Turkish Democracy - on the brink

**Philippus Flavius Homovallumus** · 07-26-2017, 02:56

*Attaches chain, drags thread back on topic.*

If you want to debate the virtues of Socialist Apologists start your own threads.

Turkey, last I heard they were seizing Chalcedeen Churches to turn into Mosques.

I think we can downgrade Turkey from "slippery slope" to "Despotic Fascist State."

It's 26/07/2017 and the President of Turkey might just be a bigger Fascist than Putin.

**LeftEyeNine** · 07-26-2017, 10:22

Originally Posted by Philippus Flavius Homovallumus

*Attaches chain, drags thread back on topic.*

If you want to debate the virtues of Socialist Apologists start your own threads.

Turkey, last I heard they were seizing Chalcedeen Churches to turn into Mosques.

I think we can downgrade Turkey from "slippery slope" to "Despotic Fascist State."

It's 26/07/2017 and the President of Turkey might just be a bigger Fascist than Putin.

Oh well, the thing is, Putin is actually an educated and smart guy, while being all the despot he is, ruthless against opposition, he actually can strengthen his own country. (No, I do not vote for such a figure, no matter what)

Erdogan, on the other hand, is more like Mussolini, some uneducated ad mythomaniac idiot watching himself in a magnifying mirror of whom actions did no less than destabilizing its economy, wasting 15 years on construction sector only, piling up his own riches, making cocky statements against USA/Russia/EU/whomever to be used for his "world leader" image in the country, eventually backtracking every single time.

Serious state-wide power, not some paper-tiger level like Turkey's been turned into, would be ultimately dangerous in his hands, far worse you could imagine than Putin could ever be. He's actually Abou Kim Jong-ûl Un of which country's geopolitical position is far too entangled with others to be ignored - that works both for and against him.

**Seamus Fermanagh** · 07-26-2017, 13:29

It is sad when the discussion drops down to the QUALITY of the fascism involved...I am sad for Turkey.

**Fragony** · 07-26-2017, 13:55

Originally Posted by LeftEyeNine

Oh well, the thing is, Putin is actually an educated and smart guy, while being all the despot he is, ruthless against opposition, he actually can strengthen his own country. (No, I do not vote for such a figure, no matter what)

Erdogan, on the other hand, is more like Mussolini, some uneducated ad mythomaniac idiot watching himself in a magnifying mirror of whom actions did no less than destabilizing its economy, wasting 15 years on construction sector only, piling up his own riches, making cocky statements against USA/Russia/EU/whomever to be used for his "world leader" image in the country, eventually backtracking every single time.

Serious state-wide power, not some paper-tiger level like Turkey's been turned into, would be ultimately dangerous in his hands, far worse you could imagine than Putin could ever be. He's actually Abou Kim Jong-ûl Un of whom country's geopolitical position is far too entangled with others to be ignored - that works both for and against him.

Be carefull effendi, what you say doesn't go unnoticed, before you know it you will be a Gülen-supporter. Be more carefull please, I would be really sad if you meet 'your countrymen'

**LeftEyeNine** · 07-26-2017, 14:16

Originally Posted by Fragony

Be carefull effendi, what you say doesn't go unnoticed, before you know it you will be a Gülen-supporter. Be more carefull please, I would be really sad if you meet 'your countrymen'

LÖL, this excruciatingly brings Ahmet Şık, the journalist, into my mind.

The guy was one of the first journalists to have mentioned some kind of "deep state" that "schemes and shapes governing of Turkey via very unconventional methods", the Ergenekon organization.

To his demise, having such a bold history of journalism, he was apprehended by Fethullah Gülen-apostle police force, because of his then-yet-to-be-published book titled "İmamın Ordusu" (Army of the Imam) which explored FETÖ epidemic within the government and security forces of Turkey, hilariously alleged of being an "Ergenekon Terrorist Organization member" this time.

He is such a solid character that, following his release after abolishment of most of FETÖ within policemen and other government institutions, because of openly and heavily criticizing AKP government, he has been jailed again due to "supporting FETÖ" apparently to form a ridiculous cycle of allegations.

Briefly, Ahmet Şık mentioned Ergenekon for the first time, got jailed by FETÖ accused of being Ergenekon member, and then got jailed by AKP regime accused of symphatizing FETÖ.

Ahmet Şık, alone, is the embodiment of 15 years of history of Turkey, if not reaching longer back.

@Seamus Fermanagh

**Gilrandir** · 07-26-2017, 14:20

Originally Posted by Fragony

Be carefull effendi,

Be careful yourself. What if he is not effendi, but pasha?

**Fragony** · 07-26-2017, 14:55

I thought 'effendi' was just 'wise man', I never looked any further I took it for a politeness-form. i didn't know it was a loaded term

**LeftEyeNine** · 07-26-2017, 15:14

Originally Posted by Fragony

I thought 'effendi' was just 'wise man', I never looked any further I took it for a politeness-form. i didn't know it was a loaded term

Literally means "gentleman/sir" in modern times, no probs with using it, definitely none with me.

**LeftEyeNine** · 07-26-2017, 16:07

By the way, tragic coincidence that Ahmet Şık's trial was today.

He has finished yet again a manifesto-esque defense on his part and the courtroom was deafening with applauses as he finished it.

You can find the transcript of his defense in English below. It is also instrumental on clarifying why he is such an automatical target for tyrannies and on getting insights into the last 15 years of Turkey, FETÖ, AKP and RTE.

Click: https://ecpmf.eu/get-help/fact-findi...he-journalists