wording, and Sooh never really says she protected Renata. But it is clear the only person that she says looks townie is Renata. She says she protects the person she said was most townie during the night = Renata. Atheotes is town, only sees Al Sips (for what we have to assume is a roleblock given renata's spell failing) and no Sooh visiting Renata.

So given what appears to be scum caught in a lie, vs an noncorrupt scan which could have been manipulated. I have to go with the lie. It's just the more simple explanation.

It also makes me glad that I didn't jail atheotes last night like I had originally planned. If I had, he'd be alive and we'd likely be lynching him for "lying".

[Lewwyn]

Vote: Sooh

[Montmorency]

Vote: Sooh

She confirmed at EOD yesterday. Her biggest saving grace is putting Visor the scum over the edge, but if it's m/m wagons then as I said per Visor's non-self-preservation it's NAI. Still, it's there.

Can confirm Renata.
I understand your reasons, though it's a shame me being sick should determine how I end up this game, but I guess we all have an off game.

I'm going to self-pres this time.

Vote: Visor

[Lewwyn]

Lewwyn's claim confirms Snerk's failure: remember that hiding trumps everything, so any action "fizzles" against it, as Renata did against me N1. What this means for Snerk against Sooh N1...

Ah good. That really makes things even clearer.

[Renata]

I jailkept GH.

[Zack]

I went back again to look at the wording, and Sooh never really says she protected Renata. But it is clear the only person that she says looks townie is Renata. She says she protects the person she said was most townie during the night = Renata. Atheotes is town, only sees Al Sips (for what we have to assume is a roleblock given renata's spell failing) and no Sooh visiting Renata.

So given what appears to be scum caught in a lie, vs an noncorrupt scan which could have been manipulated. I have to go with the lie. It's just the more simple explanation.

It also makes me glad that I didn't jail atheotes last night like I had originally planned. If I had, he'd be alive and we'd likely be lynching him for "lying".

I mean, I thought it was funny because she made SUCH a big deal d1 of me answering her random question obliquely. Then she answers a pretty important question in a vague way.

[Renata]

I noticed the irony as well. :)

[Montmorency]

I jailkept GH.

Right. @WinstonHughes We need your claim, buddy.

So, here's the plan:

1. Lynch Sooh
2. Town? Start over

1. Lynch Sooh
2. Scum, no game end? Csargo and GH are suspect
3. I will jailkeep one of Csargo and GH tonight. Vigs are forbidden. Do not redirect anything from either of them
4. Discuss to take stock of remaining JK, track, watch, and scan powers; specific assignments are a possibility depending what we come up with


N2 Claims:

Montmorency: Dead scan BSmith, BSmith scanned Winston uncorrupt N1
Zack: Scan Sooh, not corrupt
Choxorn: Watch Renata, no visitors
Csargo: No action
Snerk: Block Lewwyn, attempt failed
Arakhor: Manadrain atheotes 'for a low amount'
Lewwyn: Commuted/Invisibility
Renata: Blocked (JK?) Hankerchief
Winston Hughes:
Sooh: