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Thread: UK General Election 2017

  1. #31
    Senior Member Senior Member Idaho's Avatar
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    Default Re: UK General Election 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by Beskar View Post
    I know PFH once disliked my negative view of those choosing not to participate in voting then complain about the government we get, but this picture explains in a nice visual way:

    Have you heard of the central limit theory of statistics?
    "The republicans will draft your kids, poison the air and water, take away your social security and burn down black churches if elected." Gawain of Orkney

  2. #32
    Mr Self Important Senior Member Beskar's Avatar
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    Default Re: UK General Election 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by Philippus Flavius Homovallumus View Post
    I am struck by how "Yuppie" Beskar's analogy is, a new patio, multi-vitamins, tutors, sports clubs.

    All things most people either can't afford or wouldn't waste money on.
    It was a bad analogy example, I had to work within my limits. Clearly Tutor is "Education", "Pills" being NHS, Patio being Infrastructure. etc.

    As for something punny.
    Last edited by Beskar; 04-22-2017 at 01:57.
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  3. #33
    Mr Self Important Senior Member Beskar's Avatar
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    Default Re: UK General Election 2017

    Tories plan VAT tax bombshell after election - hitting struggling families with financial blow
    Chancellor Philip Hammond signalled he would drop the party’s 2015 manifesto pledge not to raise VAT, income tax or national insurance contributions.
    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politic...hell-10272034#



    Looks like it isn't just the 'evil Lefties' planning on raising taxes. Though at least they said about raising it on the rich, and not the poor.
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  4. #34
    Senior Member Senior Member Idaho's Avatar
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    Default Re: UK General Election 2017

    Keynesian economics are back in favour, even with the right :

    https://www.bloomberg.com/view/artic...s-is-hot-again
    "The republicans will draft your kids, poison the air and water, take away your social security and burn down black churches if elected." Gawain of Orkney

  5. #35
    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: UK General Election 2017

    Some form of Keynesian economics were part of all centralized states since time immeroial. In the mid 70s some crazy New York bankers came up with deregulation and eventually got a hold of Reagan and now we have Sam Brownback

    this is Americas fault.
    There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford

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  6. #36
    Ja mata, TosaInu Forum Administrator edyzmedieval's Avatar
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    Default Re: UK General Election 2017

    I'm not fully knowlegdeable on the cause, so someone please do a quick info note for me - why is Labour not doing ideal in polls right now?

    The Tories are running away with it at this moment.
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  7. #37
    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
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    Default Re: UK General Election 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by edyzmedieval View Post
    I'm not fully knowlegdeable on the cause, so someone please do a quick info note for me - why is Labour not doing ideal in polls right now?

    The Tories are running away with it at this moment.
    Take yer pick. Think of all the possible reasons why a mainstream left wing party may do badly, and every one of those reasons is applicable. The Tory press haven't even begun work on the Labour leader's past yet, as the Tories want to play up the threat of a Labour win in order to get their vote out.

  8. #38
    BrownWings: AirViceMarshall Senior Member Furunculus's Avatar
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    Default Re: UK General Election 2017

    john curtice is saying 12 tory seats in scotland. scotland!

    this is gonna be an epic smack down.
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  9. #39
    Voluntary Suspension Voluntary Suspension Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Re: UK General Election 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by Beskar View Post
    Tories plan VAT tax bombshell after election - hitting struggling families with financial blow
    Chancellor Philip Hammond signalled he would drop the party’s 2015 manifesto pledge not to raise VAT, income tax or national insurance contributions.
    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politic...hell-10272034#



    Looks like it isn't just the 'evil Lefties' planning on raising taxes. Though at least they said about raising it on the rich, and not the poor.
    Excuse me, it is generally an error of the Left to assign moral bankruptcy to their political opponents, not the Right. That is why Communists operate Gulags.

    Barely anyone every says "evil Lefties".

    Anyway, could you have found a less impartial article?

    Refusing to raise taxes at all is a foolish commitment, one that bit Hammond on the arse earlier this year when he tried to institute a very modest increase the NI Contributions for the self-employed (who would still have paid less than other workers) to help fund the NHS.

    In other news - Jeremy Corbyn shows how out of touch he is with having a normal job:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39682388

    General election 2017: Labour plans four new bank holidays

    "These holidays will be a chance for workers to spend time with their families, in their communities and with their friends"

    Jezza - nobody gets bank holidays off any more, unless they work in the public sector.
    "If it wears trousers generally I don't pay attention."

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  10. #40
    Voluntary Suspension Voluntary Suspension Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Re: UK General Election 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
    Take yer pick. Think of all the possible reasons why a mainstream left wing party may do badly, and every one of those reasons is applicable. The Tory press haven't even begun work on the Labour leader's past yet, as the Tories want to play up the threat of a Labour win in order to get their vote out.
    Yes, starting with his three wives - each younger than the last, all very pretty.

    Here's something from 1999 about that second divorce and sending Corbyn's son to a Grammar: https://www.theguardian.com/uk/1999/...bserver.uknews

    Ironically, it notes he's unlikely tyo ever have any government post. More to the point, it illustrates that he's rather send his son to a failing school than a Grammar school. To my mind this is an example of principle over a clear practically choice for your nearest kin. In the end he absented himself from responsibility by separating from his wife and leaving her to make the decision alone - which smacks a little of moral cowardice.
    "If it wears trousers generally I don't pay attention."

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  11. #41

    Default Re: UK General Election 2017

    Barely anyone every says "evil Lefties".
    A popular, if not overwhelming, sentiment among the American right. I suspect you downplay its currency in the UK.

    Jezza - nobody gets bank holidays off any more, unless they work in the public sector.
    Jezza? He's not Australian.
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  12. #42

    Default Re: UK General Election 2017

    In fact, have a representative right-wing comment:

    What trends led to Democrats defeat? Well let's see, they hate God, babies, the constitution, law and order, all of our traditions, the traditional family, our flag, which they frequently burn and defecate on while flying the flags of foreign nations, freedom of speech, unless they approve of it, our founding father's, our history, which they frequently rewrite to exclude all the good that led to what we are today in favor of painting everyone and everything as a long list of ism's and phobias. They hate personal responsibility, hard work, integrity, honor and would rather encourage people to call themselves a victim of one thing or another in order to take no responsibility for their own actions and live entirely off the backs of producers, who they also hate. They hate republicans, conservatives, anyone who does not grovel to their horrifying ideology. In short the party that prtends to be tolerant and compassionate has absolutely no tolerance or compassion for the millions and millions and millions they hate.
    There is no limit to variations of this sentiment.
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  13. #43
    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
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    Default Re: UK General Election 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by Montmorency View Post
    In fact, have a representative right-wing comment:

    There is no limit to variations of this sentiment.
    Looking through that list, I can find examples of nearly all the non-American epithets in Corbyn's history.

    they hate God
    Few people in the UK care about religion

    babies
    See what PFH said about Corbyn's son.

    the constitution
    NA.

    law and order
    Corbyn has celebrated terrorist attacks in mainland Britain, and associated with terrorist groups.

    all of our traditions
    ?

    the traditional family
    See PFH's comments about Corbyn's son.

    our flag, which they frequently burn and defecate on while flying the flags of foreign nations
    Few people in the UK care about the flag except during football tournaments.

    freedom of speech, unless they approve of it
    No hypocrisy here, although he gets antsy at any remotely difficult questions.

    our founding father's
    NA.

    our history, which they frequently rewrite to exclude all the good that led to what we are today in favor of painting everyone and everything as a long list of ism's and phobias
    See Corbyn's version of the Labour party's history, which denies that the last Labour government did any good at all (something not even the Tory party goes as far to disclaim).

    They hate personal responsibility, hard work
    Corbyn has next to zero experience of real life work, with his last such job being part time journalism when he was still a teenager. He's been in politics since his early 20s.

    integrity, honor
    Corbyn is notoriously one of the most disloyal MPs in Parliament, having voted against his party over 500 times in his career, including 250+ times during a 2 year stretch at the end of the last Labour government. His supporters have excoriated the non-Corbyn loyalist MPs as disloyal.

    and would rather encourage people to call themselves a victim of one thing or another in order to take no responsibility for their own actions
    AFAIK Corbyn hasn't said anything on this subject. However, his shadow Home Secretary is notorious for supporting every such cause out there.

    and live entirely off the backs of producers, who they also hate
    His shadow Chancellor is on record as welcoming economic recession as an opportunity for revolution, and suggesting an increased rate of tax for a top bracket that's half the level paid to Corbyn, who himself says he doesn't think he is rich.

    They hate republicans, conservatives, anyone who does not grovel to their horrifying ideology. In short the party that prtends to be tolerant and compassionate has absolutely no tolerance or compassion for the millions and millions and millions they hate.
    Probably a bit too US-specific to be applicable.

    NB. The list doesn't include trust on defence or economic competence. two key issues in UK politics (especially the latter, which is normally decisive), where he rates far, far lower than his Tory counterparts. Also, the list doesn't accuse the Democrats of supporting Communism. While the stigma in the UK is less than in the US, Corbyn's friends and staff have actually supported Communism, with his chief of staff deemed an extremist by the former leader of the British Communist Party.

  14. #44
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: UK General Election 2017

    It's funny how so many Republicans seem to love hard work and not having healthcare once your body is ruined because your hard work didn't pay well enough to afford private insurance. And it doesn't pay well because all those other Republicans offer to do it for less.

    But yeah, I get it, just send more people to the coal mines and everything will be fine.


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  15. #45
    Mr Self Important Senior Member Beskar's Avatar
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    Default Re: UK General Election 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by Husar View Post
    It's funny how so many Republicans seem to love hard work and not having healthcare once your body is ruined because your hard work didn't pay well enough to afford private insurance. And it doesn't pay well because all those other Republicans offer to do it for less. But yeah, I get it, just send more people to the coal mines and everything will be fine.
    Don't forget all the people who lost their jobs in the credit crunch and struggled to get meaningful paid work. They were just lazy. They should take personal responsibility and be glad to work for half-below minimum wage delivering Pizza and should appreciate not getting a tip which they need to actually afford the petrol to run the cars since the workplace doesn't cover that. How dare they demand they get a proper wage! That will mean the price of Pizza will go up, to cover the costs of the employees and we cannot be having that.
    Last edited by Beskar; 04-23-2017 at 08:49.
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  16. #46
    Like the Parthian Boot Member Elmetiacos's Avatar
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    Default Re: UK General Election 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by rory_20_uk View Post
    It might startle you to learn that the terms "left wing" and "right wing" are rather broad brush strokes.

    Merely that the leaders are equally wealthy elitists from the same place means it is hard to blame the Conservatives alone for this.

    I don't think anyone would deny when last in power Labour spent vast sums of money during the boom years and saved little / none for the bad years since they had "cured" it.
    Corbyn is nothing like as wealthy as the Blairs, that's ridiculous - they are filthy rich with a property portfoilo estimated at between 20 and 30 million pounds. The idea that Labour's overspending caused the international banking crisis was Cameron's party line, but it's crap: the problem was that Labour ran up a debt trying to prevent the recession which Tory cuts produced anyway so we got the worst of both worlds: had the Tories been in power in 2007 to do nothing, or had Labour stayed after 2010 and avoided the recession, things wouldn't have gone down the tubes so quickly.
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  17. #47
    Like the Parthian Boot Member Elmetiacos's Avatar
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    Default Re: UK General Election 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by Philippus Flavius Homovallumus View Post
    Yes, starting with his three wives - each younger than the last, all very pretty.

    Here's something from 1999 about that second divorce and sending Corbyn's son to a Grammar: https://www.theguardian.com/uk/1999/...bserver.uknews
    The article actually says that he didn't send his son to a grammar school, but don't let the truth get in the way of a good story, eh?
    'you owe it to that famous chick general whose name starts with a B'
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  18. #48

    Default Re: UK General Election 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by Elmetiacos View Post
    The article actually says that he didn't send his son to a grammar school, but don't let the truth get in the way of a good story, eh?
    I get to point out that this is indeed what his post is talking about.
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  19. #49
    Mr Self Important Senior Member Beskar's Avatar
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    Default Re: UK General Election 2017

    Tony Blair is telling people to vote Lib Dem, or to vote Tory where the candidate is open-minded about Brexit (ie: not hard-liner).
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  20. #50
    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
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    Default Re: UK General Election 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by Beskar View Post
    Tony Blair is telling people to vote Lib Dem, or to vote Tory where the candidate is open-minded about Brexit (ie: not hard-liner).
    The author of Corbyn's manifesto urged people to vote Class War in the last general election. Nope, I hadn't heard of them either. But this is where the Labour party currently is, with its leaders and directors from what used to be known as the far left. Oh, and don't forget that the former leader of the British Communist Party called Corbyn's current chief of staff an extremist. It's quite something when the leader of the Communist party thinks you're too left wing.

  21. #51
    Horse Archer Senior Member Sarmatian's Avatar
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    Default Re: UK General Election 2017

    I'm gonna have to research Corbyn a bit more. It's fascinating (from afar) how polarizing he appears to be.

  22. #52

    Default Re: UK General Election 2017

    This began as a different thought, but hey, if the UK embarks on and is encouraged in a policy of deepening the Commonwealth over relations with the rest of the world, can Anglo-Americans ever get a Law of Return?

    Maybe it will be introduced when the minorities take over America and enforce white genocide, hence peak decolonization.

    (I really got carried away from my original thought)
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  23. #53
    Voluntary Suspension Voluntary Suspension Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Re: UK General Election 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by Elmetiacos View Post
    The article actually says that he didn't send his son to a grammar school, but don't let the truth get in the way of a good story, eh?
    No, HE didn't, his wife did>

    By now, they had agreed to separate and that Claudia would have ultimate responsibility for the children. She sent their son to Queen Elizabeth's grammar school, nine miles away in Barnet.
    So he got around it by absenting responsibility.
    "If it wears trousers generally I don't pay attention."

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  24. #54
    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: UK General Election 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarmatian View Post
    I'm gonna have to research Corbyn a bit more. It's fascinating (from afar) how polarizing he appears to be.
    He's a typical bourgeois leftist whom garnered popular support because Britain is only left of the USA in the west.

    ho-hum.
    There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford

    My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.

    I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.

  25. #55
    Like the Parthian Boot Member Elmetiacos's Avatar
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    Default Re: UK General Election 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarmatian View Post
    I'm gonna have to research Corbyn a bit more. It's fascinating (from afar) how polarizing he appears to be.
    Oh, he's a useless wanker, I freely admit, even though I'll be tactically voting Labour in the election to prevent Theresa Erdoğan's power grab.
    'you owe it to that famous chick general whose name starts with a B'
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  26. #56
    Voluntary Suspension Voluntary Suspension Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Re: UK General Election 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by Elmetiacos View Post
    Oh, he's a useless wanker, I freely admit, even though I'll be tactically voting Labour in the election to prevent Theresa Erdoğan's power grab.
    What happened in Turkey cannot happen in the UK until we become a Republic.

    Another reason I refuse to continence Corbyn.
    "If it wears trousers generally I don't pay attention."

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  27. #57
    Horse Archer Senior Member Sarmatian's Avatar
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    Default Re: UK General Election 2017

    You don't think a head of state can grab power unless the position isn't hereditary?

  28. #58
    Voluntary Suspension Voluntary Suspension Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Re: UK General Election 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarmatian View Post
    You don't think a head of state can grab power unless the position isn't hereditary?
    The Prime Minister is not Head of State.

    The closest we have had is Tony Blair, and his "Sofa Government" was one of the things that made him increasingly unpopular.

    No British politician can compete with the Royal Family.

    God save the Queen.
    "If it wears trousers generally I don't pay attention."

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  29. #59
    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
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    Default Re: UK General Election 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by Philippus Flavius Homovallumus View Post
    The Prime Minister is not Head of State.

    The closest we have had is Tony Blair, and his "Sofa Government" was one of the things that made him increasingly unpopular.

    No British politician can compete with the Royal Family.

    God save the Queen.
    The polarisation of Brexit, and especially the identification of the government with national interests, has elevated May higher than Blair ever got. Opposition to Blair has never been accused of being unpatriotic. Opposition to May has been accused of undermining Britain's position against the EU (see her stated rationale for calling the election). I don't remember what it was like during Falklands, but Major's government was certainly not identified with the country during GWI, and Blair was never in a war where the country was united behind the cause. May is unique in her position AFAICR.

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    Default Re: UK General Election 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by Philippus Flavius Homovallumus View Post
    The Prime Minister is not Head of State.

    The closest we have had is Tony Blair, and his "Sofa Government" was one of the things that made him increasingly unpopular.

    No British politician can compete with the Royal Family.

    God save the Queen.
    He worded it in a difficult way, but that's what he said, that you believe a non-elected head of state limits the possibility of autocracy in the UK.
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