Swords and Sorcery Mafia Without the Swords [Concluded]

[Zack]

I think ___(player)____ is a wolf because ___(half-baked meta read)___

(visor), (struggling to make reads here, when in a past game he berated and pushed me for not having a strong opinion on someone 100 posts into d1)

[Visor]

Dp101 - 6 (Bsmith, Choxorn, Kcaz, Lewwyn, Montmorency, Renata)
Al Sipsclar - 5 (Arakhor, Dp101, GHC, Visor, Winston Hughes)
Montmorency - 2 (Atheotes, Al Sipsclar)
Arakhor - 1 (Csargo)
Kcaz - 1 (Sooh)
Renata -1 (Snerk)

That's where we stand. Bussing is more likely at the end of the wagon rather than the start for obvious reasons, though that vote count isn't written in order of vote, sadly.

Atheotes and Al voting together is (IMO) a good look for Atheotes, though I am fairly likely to be biased as I already think he's a villager.

Kinda yolo, but gonna consider the offwagoners off the table for today, so Atheotes, Csargo, Sooh and Snerk are all villagers for this chapter.

So:

BSmith

Visor
Choxorn
Atheotes
Csargo
Sooh
Snerk


Zack
Lewwyn
Monty
Renata
Arakhor
GH
Winston

Time to go digging.

[Renata]

Your reasoning for leaving out the off-wagon voters kinda sucks. Just for one reason, not all of them were present at EoD.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Might be worth looking at the offwagon voters too, as it is a reasonable chance they are town simply because wolves don't want to be off w/w wagons due to image.

Agree with this.

Before Al Sips flipped, I was of the opinion that Dp was not saved and thought that pointed more to offwagon voters/folks who weren't around EoD than any possible bussing. Not sure where that stands after Al's resolution. Maybe the people who looked uncomfortable at EoD yesterday.

[Csargo]

Well Al flipping corrupted changes a lot. I feel less certain of my previous assertions...

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

[GeneralHankerchief]

Agree with this.

Before Al Sips flipped, I was of the opinion that Dp was not saved and thought that pointed more to offwagon voters/folks who weren't around EoD than any possible bussing. Not sure where that stands after Al's resolution. Maybe the people who looked uncomfortable at EoD yesterday.

Wait, misread that Visor quote, I'd disagree with it.

[Zack]

so the fact that i've peeked winston as not-scum doesn't factor at all into your reads?

[Visor]

vote: Al sipsclar

Shall we test this straight away?

Al Sipsclar

Argh.

vote: Al Sipsclar

I can't decide right now if you (Winston) are a you problem or a me problem. I do believe that Al Sipsclar promise to catch up on a thread that at that point doesn't need catching up on (it was like 20 posts deep if that), followed by nothing, is >rand scum.

Renata, I really, really disagree with your continued pushing of winston. It looks exactly like mafia pushing a slightly odd townie, and I would have expected that town!you would have found something else by now.

I agree you about disliking DP's vote. I also think though that it could also be as scum defending someone who is town and buddying up. It ties into DP's decision that Winston is obvtown, which again I don't think is obvious. In either case, I find his reactions to be suspicious too.

DP101

I didn't know there was a lynchproof spell, it wasn't among my options.



I don't like this post at all, it sounds like what a scum would say if they wanted to defend a scumbuddy and go after the one attacking them. What do you mean, would have found something else by now? It's been a few pages, and it's still day 1, there's not much to go on.

Vote: Dp101



Well, only for one hand, he can still get more for his other hand, can't he (oh dear god, please no)

Wish you could quote more than whatever stupid amount this is.

Quoted a DP interaction here that is pretty good with obvious caveat that they decided to bus hard immediately D1.

Renata/Choxorn come away looking good here. Possible that Lewwyn is overexplaining his vote on DP here.

Winston's post on Al just noting for now.

[Visor]

Your reasoning for leaving out the off-wagon voters kinda sucks. Just for one reason, not all of them were present at EoD.

Sure. But its not like both the Dp and Al wagons were EoD constructions?

[Visor]

so the fact that i've peeked winston as not-scum doesn't factor at all into your reads?

Didn't see it.

I'll make a note of it anyway.

[Visor]

Let's make some wild assumptions.


Visor
Choxorn
Atheotes
Csargo
Sooh
Snerk
Renata
Zack
Winston

Monty
Arakhor
GH
Lewwyn

Its a bottom four, GH, but it looks okay to me.

[Zack]

you think dp tried to cfd onto another teammate when the wagons were already w/w?

[GeneralHankerchief]

Let's make some wild assumptions.


Visor
Choxorn
Atheotes
Csargo
Sooh
Snerk
Renata
Zack
Winston

Monty
Arakhor
GH
Lewwyn

Its a bottom four, GH, but it looks okay to me.

Why Monty?

Also, why me, but mostly why Monty?

[Visor]

you think dp tried to cfd onto another teammate when the wagons were already w/w?

Obvious answer here is he is trying to spew his bro villager.

That said, the list comes from the below.

Why Monty?

Also, why me, but mostly why Monty?

Its not so much an issue of why Monty, more that I find other people more villagery than him. (and I have made a number of assumptions wrt Zack/Winston/offwagon voters)

[Montmorency]

Let's make some wild assumptions.


Visor
Choxorn
Atheotes
Csargo
Sooh
Snerk
Renata
Zack
Winston

Monty
Arakhor
GH
Lewwyn

Its a bottom four, GH, but it looks okay to me.

Lol, I've disagreed with most of your input today. Lewwyn and Arakhor at least should be near the top, certainly above the off-wagoners.

[Visor]

Indulging on the actions of a wolf who is a major wagon at EOD seems to be an exercise in WIFOM. There are other things to look at.

[Visor]

Lol, I've disagreed with most of your input today. Lewwyn and Arakhor at least should be near the top, certainly above the off-wagoners.

Why?

[Montmorency]

Why?

Why are the off-wagoners some of the towniest players in your opinion, and in a block at that?

Arakhor and Lewwyn advanced proven pro-town arguments. Lewwyn was in fact first or near-first to confront DP101.

[Visor]

Why are the off-wagoners some of the towniest players in your opinion, and in a block at that?

Arakhor and Lewwyn advanced proven pro-town arguments. Lewwyn was in fact first or near-first to confront DP101.

I said it earlier.

"Might be worth looking at the offwagon voters too, as it is a reasonable chance they are town simply because wolves don't want to be off w/w wagons due to image."

The argument that they weren't around for EoD doesn't hold water either because Al and DP were wagons for most of the day.

I know the stereotypical approach is WOLVES MUST BE OFFWAGON or OFFWAGONERS MUST BE SCUM

but I don't think it makes much sense in this case. Its a starting point, anyway.

[Visor]

If you disagree with any of those reads, tell me why [x] offwagoner is wolfy?

I said earlier that I found Atheotes and Csargo villagery for reasons not relating to their wagon positioning.

[Montmorency]

I said it earlier.

"Might be worth looking at the offwagon voters too, as it is a reasonable chance they are town simply because wolves don't want to be off w/w wagons due to image."

The argument that they weren't around for EoD doesn't hold water either because Al and DP were wagons for most of the day.

I know the stereotypical approach is WOLVES MUST BE OFFWAGON or OFFWAGONERS MUST BE SCUM

but I don't think it makes much sense in this case. Its a starting point, anyway.

So the correct approach is to start assuming towniness? Csargo, Snerk and Sooh are townier than Renata, Zack, and Winston?

If you mention that the wagons were standing for much of the day, then Renata and Arakhor should clearly move up.

[Montmorency]

If you disagree with any of those reads, tell me why [x] offwagoner is wolfy?

I said earlier that I found Atheotes and Csargo villagery for reasons not relating to their wagon positioning.

I spoke on atheotes as well. Csargo and Snerk are still null. Sooh is moving down for her low-profile contribution today.

[Visor]

So the correct approach is to start assuming towniness? Csargo, Snerk and Sooh are townier than Renata, Zack, and Winston?

If you mention that the wagons were standing for much of the day, then Renata and Arakhor should clearly move up.

The list isn't exactly ordered.

What was so villagery about Arakhor's vote?

Let me order the list for you.

Visor
Choxorn - pure explained a number of times
Atheotes - explained before
Renata - see above/interactions/voted both wolves, etc.
Zack - claimed a peek on Winston
Winston - claimed to be peeked
Csargo - offwagon plus liked night posts
Sooh - offwagon
Snerk - offwagon

What's left (mostly unsorted)
Monty - shrug
Arakhor - shrug? In two minds on his vote on Al Sips, 1, gives little credit if bussing, 2 decent way to bus without looking like bussing. lol.
GH - hardcore tunneling of atheotes
Lewwyn - possible overexplanation of DP vote

The Offwagon thing is an assumption on my part. If you think either sooh or snerk (the weakest offwagoners imo) have been explicitly wolfy then show it to me.

[Visor]

I spoke on atheotes as well. Csargo and Snerk are still null. Sooh is moving down for her low-profile contribution today.

It has only been day for 4 hours... lol.

[Montmorency]

GH - hardcore tunneling of atheotes
Lewwyn - possible overexplanation of DP vote

and no.

Leaving aside Sooh's D1 chewing on Zack over the GH vote and change:

Well, there's trying, and then there's TRYING!!!!!

During the night: GH looks bad for EOD pending Al's flip. Doubt there were many scums bussing D1, maybe one or two at most. Might be that some weren't here for EOD who bussed earlier in the day when it looked safe, and some felt they couldn't jump off because it would seem strange. One thing I will admit is that this I was mistaken in thinking this post was by Sooh:

Woo just what I wanted to be, middle of the road. Sweet.

Sooh today: Renata made it impossible for DP to live, GH's seemed to be genuinely trying to tie DP and Al, but thinking about it too much leads to WIFOM. Pantomimes throwing shade on GH while calling his vote-switch a good move.

Given Winston and Zack moving up, she is more than suitable to fill their slot.

For you, at least, the argument that there was no more bussing D1 can't sit with your town-reading the off-wagoners.

[Zack]

why would i not be townread even without peekaments anyways

[Renata]

I want to lynch Visor even more after that exercise in non-analysis.

Unforunately I am feeling too sick right now to push anything.

[Renata]

GH, if you're town here, listen to me: it sounds like Beck in copless.

[Montmorency]

GH, if you're town here, listen to me: it sounds like Beck in copless.

I looked up "Beck in copless" and this is what I got.

[GeneralHankerchief]

GH, if you're town here, listen to me: it sounds like Beck in copless.

Wow, I didn't think that would be as triggering as it was.

I'll try to take a look before I go to sleep tonight.