French Revolution Mafia [Concluded]

[Zack]

It's more a question of what I don't have for you.

In your 9 posts this game, you've spent five responding to questions or accusations about yourself, one making a comment on the writeup, one asking me why we shouldn't lynch people (opposed to asking why we should lynch people) and one saying there were a lot of votes on Renata, implying they weren't random, but none following up on that suspicion or pushing them or defending Renata.

I had my sights on Monstrdude because he made a post explaining how Manasi was town and it was probably v/v wagons anyways and doing absolutely nothing about it; not defending anyone being voted, not voting for or even commenting on the third place candidate (who was Jabbz, it should be noted) and there was still time left in the round. He was writing off Manasi for dead before she was buried.

Other people in this game tried to lynch a scumbag who was acting scummy, right or wrong. Others tried to defend people they thought were townies, right or wrong. Others made a difference.

What have you done for town lately?

I don't have mega-suspicion on you, how could I? You've not done anything. But that's the point.

Monstrdude didn't do anything either. That's why I shot him. I know he's capable of doing stuff. I'm sure you are too.

I figured something was wrong with monstr when he said something about not having any townreads and everyone was a wolf. In the org game where he was town, he actually voiced a problem of having too many townreads and he seemed to have a pretty easy time townreading people that were even found universally scummy.

[Zack]

I wonder what the bylaws are if I post in my own thread.

OH WAIT I CAN CHANGE THEM I'M THE MOD LOL

So this is how liberty dies.

[Dp101]

Hey guys, Sorry I've been violently ill since mid-day 1 so I haven't been able to play. I'm feeling much better now, trying to get caught up, but I still have to go back and read a bunch of Day 1 again too. Reading through Day 2 ATM.




This was in response to DP. Just want to chime in that I'm not seeing a ton of scum in DP's play and I'm very familiar with it. (Pegged him scum Day 1 last game.)

Glad to see that you are feeling better. Any other reads thus far?

[Montmorency]

I can tell you that Snerk expressed a desire in-QT to lynch Jabbz, a day before EOD. At the moment when it looked like Bsmith was more at risk of lynch, I announced that Jabbz would be a higher-priority rescue than BSmith. Snerk was annoyed at this, expressing his opinion that Jabbz was the scummiest player both in public and in private, and that my choice was hard to understand if coming from town.

Cut Snerk some slack, Jacques.

At this point in D2 I see the choice as between Arakhor and auto. Renata seems to be haranguing auto for his 2 posts because of the wording of the second.

He made it seem like the choice was just Manasi/Bsmithwhen it was actually Manasi/Bsmith/Montmorency/JABBZ.

Renata: 3 | Manasi (78), Snerk (89), ATPG (116)
BSmith: 3 | Fenn (131), Al Sipsclar (136), autolycus (287)
Manasi: 2 | NotACop (112), Arakhor (115)
Montmorency: 2 | Renata (271), Dp101 (272)
Jabbz: 2 | Lewwyn (233), seireikhaan (289)

I'm enjoying this version of Renata too much to want to see her exit so soon. I haven't gotten to play with Manasi before, so unvote, vote: Bsmith as a counterwagon!

Renata and Manasi mentioned as people not to vote, picks BSmith as victim. All in one sentence. Doesn't mention Jabbz. I can see it as being too front-loaded for a throwaway vote dropped before lurking the phase away.

I Vote: arakhor and approve of dayvig on auto.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I figured something was wrong with monstr when he said something about not having any townreads and everyone was a wolf. In the org game where he was town, he actually voiced a problem of having too many townreads and he seemed to have a pretty easy time townreading people that were even found universally scummy.

That's a good note.

But even if you struggle in a particular game to find town reads, what do you do with the ones you do get? His town read of me was just after I posted the explanation-free leans list. Later he gave Manasi a town lean but did daisy all to vote her counterwagons. After Jabbz flipped, I noted a possible reason why he didn't want to discuss or push the counterwagons was that he might have to give a more in-depth commentary about Jabbz and push Jabbz, instead of Manasi, his village lean. I just thought it was weird that he had seemingly not even acknowledged the existence of the third wagon. Those were the specifics, the basics that got me even thinking about it were something I thought at the start of night when I was giving everyone a preliminary once-over: I couldn't feel monstr's presence, therefore he must be scum. If he's town he's gonna be impossible to ignore, I'd imagine. This is to say, I think his town game could feel like a friendly bear hug, or a punch in the gut, but either way, you'll feel it.

I mentioned that if monstr somehow survived our shot, I'd be revealing the reasoning and pushing him all of day two, convinced he got his faction to protect a mafioso. It's pretty okay reasoning, but I'm glad I didn't necessarily have to go through the full democratic process on him. I'm sure if he knew he was under fire he'd put up a good defense. Sometimes a vig shot is the best solution.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I can tell you that Snerk expressed a desire in-QT to lynch Jabbz, a day before EOD. At the moment when it looked like Bsmith was more at risk of lynch, I announced that Jabbz would be a higher-priority rescue than BSmith. Snerk was annoyed at this, expressing his opinion that Jabbz was the scummiest player both in public and in private, and that my choice was hard to understand if coming from town.

Cut Snerk some slack, Jacques.

Ok. This is persuasive, so I'll move off of Snerk.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I'll go with Lewwyn's and other's reads on dp for now. I wanted it looked at and it was.

Pump up the pressure on Arakhor, and no objection to an autolycus dayvig based on that.

Unvote, vote: Arakhor

[Choxorn]

I can tell you that Snerk expressed a desire in-QT to lynch Jabbz, a day before EOD. At the moment when it looked like Bsmith was more at risk of lynch, I announced that Jabbz would be a higher-priority rescue than BSmith. Snerk was annoyed at this, expressing his opinion that Jabbz was the scummiest player both in public and in private, and that my choice was hard to understand if coming from town.

Cut Snerk some slack, Jacques.

Hmm. Does anyone else in your faction have anything to say about who wanted who dead or saved yesterday?

And, I'm going to have to ask- if you preferred to save your faction mates (or well, have your other faction mates do the saving), why did you keep your vote on dp101 and not have anything to say publicly about any of the leading wagons at EoD yesterday?

[Arakhor]

Pump up the pressure on Arakhor, and no objection to an autolycus dayvig based on that.

Funnily enough, you're not "upping the pressure", you're trying to kill me.

[Arakhor]

As it happens, ATPG, I remember the game in which you (as a scum) started the QT entitled something like, "Infiltrated right from the start" and spent much of your time leading the town to defeat with a successful scum victory. As such, I'm sure you can excuse me if I take a dim view of you issuing contextless orders such as peremptory commands not to vote for someone.

[Montmorency]

Hmm. Does anyone else in your faction have anything to say about who wanted who dead or saved yesterday?

And, I'm going to have to ask- if you preferred to save your faction mates (or well, have your other faction mates do the saving), why did you keep your vote on dp101 and not have anything to say publicly about any of the leading wagons at EoD yesterday?

I was waiting for a better option. Recall how I nudged Renata to commit to a counterwagon. I would have gone with Csargo, but by 2 hours before EOD perhaps only an Arakhor CFD would have been possible, had I pushed hard. Also, I was hoping that my faction would show up in force (they didn't) to vote DP or Renata.

[Renata]

I have some spew from our QT to report on Monstr. Trying to avoid paraphrasing too much.

He himself brought up the idea of potential bussing on Jabbz.

He offered some lame reason for us not to vig on Manasi's wagon.

He seemed more than willing to see El Barto or Snerk dead.

[Renata]

I am fairly confident our faction is now free of Royalist scum.

Also, would be nice if someone from Kagemusha's faction would play ball and report on what he thought about life, the universe and everything. You lot are sticking out right now.

[Montmorency]

DAILY TIP ON REVOLUTIONARY PRAXIS

Root out and straighten up the vacillators and hommes doubles among you. Failure to do so bespeaks and encourages moral corruption, which far-gone can only be cured by excision of the troublesome element from society.

Vive la Convention nationale!
Vive la France!
Vive la révolution!

[Askthepizzaguy]

I am fairly confident our faction is now free of Royalist scum.

Also, would be nice if someone from Kagemusha's faction would play ball and report on what he thought about life, the universe and everything. You lot are sticking out right now.

Yep, let me scan all his content real quick.

The rules on paraphrasing suggest I need to be very brief and generic here, so I've cleaned it up, especially anything that wasn't said by me. Stuff that isn't a generic paraphrase will be in italics, a comment after the fact by me.

Kage said hello to everyone in the faction by name.

Kage began talking about night actions.

Kage agreed with my suggestion that I direct actions on n1.

End of Day one, he complimented me on lynching Jabbz and said he would analyze the Jabbz wagon.

(no conclusions ever came)

I asked about people being available near deadline to submit an order, and Kage volunteered.

Al Sipsclar directly accused Kagemusha for voting late on BSmith and seemingly saving Jabbz.

Kagemusha acknowledged the suspicion, and said he didn't trust anyone but me.

I arrive just before deadline, announcing that I am ready to submit orders. Kage gives me no direction as to what to do.

There's little discussion among the group as to what should be done, so I'm anticipating that the scum team believes I will conserve our actions as I had been advocating all round. I had up until that time been shooting down suggestions to do more than one action at a time, wanting to have as many actions as possible for later on.

I was also pretty suspicious that our actions would be countered. I didn't want to make our actions obvious, announced in advance, or easily avoidable. I made the decision to use three actions. I posted them with no time left for the royalists to counter them, to catch them by surprise.

At the last minute I posted the actions with reasons.

I named Kagemusha in the analysis, among all the other names I mentioned, acknowledging Al's reasoning. I was neutral on the subject.

(To me, his vote could have been just an active townie trying to make a decision between Manasi and BSmith, using the reasoning that Jabbz was listed third in the vote count as a possible reason why he wasn't named. Obviously that's wrong in retrospect.)

I assigned Al to kill Monstrdude. I was hoping that particular choice would be unpredictable, so the vig wouldn't be anticipated, and even if it was, it wouldn't be blocked by a roleblocker, only protected by some other faction.

I named Kagemusha as the one to protect me, because I figured there would be a chance some action would be taken against me that night. I wanted to live to tell about it.

I used a watch on Al, who had been trending up for me anyway.

After the night actions went through, I came to the solid conclusion that Al was good. He's the only one in our group to have vocally suspected Kage, at the time I was discussing whether or not to vig. He didn't specifically say to vig Kage, but that's a dangerous time to mention a name like that.

After the night actions went through, I noted Al's objections to Kagemusha and named him almost lock town.

End of paraphrasing.

That's as much information as I think I can give, based on a strict interpretation of the rules. We're in a good position and I don't want to give away a free modkill over this, and it's important to be good sports.

Of my faction, it should be pretty obvious to everyone that myself and Al Sipsclar should be left alone. I'd ask that those names in particular be left alone. Any other names will have to make their townie-ness clear on their own merits, just like everyone in the game.

As an aside, I don't have a specific reason to suspect anyone else in my group. No one else made votes which negatively impacted Manasi or BSmith's position, made literally any arguments in favor of any of the dead scums, or tried to make any suggestions, really. There's a really good chance our faction is clean.

That said, if votes land on those other people with good or even fair reasoning, I'm making no effort to save them. I'm still putting the scum hunt ahead of factional concerns. As it stands, with 4 factions still containing most of their members, no one faction is in danger of imminently winning that way. Any one faction is very much outnumbered by the others, and every faction has lost either 1 or 2 members, keeping us roughly equal. I've also been fairly open about names and such even to our detriment, and my actions thus far have been focused on keeping all town-faction people alive that I think are town, and focusing lynches and vig actions only on people I think are Royalists. If there's a member of my house you actually suspect, you have my word that if I don't have them as a solid townie with reasons that can pass mustard, I'm not voting in a factionally-motivated way to spare their life and sacrifice someone else. I've given away half the names in my house and it should be easy to solve for the rest at this point, though I haven't really made an effort to solve for that. Every faction has named some names and made some connections.

I think that openness in particular is the reason why this town is doing so well, in my view. Whether I agree with the analysis of my compatriots or not from other factions, I am largely trusting their motivations and testimony. My issues with Snerk in particular were largely based on what, looked from my perspective, to be factionally-motivated behavior that could also be used to cover for scum activities. I trust the reasons given by his faction mates, and their testimony that he was in private actively pushing for Jabbz to die and not singularly focused on faction stuff, in fact pushed into that. That washes away the root of my suspicion.

Let's keep it up. Even one Royalist remaining is still a danger to everyone's win condition, as even one can act like a serial killer that's infiltrated a town network. You have essentially zero control over your win condition until that threat is eliminated. We can cooperate to eliminate that threat as long as we treat the lives in every faction as equal in value, assuming they're not suspected to be a Royalist. I think most of us are on that same page.

If it ever stops being that way, I'd still try to wreck the remaining Royalist for fun and light side jedi points. Not to mention, if there's any way the Royalist team can win in this position, it will be because the factions decided it was safe to tear one another apart. Nothing helps a dictator like a divided populace.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Scanning the previous post, I should mention that although Kage stayed till near deadline, I never had him submit an action, since it's allowed that one person speaks on behalf of the entire faction, a concept I hadn't understood to start with.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Ugh clarifying.

I submitted an action for him, but he didn't have to type anything.

The particulars of this game's mechanics are a bit confusing in wording.

[Askthepizzaguy]

He seemed more than willing to see El Barto or Snerk dead.

I'm thinking this part is genuine. El Barto hasn't cleared himself by his own merits, but it's looking pretty good that he's not a royalist anyway.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Timer Test 1


Timer Test 2

[GeneralHankerchief]

Host note:

Due to DST, the timer for Day 2 has been altered. As I am now in EDT as opposed to EST, it is possible that the phase will end an hour earlier than some of you were expecting it to.

Post 2 of this thread and all tallies going forth will carry the updated timer. The Night 1 writeup and previous tallies will NOT.

-edit- GMT-4 as opposed to GMT-5 for those so inclined.

[Montmorency]

I think that openness in particular is the reason why this town is doing so well, in my view. Whether I agree with the analysis of my compatriots or not from other factions, I am largely trusting their motivations and testimony. My issues with Snerk in particular were largely based on what, looked from my perspective, to be factionally-motivated behavior that could also be used to cover for scum activities. I trust the reasons given by his faction mates, and their testimony that he was in private actively pushing for Jabbz to die and not singularly focused on faction stuff, in fact pushed into that. That washes away the root of my suspicion.

Let's keep it up. Even one Royalist remaining is still a danger to everyone's win condition, as even one can act like a serial killer that's infiltrated a town network. You have essentially zero control over your win condition until that threat is eliminated. We can cooperate to eliminate that threat as long as we treat the lives in every faction as equal in value, assuming they're not suspected to be a Royalist. I think most of us are on that same page.

If it ever stops being that way, I'd still try to wreck the remaining Royalist for fun and light side jedi points. Not to mention, if there's any way the Royalist team can win in this position, it will be because the factions decided it was safe to tear one another apart. Nothing helps a dictator like a divided populace.

Now that there's less to talk about, we can indulge in a little bit of drunkenness and lolposting.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I'm hoping to see a lot more activity from the non-clear kind of peoples before round ends. There was a lot directed at me that I felt I really should respond to, but honestly, the rest of the game solve goes a lot more smoothly if the very townie looking people don't dominate the conversation. It's the only way to get more info on everyone else without simply killing them all one by one, a slow and demoralizing process that is likely to miss a lot.

[Csargo]

I can tell you that Snerk expressed a desire in-QT to lynch Jabbz, a day before EOD. At the moment when it looked like Bsmith was more at risk of lynch, I announced that Jabbz would be a higher-priority rescue than BSmith. Snerk was annoyed at this, expressing his opinion that Jabbz was the scummiest player both in public and in private, and that my choice was hard to understand if coming from town.

Cut Snerk some slack, Jacques.

At this point in D2 I see the choice as between Arakhor and auto. Renata seems to be haranguing auto for his 2 posts because of the wording of the second.

He made it seem like the choice was just Manasi/Bsmithwhen it was actually Manasi/Bsmith/Montmorency/JABBZ.

Renata: 3 | Manasi (78), Snerk (89), ATPG (116)
BSmith: 3 | Fenn (131), Al Sipsclar (136), autolycus (287)
Manasi: 2 | NotACop (112), Arakhor (115)
Montmorency: 2 | Renata (271), Dp101 (272)
Jabbz: 2 | Lewwyn (233), seireikhaan (289)





Renata and Manasi mentioned as people not to vote, picks BSmith as victim. All in one sentence. Doesn't mention Jabbz. I can see it as being too front-loaded for a throwaway vote dropped before lurking the phase away.

I Vote: arakhor and approve of dayvig on auto.

Alright, I thought Snerk's replies were pretty good anyways.

Unvote, Vote: Autolycus

[autolycus]

Sorry I was away for the first half of this day. The other populists can confirm that I said I was going to be away for the latter half of the night, and that carried over to the first half of the day.

He made it seem like the choice was just Manasi/Bsmithwhen it was actually Manasi/Bsmith/Montmorency/JABBZ.
Renata: 3 | Manasi (78), Snerk (89), ATPG (116)
BSmith: 3 | Fenn (131), Al Sipsclar (136), autolycus (287)
Manasi: 2 | NotACop (112), Arakhor (115)
Montmorency: 2 | Renata (271), Dp101 (272)
Jabbz: 2 | Lewwyn (233), seireikhaan (289)
Renata and Manasi mentioned as people not to vote, picks BSmith as victim. All in one sentence. Doesn't mention Jabbz. I can see it as being too front-loaded for a throwaway vote dropped before lurking the phase away.

If you look at the order of the votes, you'll see that the second vote on Jabbz happenedafter I voted for BSmith, so he wasn't on my radar at the time. I didn't vote for Montmorency, because especially on day 1, a bunch of votes in quick succession can go from pressure to bandwagon in no time flat. He and Renata are welcome to think my rationale for counterwagoning away from Renata was bogus, but it was the truth. Renata playing an extra out there style of play was interesting to me.

In terms of my suspicions, Arakhor is part of my faction. He does seem more faction-focused than scum-hunting, but I won't pile on there yet. If there's a populist scum, he would be my pick. Both NotACop and atheotes need to wake up. Of the people who are actually talking, I'm actually probably most suspicious of vote: Montmorency. The defense of Snerk is persuasive, but it begs the question, "Why was Jabbz the higher priority save?". Also, missing the order of vote is not a mistake I would expect from Montmorency.

[Manasi]

Slight derp clear but Royalists know the whole Royalist team right?

Don't clear me for this thanks.

[Manasi]

Sorry I was away for the first half of this day. The other populists can confirm that I said I was going to be away for the latter half of the night, and that carried over to the first half of the day.



If you look at the order of the votes, you'll see that the second vote on Jabbz happenedafter I voted for BSmith, so he wasn't on my radar at the time. I didn't vote for Montmorency, because especially on day 1, a bunch of votes in quick succession can go from pressure to bandwagon in no time flat. He and Renata are welcome to think my rationale for counterwagoning away from Renata was bogus, but it was the truth. Renata playing an extra out there style of play was interesting to me.

In terms of my suspicions, Arakhor is part of my faction. He does seem more faction-focused than scum-hunting, but I won't pile on there yet. If there's a populist scum, he would be my pick. Both NotACop and atheotes need to wake up. Of the people who are actually talking, I'm actually probably most suspicious of vote: Montmorency. The defense of Snerk is persuasive, but it begs the question, "Why was Jabbz the higher priority save?". Also, missing the order of vote is not a mistake I would expect from Montmorency.

If my above post is true, then Jabbz was I suppose a higher priority save just due to the fact that he was scum, right? Maybe I'm missing your point, but other scum would be a lot more pressured to save their teammate than a random villager.

That being said, I don't really think Montmorency is scum but to each their own.

[Manasi]

Also lol'd at the vote on Autolycus and then him just popping back into the thread immediately as if he was summoned by it.

[Montmorency]

Sorry I was away for the first half of this day. The other populists can confirm that I said I was going to be away for the latter half of the night, and that carried over to the first half of the day.



If you look at the order of the votes, you'll see that the second vote on Jabbz happenedafter I voted for BSmith, so he wasn't on my radar at the time. I didn't vote for Montmorency, because especially on day 1, a bunch of votes in quick succession can go from pressure to bandwagon in no time flat. He and Renata are welcome to think my rationale for counterwagoning away from Renata was bogus, but it was the truth. Renata playing an extra out there style of play was interesting to me.

In terms of my suspicions, Arakhor is part of my faction. He does seem more faction-focused than scum-hunting, but I won't pile on there yet. If there's a populist scum, he would be my pick. Both NotACop and atheotes need to wake up. Of the people who are actually talking, I'm actually probably most suspicious of vote: Montmorency. The defense of Snerk is persuasive, but it begs the question, "Why was Jabbz the higher priority save?". Also, missing the order of vote is not a mistake I would expect from Montmorency.

Fair enough.

For yesterday's wagons - we all know each other's memberships by now anyway - we had more control over Jabbz', because as EOD got underway 2 of the 3 votes on Jabbz were from our faction - and Zack is not in my faction. That BSmith's wagon looked to have more momentum just added to the weight.

Slight derp clear but Royalists know the whole Royalist team right?

Don't clear me for this thanks.

Huh?

[Csargo]

Wait, what? So half of your faction thought Jabbz was suspicious enough to vote him(if we count Snerk), and you still wanted to save him? That is what you're saying right? Or am I misunderstanding something?

[Manasi]

Likeeeeeeeeeee.

Royalists know who the other Royalists are, not necessarily what faction they're slipped into, but like.

At least the players?

Fuckin idk nevermind.