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Thread: EXIT NEGOTIATIONS

  1. #2071
    The Red-titled Forum Administrator Beskar's Avatar
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    Default Re: EXIT NEGOTIATIONS

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46586673

    May says doing a final referendum on the choices before us would say to the people democracy doesn't work. I would argue that it shows it does work, by giving people the say on the matter instead of the failed politics which have been at play. Leave will face the scrutiny and accountability behind the agenda. All those people who voted for buses and 'soft brexit', Norway model, etc, will most likely go with the remain-within-EU camp given the other choice is the May Deal and Hard Brexit.

    Also the responsibility of what happens is transferred to the people so something gets done, whatever the outcome, instead of the constant ankle biting.
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  2. #2072
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: EXIT NEGOTIATIONS

    May the force be with you. I admire her, she was never a supporter of a brexit herself, that is ok, never deny a mind.of your own people will always disagree. She is brave. At this point there should be a second chance though. Remainers do not understand that everything will be fine, and that is what worries eurocrats the most, doing Just fine. Do you want anders enhanced version of an Orwellian dystopia, vote for it but don't call me
    Last edited by Fragony; Yesterday at 08:10.

  3. #2073
    BrownWings: AirViceMarshall Member Furunculus's Avatar
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    Default Re: EXIT NEGOTIATIONS

    i don't really care about a sec ref one way or another, as long as the question is usefully representative of the dilemma faced.

    i do think it will reflect badly on parliament if they prove unable to deal with the policy around the decision that was given to them at their request in 2016.

    fair warning: anyone who thinks public discourse has been ugly up until now will get a surprise if a sec ref narrowly overturns the first result.
    Furunculus Maneuver: Adopt a highly logical position on a controversial subject where you cannot disagree with the merits of the proposal, only disagree with an opinion based on fundamental values. - Beskar

  4. #2074
    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
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    Default Re: EXIT NEGOTIATIONS

    Quote Originally Posted by Furunculus View Post
    i don't really care about a sec ref one way or another, as long as the question is usefully representative of the dilemma faced.

    i do think it will reflect badly on parliament if they prove unable to deal with the policy around the decision that was given to them at their request in 2016.

    fair warning: anyone who thinks public discourse has been ugly up until now will get a surprise if a sec ref narrowly overturns the first result.
    "In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way."

    Nigel Farage, 17th May 2016

  5. #2075
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, Cub Shoot 2 Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Treasure Diver Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Slack Man Champion, Japanese Baseball Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Super Mario Mushroom Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Fish Kill Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, KF 9000 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: EXIT NEGOTIATIONS

    A second referendum would be a great expression of democratic orientation in decision making. It would also be a total cop-out by government, since the goal of government representatives is to balance the will of the people with the best interests of the people and pass laws and resolutions that embody that. Else, why have a legislature? Hold annual referenda covering questions of governance and let ministries manage it.

    The Lords could continue as before, since signing in and then taking a bit of a kip doesn't get in the way overmuch.
    "The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman

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  6. #2076
    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
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    Default Re: EXIT NEGOTIATIONS

    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh View Post
    A second referendum would be a great expression of democratic orientation in decision making. It would also be a total cop-out by government, since the goal of government representatives is to balance the will of the people with the best interests of the people and pass laws and resolutions that embody that. Else, why have a legislature? Hold annual referenda covering questions of governance and let ministries manage it.

    The Lords could continue as before, since signing in and then taking a bit of a kip doesn't get in the way overmuch.
    "Will of the people" - Jeremy Corbyn.
    "I think we've had enough of experts" - Michael Gove.
    "Enemies of the people" - Daily Mail.

    Three indicators and drivers of said cop out. All arguments for good government founder when matched against the above. The "will of the people" of the people must be carried out, and anyone standing in the way are "enemies of the people". And all reasoned arguments are dismissed because "I think we've had enough of experts". Such is Brexit. And as Furunculus threatens, if Brexit doesn't happen, things will turn ugly, presumably due to Leavers.

  7. #2077
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: EXIT NEGOTIATIONS

    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh View Post
    A second referendum would be a great expression of democratic orientation in decision making. It would also be a total cop-out by government, since the goal of government representatives is to balance the will of the people with the best interests of the people and pass laws and resolutions that embody that. Else, why have a legislature? Hold annual referenda covering questions of governance and let ministries manage it.

    The Lords could continue as before, since signing in and then taking a bit of a kip doesn't get in the way overmuch.
    Agreed, brexiteers should get a second chance, nobody should deny them that. Just fair play as things have gotten more complicated. I hope the answer will be the same, but if it isn't I really should stfu and watch things roll out. Your choice I will just have respect it. But do remainers have everything succombing

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