Swords and Sorcery Mafia Without the Swords [Concluded]

[Choxorn]

Tinfoil: there are 5 scums because town has a metric feckton of PR abilities :)

Possible, but that seems like a very high number for just a 16 player game. I'd say 3rd party roles are far more likely than a 5-man scum team.

I also think that a 5-man scum team could do a better job of keeping votes away from two of their members on day 1.

[Zack]

csargo was the one who peeked gh, iirc

[Montmorency]

Wow. Well. Talk about low WIM.

First post is me saying I hadn't self-protected. Second post, following, is atheotes claiming a watch on me where he saw only Al Sips. I think the timing of this gives a tiny boost to atheotes telling the truth, because if he's lying about watching me, then my claiming no self-protect has got to give him pause about the staying power of a claim that outside protector was present.

He also had a post prior to these two, which I didn't include, that suggested he was thinking I had self-protected, something that makes sense considering what he claims to have seen.

It's not clearing in at least a couple different ways, but it's a thing that make me feel a bit better about all these Sooh votes right now. I still don't like the idea of Visor wriggling off the hook. I think he's been objectively scummy and I don't want him around gumming up the works any longer than necessary.

In other news, I don't know how Csargo has gone from looking so towny previously to looking so scummy today. Weirdness.

On atheotes and sooh (I should have thought of this earlier; atheotes briefly tangled with a similar possibility after your post):

If atheotes scum and sooh town, then it's as simple as atheotes PIS that Al Sipsclar tried attacking Renata, but without the complementary knowledge that Sooh is what saved her.

It's a real possibility. It's certainly not an ideal move for scum, but as Renata points out atheotes seems to have been fishing for confirmation of self-protection and so may have overplayed his hand with the fake reveal before fully realizing the implications.

Don't treat it as lock-scum though.


For role actions tonight, I'm torn. On one hand, Choxorn, Renata, and myself are top priorities for protection, but even if all of us were protected there are yet more top townies to kill. I don't want people's protects to be exhausted, I don't want to be jailblock-protected (cuz I'm doing stuff), and yet allocating actions to avoid duplicated protections is similarly unproductive.

Altogether, my least-bad recommendation: if people among the top-townies have a bulletproof or invisibility, consider using it. Jailblocks and protects might better be saved for another day (though if you have Bodyguard, and you really want to take one for the team, I suppose that's a less valuable role to commit tonight). Regardless, a clear objective for tomorrow is to get as much info on the actions of Sooh and atheotes as possible. I will let slip that my action tonight will not involve either of the two. I'll reveal what my cast is just before day begins, in case I get killed; this would just be for completeness, since knowing my cast without knowing the result wouldn't help you much mechanically.

[Montmorency]

Complete reads list for N2:

Lock Town

Monty
Choxorn
Renata

High Town

Lewwyn - though Visor's vote on him is interesting, and he should start stepping up more
Zack
Winston

Lean Town

Arakhor - I forgot, but I'm sure it's sound
GH - if anyone has been set up for deep scum by his teammates, it's this guy

Null

Snerk - maybe it's not a good sign that he's still null; considered weak town by Visor

Scummy

Csargo - another weird and light-footed D2 performance; considered high town by Visor
Atheotes - could move down pending; considered top town by Visor
Sooh - could move up pending; considered weak town by Visor, who didn't self-pres onto her

[Montmorency]

Worst case, atheotes-Sooh was a red herring that Visor subtly encouraged through his actions.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Monty, you said earlier in the phase that we should talk during the night. Anything on your mind?

[Montmorency]

More mana more problems? Must be the slow hour.

[Montmorency]

Of the 2016 games I missed, you were mafia in 2, 3P in 1, cult in 1. Without at least reading the mafia-aligned games my meta of you is sorely skewed.

But sucks to 11th-hour studying, I didn't get to be a pre-eminent wizard of my time through diligence and careful labor.

[atheotes]

Monty....

so Sooh is claiming she protected Renata. chances are she is lying about it. my result is pretty conclusive based on the explanation of the spell.
But the qn of the missing night kill remains. I will look forward to the death write up for tonight.

[atheotes]

It is probably for the best to avoid reading Visor spew right now. He was going down and its all WIFOM.
We are in a good position and there is enough to help us find the remaining scum.
Now, what should i do tonight?

protect myself from any numbnuts who wants to engulf me in flames? or do some scum hunting even if i may not be alive to get the results? or be an angel to someone who is being mean to me?
Dying at the hands of a vig is of no use i think. hmm...decisions.

[Montmorency]

It is probably for the best to avoid reading Visor spew right now. He was going down and its all WIFOM.
We are in a good position and there is enough to help us find the remaining scum.
Now, what should i do tonight?

protect myself from any numbnuts who wants to engulf me in flames? or do some scum hunting even if i may not be alive to get the results? or be an angel to someone who is being mean to me?
Dying at the hands of a vig is of no use i think. hmm...decisions.

Why not track Sooh or something?

[atheotes]

Why not track Sooh or something?

that was my first thought. But if i am not going to be alive to get the results...
at this point, Sooh and myself have to be resolved. And i am not ready to sacrifice my life yet.

[Montmorency]

If Sooh is scum and you are town, why would she kill you of all the options?

[atheotes]

If Sooh is scum and you are town, why would she kill you of all the options?

Sooh? no. I said i might be targeted by vig spells.

[Snerk]

Do someone have a chart of the claims?

[Renata]

It is probably for the best to avoid reading Visor spew right now. He was going down and its all WIFOM.
We are in a good position and there is enough to help us find the remaining scum.
Now, what should i do tonight?

protect myself from any numbnuts who wants to engulf me in flames? or do some scum hunting even if i may not be alive to get the results? or be an angel to someone who is being mean to me?
Dying at the hands of a vig is of no use i think. hmm...decisions.

Protecting yourself is pretty much a scum claim. You're deep in the POE in a game with a comfortable lead for the town.

[Renata]

Do someone have a chart of the claims?

If you iso Monty you'll find one. I think it was made before Choxorn claimed the vig and before I claimed attempted JK on Monty, but everything else should be there.

[atheotes]

Protecting yourself is pretty much a scum claim. You're deep in the POE in a game with a comfortable lead for the town.

well, only one of us have to die to resolve this. from my pov either Sooh is lying or there are deeper shenanigans going on.
maybe i should just redirect actions on me to Sooh...yeah. thats it.
thanks for the suggestion.

[Renata]

Oh lord.

[Renata]

Feel like atheotes is laughing at the thread tbh not that Sooh's complete lack of doing anything is any better.

[Lewwyn]

Feel like atheotes is laughing at the thread tbh not that Sooh's complete lack of doing anything is any better.

atheotes is actually actively participating with a point of view. I'm really not reading it scummy. Sometimes you do just have to laugh.

[Renata]

I mean, Sooh and he has to be resolved, but he's talking about protecting himself?

[GeneralHankerchief]

Both have things working for and against them.

Just from thread presence, atheotes has more positives (stuff Choxorn mentioned) but also more negatives (weird interaction with Visor D1, etc).

I'm sympathetic towards Sooh's predicament because I recently played an offsite game where I spent the entirety of D1 in a fever haze much like her and ended up being on the defensive for the entire game, but at the same time she's got basically nothing to her name. It sucks if she's town but at the same time 90% of the players are more likely to be innocent and the numbers are what they are.

[atheotes]

Feel like atheotes is laughing at the thread tbh not that Sooh's complete lack of doing anything is any better.

nah...i am just trying to Sooh flipped so that i can be clear (hopefully)

I mean, Sooh and he has to be resolved, but he's talking about protecting himself?

How is it any different from a self pres vote? Consider the scenario where I am town and have been telling the truth. What would you do? take one for the team? no. It looks like we are in a good position. But it doesnt mean we have won. you saw what happened in the mash at MU. it is important for me to stay alive to do my bit to solve the game.

[atheotes]

Both have things working for and against them.

Just from thread presence, atheotes has more positives (stuff Choxorn mentioned) but also more negatives (weird interaction with Visor D1, etc).

I'm sympathetic towards Sooh's predicament because I recently played an offsite game where I spent the entirety of D1 in a fever haze much like her and ended up being on the defensive for the entire game, but at the same time she's got basically nothing to her name. It sucks if she's town but at the same time 90% of the players are more likely to be innocent and the numbers are what they are.

Please list the negatives that you are talking about. I am interested in the etc. part.

[atheotes]

I dont think any of the townsfolk have strong man. so i am going to save myself either by protecting myself or redirecting onto Sooh.
You can lynch me if you want, but i get to see the night results and voice my thoughts before i die.
good night and good luck.

[Renata]

Vigs are guaranteed to be town-motivated (not 100% clear in this game obviously, but in the case of shooting atheotes it's pretty damn certain). Lynches are not. That's the difference. Although in a case like this with three wolves dead, lots of probably-clear townies, and a manageable POE, even eating a lynch in your shoes wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.

Basically, town win is supposed to trump self-preservation and I'm not seeing that here.

[Arakhor]

Unless he's a third-party or a jester, the only reason to say something like that within the spirit of the game is to admit to being scum.

[Montmorency]

Wew lad, what a sinister string of posts

[Arakhor]

I thought it was normal for doctors not to be allowed to protect themselves. This also sounds a lot like Atheotes panicking, for some reason...