Ken Livingstone - blaming the Jewish Chronicle

Although the ridiculous thing is that while his original comments were not in the best taste, they weren't entirely inaccurate. The Nazis did support zionism. The historical record is clear.

Originally Posted by Idaho

Although the ridiculous thing is that while his original comments were not in the best taste, they weren't entirely inaccurate. The Nazis did support zionism. The historical record is clear.

In the sense that they could use Zion as a "Botany Bay" of sorts, yes, but that's not really a rainbows and sunshine thing.

Originally Posted by Idaho

Although the ridiculous thing is that while his original comments were not in the best taste, they weren't entirely inaccurate. The Nazis did support zionism. The historical record is clear.

In the sense that they would let Jews leave, yes, but largely without their assets or personal possessions.

It's not really "supporting" Zionism.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7009981.html

"Under the agreement Jewish emigrants had to hand over their possessions before they left Germany, and the proceeds were used by a company specifically set up for this purpose in Tel Aviv to purchase German goods for sale in Palestine. The proceeds of these sales were then paid in Palestinian currency to the emigrants in Palestine."

You'll note the huge opportunity for graft on the part of the Nazi's.

Anyway - this isn't going away:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ionism-remarks

Corbyn has been forced to launch ANOTHER Inquiry because Livingstone can't shut up about the Jewish conspiracy against him, which at the same time saying he wants Ken to "help Labour win elections."

Originally Posted by Philippus Flavius Homovallumus

In the sense that they would let Jews leave, yes, but largely without their assets or personal possessions.

It's not really "supporting" Zionism.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7009981.html

"Under the agreement Jewish emigrants had to hand over their possessions before they left Germany, and the proceeds were used by a company specifically set up for this purpose in Tel Aviv to purchase German goods for sale in Palestine. The proceeds of these sales were then paid in Palestinian currency to the emigrants in Palestine."

You'll note the huge opportunity for graft on the part of the Nazi's.

Anyway - this isn't going away:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ionism-remarks

Corbyn has been forced to launch ANOTHER Inquiry because Livingstone can't shut up about the Jewish conspiracy against him, which at the same time saying he wants Ken to "help Labour win elections."

Corbyn doesn't like leaving his old friends in the lurch. Hence supporting his old campaigning mate against a fellow Labour (and Jewish) MP when the former made the usual media conspiracy remarks to said Labour MP at the launch of the Labour party report on anti-semitism, a report that identified that kind of remark as typical of anti-semitism on the British left. When Corbyn has to choose between his old friends on the far left and Labour MPs elected by the British people, he will back his friends every time.

I genuinely believe Ken Livingstone has dementia. That's not just abuse, I think he does.

Originally Posted by Pannonian

Corbyn doesn't like leaving his old friends in the lurch. Hence supporting his old campaigning mate against a fellow Labour (and Jewish) MP when the former made the usual media conspiracy remarks to said Labour MP at the launch of the Labour party report on anti-semitism, a report that identified that kind of remark as typical of anti-semitism on the British left. When Corbyn has to choose between his old friends on the far left and Labour MPs elected by the British people, he will back his friends every time.

He's always been odious though - so he reflects badly on Corbyn, whether he's a "good Socialist" or not.

Originally Posted by Elmetiacos

I genuinely believe Ken Livingstone has dementia. That's not just abuse, I think he does.

See above-whilst you may well be right I would argue he alway s held these views, he's been coming out with stuff like this for years.

In WW1, the Germans let Lenin travel back to Russia. Did they like Lenin? Or would they help an individual who had vowed to overthrow their country to do even more damage to a foe?

In British Palestine, the British were dealing with terrorists fighting to have land returned to them from a few thousand years ago.

Would Nazi Germany be quite happy to get rid of a problem and at the same time distract a major power with a larger problem? Probably - and let's not forget a few years later the USSR / UK and USA were all on the same side. Did we all suddenly love Commies - or did we need them and they need us?

Ken does seem to have a problem with Jews. I have no insight why. But that doesn't automatically mean that everything he says is wrong, no if right in the best taste.

There appears to be a desire that history is simple with bits that don't fit the narrative airbrushed out.

Originally Posted by rory_20_uk

In WW1, the Germans let Lenin travel back to Russia. Did they like Lenin? Or would they help an individual who had vowed to overthrow their country to do even more damage to a foe?

In British Palestine, the British were dealing with terrorists fighting to have land returned to them from a few thousand years ago.

Would Nazi Germany be quite happy to get rid of a problem and at the same time distract a major power with a larger problem? Probably - and let's not forget a few years later the USSR / UK and USA were all on the same side. Did we all suddenly love Commies - or did we need them and they need us?

Ken does seem to have a problem with Jews. I have no insight why. But that doesn't automatically mean that everything he says is wrong, no if right in the best taste.

There appears to be a desire that history is simple with bits that don't fit the narrative airbrushed out.

What Ken said was that Hitler "supported Zionism before he went mad". The implication is that there was once a sane, reasonable, Hitler. In fact, the truth is that Hitler was happy to export his "Jewish problem" so long as the Jews left all their money behind, just as he was perfectly happy to kill them.

Ken Livingstone is trying to argue that Hitler's thinking on Jews developed and hardened when in fact there's evidence he despised them even during WWI and considered them sub-Human. Hitler was never "reasonable" about Jews, the fact that he didn't always try to exterminate them just illustrates he wasn't principled in his hatred - it was essentially visceral.