UK General Election 2017

[Beskar]

Looks like it is going to go down again. Theresa May is throwing down the gauntlet, and if it passes parliament, we are onboard for a general election. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-39628713

Let's start debating who has the best policies, the best outcome for the country and the political gains and losses foreseen.

[Greyblades]

Labour is dead, SNP corraled, UKIP irrelevant, Lib dem shackled to a lost cause.

Without a split the Conservative victory is guaranteed. With the opposition as they are; it's hard to say they shouldnt win.

[Beskar]

I think the snap election is due to current investigation where Election Expenses Fraud is looking to result in the need of 23 narrow-margin Conservative seats to be re-elected.

A new general election with the government on the offensive would give a far better result than being on the defensive in by-elections as a result of election fraud and losing their majority.

[Strike For The South]

ABSOLUTE MADMAN

[Crandar]

Voted for Corbyn, in the sense that he's slightly, slightly closer to my beliefs than the rest of the circus.
Like in the rest of W. Europe, there is no equivalent to CPG, the party I vote in Greece.

At least, Corbyn seems to like Hezbollah and Syria.

EDIT: What's up with that Paul Nuttall guy? Is he more or less charismatic than his populist predecessor?

[Beskar]

EDIT: What's up with that Paul Nuttall guy? Is he more or less charismatic than his populist predecessor?

Less charismatic and known for his Paul Nuttall facts, such as being present at the Moon Landings. He invents things about his background to try to influence the electorate and got caught up big time with Hillsborough.

UKIP as a party is pretty dead. The voters will probably move Conservative if Brexit is still their key issue.

[Fragony]

Going to be interesting. Off course UKIP is dead they were a single issue party and they succeeded gloriously at what they wanted, Theresa May might, she is a very sensible person I think, she never wanted a Brexit but listens.

[Beskar]

There are three predicted outcomes.

De facto one-party state by the Conservative party. (Overwhelming Victory)
Conservative Majority (Victory)
Conservative Minority (Pyrrhic Victory)

Significantly less likely:
Coalition Government (/w Conservatives)
Coalition Goverment (/wo Conservatives)
Labour Minority.
Labour & SNP Majority.

[Greyblades]

Personally I want a split, none of the other parties represent my interests and with the conservative whole I have to take thier good with thier bad.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

I'm guessing their is no chance of a Sinn Fein majority?

[Beskar]

I find this to be a handy guide when it comes to deciding if you should be voting Conservative or not.

[Elmetiacos]

Clearly it's Erdoğan's victory in the rigged election to become Führer that's inspired this unabashed power grab.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

I am willing to bet against Erdogan winning a seat in England's parliament.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

I find this to be a handy guide when it comes to deciding if you should be voting Conservative or not.

Oh that's not in-appropriate at all.

I'm torn.

Tim Farron is a Div, if Clegg was still in charge I'd go Lib Dem but he's not.

I pine for the Liberal Party.

[Furunculus]

How much has Scotland to do with it? Not much. It will certainly be handy if it ends up SNP 48 (<11), Labour 8 (>7), Lib-Dems 3 (>2), Tory 1 (NC), when brexit finalises and talk of indyref 2.0 comes aroun.

Mainly it is about securing May a mandate to negotiate brexit, not subject to the tory nutters and the remain nutters.
The biggest threat a decent brexit (soft), is the chaos in the british political system as it pulls the gov't one way or another. The eu will prefer it too, having a stable negotiating party on the other side of the table. It also gives May the political capital she'll need to spend in order to make compromises.

Does "soft" mean EEA/Efta? No, that is the Remain mistake in seeking easy answers, just as the tory nutters want a 'clean break', because it's simple. It isn't a simple problem, and it will require clear heads and good will to get it right. Soft brexit means strong an enduring links to the EU post brexit, not EEA/Efta per-se. But that doesn't mean being a rule taker (in the vernancular of the debate), under the judicial activism of the ECJ. It means sectoral jurisdiction and equivalence in regulatory regimes.

The final point is that it will persuade the numerous EU parties (commision/council/parliament/national-gov't) that brexit is happening, and so persuade them them to look for the best deal. As long as half the stakeholders think britain can be brought round with some tough talk, they have little incentive to bargain honestly. Not just chaos on the british side, but the EU side too. A 100 seat majority won on the letter she sent to tusk last month will quieten the lunatics on both sides.

The quiet threat that doing us over will lead to singapore-on-steroids, is useful. Not to be made again publicly, but clearly understood. We saw exactly how fruitful cameron's renegotiation was when he started it with a promise to campaign for in:
C - So, we'd like a new deal, what can we do?
E - Well.... you can have this.
C - That's not very good, we can do better than that, surely!
E - Why do we care? You're campaigning to stay in, why would we make it more attractive for you to stay out?
C - Oh. :(
Pretty sure that's not in trump's book: The Art of the Deal! :D
So, hardball this time. With a smile.
And the result will almost certainly be a softer brexit than might otherwise be the case.
Sadly, remainers don't really get this point; still lost in a deeply personal grief.

[Beskar]

I think the snap election is due to current investigation where Election Expenses Fraud is looking to result in the need of 23 narrow-margin Conservative seats to be re-elected.

A new general election with the government on the offensive would give a far better result than being on the defensive in by-elections as a result of election fraud and losing their majority.

Looks like I am not the only one who thought this...
https://politicalscrapbook.net/2017/...al/#more-63131

and Independent did an article on it too
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7689801.html

[Elmetiacos]

I am willing to bet against Erdogan winning a seat in England's parliament.

Me too, seeing as England doesn't have a parliament.

[Fragony]

Clearly it's Erdoğan's victory in the rigged election to become Führer that's inspired this unabashed power grab.

Odd comparison, Maymight doesn't need to rig anything, most Brits voted against somethingshe doesn't even supports herself but does anyway. I higly respect her for doing that. Erdogan is a rabid madman and a spitefull bully, Theresa May someone you can talk with.

[Elmetiacos]

...although you won't come away any better informed than when you started.

[Fragony]

...although you won't come away any better informed than when you started.

You won't be in jail either because you are thought to be a Corbyn supporter, it's all fair game (or as good as it gets of course). Agreing to disagree is a very good thing.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

No Gah option.

[rory_20_uk]

If Corbyn was in power, he'd have the country insolvent in under 5 years.

If a country runs a budget surplus and therefore doesn't need to go cap in hand to the markets for money then they can do what they like.

Corbyn would be requiring vast amounts of money for the number of projects he would want to kick off and unless he decides to print money he'll have to borrow money from the very system he's so against. And before long we'd be following Venezuela with a collapsing currency, industry and brain drain.

Lib Dems haven't got enough experienced candidates in-house to even fill the front bench.
SNP don't care about anything bar Scotland.

The line up is so dreadful that the only candidate who has an outside chance of managing the country is the Conservatives Oh yes they are so nasty. It reminds me of an analagy where a household of two parents and two young children where each parent runs the household on alternate 6 months. The first one goes crazy with the plastic, buys loads of toys, gets a car on credit and takes a loan for downpayment on an extension. The other parent then comes in and sees that all the money has gone and there's no way to even cover the current liabilities. So things are taken away.

The children of course love the first kind parent and hate the second mean, nasty one. Because they are unable to understand how the former has caused most of the issues.

Which is not to say the Conservatives might be "nasty" anyway, but as things stand we have the earlier spending binge to "thank"

[Beskar]

The line up is so dreadful that the only candidate who has an outside chance of managing the country is the Conservatives Oh yes they are so nasty. It reminds me of an analagy where a household of two parents and two young children where each parent runs the household on alternate 6 months. The first one goes crazy with the plastic, buys loads of toys, gets a car on credit and takes a loan for downpayment on an extension. The other parent then comes in and sees that all the money has gone and there's no way to even cover the current liabilities. So things are taken away.

The children of course love the first kind parent and hate the second mean, nasty one. Because they are unable to understand how the former has caused most of the issues.

Which is not to say the Conservatives might be "nasty" anyway, but as things stand we have the earlier spending binge to "thank"

But you forget an important part in your analogy.
Parent one - over invests in the household. Put the patio on credit card, and so on. Making improvements to the house. Invests in the children with hiring tutors to help with their education and giving multi-vitamins and sports clubs so they will grow up healthy.

Unfortunately, there is a disaster in the street. All the households are affected greatly by this. Parent two said they have the solution to the problems, by cutting down on household spending to get through the hard times. Even though Parent one recognised this themselves, Parent two is far more brutal. During the first months, the family friend helped keep Parent two in check, but after accusations of an affair, family friend is no longer around and Parent two is in full control.

Parent two decides to stop everything. Pocket money is not increasing for the kids, in fact, it is cut. The tutors are stopped, the sports clubs are stopped, the multivitamins are stopped. We are all in this together, hard times. The months turn into years, the household is not recovering, in fact it is in even more debt! The car is being sold off to the local taxi service, who charges per use, instead of a cheap flat-rate. Parent two is often spending money income the pub, and giving gifts to their friends at the expense of the others in the househouse. During a local housing community meeting, Parent Two sticks their fingers up at the other households, going, "better without you lot!". Grandparents are now homeless, and 'bed-blocking' hospitals as Parent Two decided to sell their house and not replace it. Parent Two makes promises which cannot keep, constantly lying and making u-turns on policy. Parent Two is also rather abusive to the children too.

So yes, 'Parent Two' is the nasty one for taking the toys away indeed. Nothing about being selfish-toff who took away the toys for beer money to go out drinking with the 'lads' instead. I guess getting those round of pints at the pub as one of the 'lads' looks sweeter when you are not one of the 'children'.

[Beskar]

I know PFH once disliked my negative view of those choosing not to participate in voting then complain about the government we get, but this picture explains in a nice visual way:

[rory_20_uk]

So... Tomy and his mates didn't give his rich mates a load of money from PFI deals that have in some cases bankrupted hospitals.

Unforseen? Hilarious! Perhaps only to Brown who after a few years on the job declares boom and bust over - so yes he didn't forsee the problem because he willfully refused to look for it.

Tutors? Os that an analogy for trying to get everyone in to Uni (which between scrapping grants and introducing fees costs a fortune)? Companies not thrilled about the extra skills, mainly howling about how the "skills" they have at the end of the degrees are almost useless.
You don't need vitamin tablets to grow up healthy. They do cost a lot though.

Bed blocking was around for some time - you remember? Back when hospitals were lumbered with loads of debt from the PFI schemes they were forced to have? Present then as well. And before.

Tony didn't sort out the lack of Council houses either. There should have been loads given he had over a decade. I guess wars abroad were more important.

Selfish toff? Oh - Blair, Milliband and most of the others were oh so poor. Are we forgetting Miliband's video where he was portrayed in the au pair's kitchen? Very much one of the people - who have million pound houses.
Whilst we're on it... Where did they all go University and school? What's that again? Oxford? PPE? Oh yes! Just like the Conservatives! And the current leader of Labour and the Conservative both went to Grammar schools.

Amazing how much of what Labour has done has been magically airbrushed out. All that seems to remain is the debt and blaming others.

[Elmetiacos]

So you're attacking Labour for being too left wing and when counter points are raised you attack Labour for being too right wing?

[Beskar]

Apparently this is being shared around. A spreadsheet of "Progressive Alliance" (Labour, Lib Dem, SNP, Greens, etc) recommending who to vote for if you want the Tories out. So it highlights who is in 2nd place to the Conservatives, recommending to vote in that direction in their held seats, and what seats are currently held by what party.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...aI1bU8/pubhtml

[Seamus Fermanagh]

So you're attacking Labour for being too left wing and when counter points are raised you attack Labour for being too right wing?

5-6 more elections under those conditions and you lot can generate your own Donald Trump.

[rory_20_uk]

So you're attacking Labour for being too left wing and when counter points are raised you attack Labour for being too right wing?

It might startle you to learn that the terms "left wing" and "right wing" are rather broad brush strokes.

Merely that the leaders are equally wealthy elitists from the same place means it is hard to blame the Conservatives alone for this.

I don't think anyone would deny when last in power Labour spent vast sums of money during the boom years and saved little / none for the bad years since they had "cured" it.

Perhaps it is better to say that one side is full of elitist cronies from a wealthy background who further the business interests of their friends, as are the other lot but also like to create a much larger national debt since there is the belief they will somehow get a return on the spending.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

I am struck by how "Yuppie" Beskar's analogy is, a new patio, multi-vitamins, tutors, sports clubs.

All things most people either can't afford or wouldn't waste money on.