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Thread: Look Away Politically Incorrect Information on Slavery in the CSA, America, and World

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    Default Look Away Politically Incorrect Information on Slavery in the CSA, America, and World

    Look Away!!! Politically Incorrect Information About Life as a Southern Slave

    The Slave’s Diet and Living Quarters


    “There is no question that the slave diet was sufficient to maintain the slave body wight and general health”
    -Robert William Fogel The Rise and Fall of American Slavery

    “Dey had to feed us an plenty of it, cause us couldnt wuk if dey dident feed us good.”
    -Alec Bostwick Georgia Slave Narratives


    To purchase an expensive slave and not feed them, would not give the purchaser a return on their purchase. As owners knew, slaves need energy to work. If you underfed them, then you would lose out on their potential production. Slave’s food consumption passed the free man’s consumption of 1879 by 10%. They averaged 6oz of meat a day (1 oz below free whites) and ate a variety of fruits/vegetables/grains. The slave’s diet exceeds the modern [1964] recommended daily intake. Two separate studies concluded slaves eat 4,200 calories a day not including game and fishing. Poor whites use to come to large plantations and beg for food from the slaves. The federal census of 1860 determined that the ordinary plantation was well quartered with 5.2 slaves per house compared to 5.3 for whites. Since the family unit was often encourages by owners, slave’s families often got or would get, if they married and started a family, a house of their own on the plantation. The slave’s material condition was greater than the northern industrial worker of the time. Scientist, Sir Charles Lyell, said of the slave quarters “Neat as the greater part of the cottages in Scotland.”

    “The slaves were well provided for”
    -Northern Frederick Law Olmsted



    Medical Treatment

    "Old massa have doctor for us when us sick. We's too val'ble
    -Abmstead Barrett Texas Slave narratives

    "De owners always tuk care of us, and when us got sick dey would git a doctor” -Henry Cheatam Alabama Slave Narratives

    “Studies of probate record suggest that most slaves received as much medical care as their owners”
    -T.J Stiles, author of “Jesse James last Rebel of the Civil War”


    Laws were in place to ensure that the owner's must care for and meet the needs of the slaves. Plantation owners spent more money on slaves than freemen did on their children decades after the civil war. Often on larger plantations they would have their own mini-hospital, with an on-site doctor. Smaller plantations would often have an on-site nurse. In the decades following the war, when the slaves were freed, African American’s life expectancy dropped by 10% and sickness rose by 20%. They received better medical care while in slavery under the care of an invested master.

    “White folks jus had to be good to sick slaves, cause slaves was property. For old master to lose a slave was losin money”
    -Rachael Adams Georgia Slave Narratives

    Condition of the Slave in the South Work all day, no Play?

    “To say that they are under worked and overfed and are far happier than the labors of great Britan would hardly convey a sufficiently clear notion of their actual condition. They put me much more in mind of a community of grown children, spoiled by to much kindness, than a body of dependents. Much less a community of slaves”
    -Louis F Tasistro of Great Britain

    “The slaves do not go around looking unhappy, and are with difficulty, I fancy, persuaded to feel so. Whips and chains oaths and brutality are as common, for all that one sees, in the free as the slave states. We have come thus far, and might have gone ten times as far, I dare say, without seeing the first sign of negro misery or white tyranny”
    - Bostonian Charles Elliot Norton, while in South Carolina


    “If the colored people of Savannah Columbia and Richmond are not, as a whole, a happy people, I have never seen any”
    -Nehemiah Adams a South Side View of Slavery 1854

    Many in the south thought that slavery was beneficial to the negro, especially the removal from Africa. By leaving Africa, their quality of life increased in every way. Southern slaves worked 10% less than northern farmers on average, because crop production took less time than animal and dairy farming common in the north. In the 1840's Scottish observer William Thompson said slaves don't work “One fourth so much as a scotch.” Some plantations had 5 hour work days and others were always done by 2-3 in the afternoon. Because of sick slaves old and young, usually around 1/3 of slaves on a given plantation were not working or doing very light work. Multiple studies found slaves worked on average only 281 days a year, due to the Sabbath off, holidays, weather and sickness. The work that was done was carried. Even on the large cotton plantations work was divided between 38% time on cotton, 31% livestock and growing corn and 31% repairs, domestic duties etc.

    “the labor...is no more than is performed by a hired field hand at the north”
    -Nehemiah Adams a South Side View of Slavery 1854

    “One might almost imagine one's self to be in Hayti [Haiti] and think that colored people had got possession of the town and held sway, while the whites were living among them as sufferance”
    -Englishmen James Silk Buckingham, visited Virginia in 1840's

    Slaves’ income varied, and with good effort would be rewarded with higher level jobs, such as running the plantation. 7% of slaves were in some managerial job. Slaves had down time as well as their own money to spend. Often they had their own business on the side to make extra cash to spend. Slave “renting” was common, this is where a skilled slave [carpentry, blacksmith etc] would advertise their services, negotiate their own contracts, and own their own place of business. Slaves in America learned more skills than anywhere in Africa. Slaves started dominating certain trades in cities. This caused some southern whites to get upset at the slave owners because the slaves were taking all the carpentry, blacksmith, and cabin making jobs.

    Slaves often owned property of their own on the plantation, 60% of those interviewed by the federal Writers project said they owned their own land. In typical slave owning Germantown, LA, slaves maintained their own accounts at stores and freely made purchases at the stores. During free time Slaves worked at local stores, earning the same wages as whites according to store records. Slaves sold goods to the store that they made or grew in their downtime and from their own property. At the store, slaves purchased “luxury” and “snack” items, as basic needs were cared for by their owner. The slaves also bought gun powder, knives, and writing utensils. In the book, Time on the Cross, they estimated slaves received as much as 90% of the wages they earned (with modern tax rates, few earn that much today).

    “Slaves received on average better and more certain compensation [for work] than any laboring people”
    -R.L Dabney, A Defense of Virginia and the South


    Many would purchase their own freedom, other slaves, and land. Some would become prosperous slave owners themselves, or tradesmen and business owners. Often slaves and free blacks worked a plantation owned by a white that was residing in other part of country; the owner would only be their seasonally.

    “How they sang; how they laughed and grinned...heard amongst the black folks endless singing, shouting and laughter; and saw on holidays black gentlemen and ladies arrayed in such splendor and comfort as freeborn workmen in our english towns seldom exhibit”
    -English novelist, William M. Thackeray

    “De young folks don't know nothing about good times and good living, dey don't understand how come I wish I wuz still in slavery."
    -Adam Smith, Mississippi Slave Narratives

    "Wen I sit and think of all the good things we had to eat an all the fun we had, 'course we had to work, but you knows, when a crowd all works togather and sings and laughs, first thing you know--the works all done."
    -Ellen King, Mississippi Slave Narratives

    “That was a happy time, with happy days. I’ll be satisfied to see my Savior that my old marster worshiped and my husband preach about. I wants to be in heaven with all my white folks, just to wait on them and love them, and serve them, sorta like I did in slavery time. That will be enough heaven for Adeline.”
    -Slave Adeline Johnson Slave Narratives

    "Lawsey man, dem were de days!We usta have some good times. We could have all the fun we wanted on Sa'dday nights, and we sho had it, cuttin monkey shines, and dancing all night long. Sometimes our mistis would come down early to watch us."
    -Sidney Bonner, Alabama Slave Narratives

    “Miss, us niggers on de Bennett place [Plantation] wuz free as soon as we wuz bawn. I always been free”
    -Hannah Irwin, Alabama Slave Narratives

    “Cotton pickin was big fun too, and when dey got through pickin de cotton dey et and drank and danced till dey could dance no more”
    -Rachael Adams Georgia Slave Narratives

    “Slavery times wuz sho good times. We wuz fed an' clothed an' had nothin to worry about”
    -Sarah and Tom Douglas, Alabama Slave Narratives

    “In slavery days the negroes had quilt tings, dances, picnics and everybody had a good time”
    -Arrie Binns Georgia slave narratives

    “Dem days fore de war was good old days, speically for de colored folks..oh missy dem was good old days us would be lucky to have em back. You could hear niggers singin in de fields cause dey diden't have no worries lak dey got now...dat cornshukin wuz easy wid everyone sigin and havin a good time together...old times when folkes loved one another den dey does now.”
    -Jasper Battle Georgia Slave Narratives

    "I think slavery was a good thing. I never suffered for nothin'."
    -Perry Sheppard, Slave Narratives

    “My white people dey good tuh me....why, ah was jes lak dey's chullun [Children] ah played wid em, et wid em an' eb' n slep wid 'em.....Dem was good ol times, ah tel yuh, honey....”
    -Mrs. Candis Goodwin, Virginia Slave Narratives

    “I think slavery was a mighty good thing for Mother, Father, me and the other members of the family, and I cannot say anything but good for my old marster and missus, but I can only speak for those whose conditions I have known during slavery and since. For myself and them, I will say again, slavery was a mighty good thing.”
    -Slave Mary Anderson, North Carolina Slave Narratives


    Master/Slave Relationship

    “Generally and Honorable, with some few exceptions, kind and indulgent masters to their slaves” -Timothy Fint on slaveholders in Alabama 1833

    “Domestic slaves were almost uniformly dealt with indulgently and ever affectionately by their masters... the greater part of slave owners were humane in their treatment of their slaves- kind indulgent, not over exacting and sincerely interested in the physical well being of their dependents”
    -President Woodrow Wilson

    “It may be said than no other economic system before or since that time has engendered a bond of personal affection between capital and labour so strong as that established by the institution of slavery”
    -Dr Henry A. White, History professor at Washington and Lee University in 1900


    The normal depiction of slavery is a racist white owner standing there with a whip, who cares nothing of his slaves. He beats them regularly and forces them to work all day. He is willing to kill what he paid for, if they are out of line. He views the slave as a less evolved animal. The truth is much different. While there was the “evil” master who did horrible things, that was the exception, not the rule. As was said of the cruel slave master, he was cruel to all, even his own kids. Slaves and their master typically had a good relationship that was beneficial to both parties. Just because slaves were legally “property” in the same way as a chair, it does not conclude the human master would not view his human slave as, a human.

    “When we make the labor the property of the same persons whom the land and capital belong, self interest inevitably impels them to share with the laborer liberally enough to preserve his life and efficiency...by this arrangement also, a special tie and bond of sympathy are established between the capitalist and his laborers. They are members of his family. They not only work but Live, on his premises”
    -R.L Dabney A defense of Virginia and the South 1867


    Often the relationship was more like a family than one owning the other. Most all slaves were born in America. They grew up with, played with, worked with, and often ate with their future masters (the children of the current master). It was normal for future masters to use family names, such as aunt or uncle for the slaves. Slave narratives speak of future masters as children (these future white masters) being shown to use guns, fish, hunt, etc. by their slaves and forming family like relationships with them. Most white children on plantations were “raised as much by black woman as a white woman.” Slave women often worked in the house, cooking, cleaning, and also raising and schooling the master’s children. Once a owner challenged a judge to a duel for giving his slave whippings for a crime committed, that the owner thought unjust.

    “No prophet in early times could have told that kindness would grow as a flower from soil so faul, that slaves would come to be cherished not only as property of high value but as loving if lowly friends”
    -Ulrich B Phillips, Life and Labor in the Old South

    Most slave owners had very few slaves and worked along with them, lived with them, and were buried with them. Large plantation owners were like large business and industry owners in north, they often did not work with their employees. They did work to build the place up, often doing so away from the plantation. In the slave narratives, 60-80% could not say anything negative about their masters. How many of us could say the same about their boss today? Studying the slave narratives in South Carolina, Belina Hurmence said she found “little to no anger towards masters.” After the Civil war there are multiple accounts of slaves bringing food and money to former masters who had lost it all in the war. Mary Chestnut, a slave owner who was anti-slavery, said “they are so well situated and so cuddled by us that it is sometimes easy to forget that slavery is an evil.” She would also write that often it was the masters who took orders from the slaves.

    “With a family of more than 200 moths looking up to me for food, I feel lawful charge on my hands it is easy to rid myself of burden if I could shut my heart to the cry of humanity and the voice of duty. But in these poor slaves I have found my best and most faithful friends and I feel that it would be more difficult to abandon them to cruel fate to which our laws would consign them, than to suffer with them”
    -John Randolph, slave owner in 1814

    “I was raised by one of the greatest men in the world. There was never one born of a woman greater than Gen. Robert E. Lee, according to my judgment. All of his servants were set free ten years before the war, but all remained on the plantation until after the surrender.”
    -William Mack Lee, Robert E. Lee’s servant

    “I loved him, and I can say that every colored man he ever owned loved him”
    -Former slave of CSA president Jefferson Davis of Mississippi

    "De war broke out an' up-sot everything. I never can fer-get the de day dat Mars had to go. When he tole us good by every slave on the place collected 'round him an' cried, afraid he would never git back. We loved him an' de slaves stuck by him while he wuz away, de bes' hit could be wid de cavalrymen a taking an' a destroyin....When de war ended ole Mars....came home an' hit wuz a big day of rejoicin. We wuz so glad he come back safe to us."
    -Dave Walker, Mississippi Slave Narratives

    "My young marster used to work in de field wid us, til he went to de war, an' he'd boss de niggers. dey called him bud, but we all called him Babe. I sho did love dat boy. I loved him."
    -Susan Snow, Mississippi Slave Narratives

    "Master Joel musta been bawn on a sun shinny day 'cause he sho was bright an' good natured. Ever nigger on the plantation loved him lak he was sent from heaven."
    -Lightin' Mathews, Alabama Slave Narratives

    "My master was the best in the country”
    -John Smith, Alabama Slave Narratives

    “The rest of the family was all fine folks and good to me, but I loved Miss Ella better ’n anyone or anything else in the world. She was the best friend I ever had. If I ever wanted for anything, I just asked her and she give it to me or got it for me somehow.”
    -Slave L. Betty Cofer Slave Narratives

    “When marster died, that was the time of my first real sorrow. Three years later, missus passed away, that was the time of my second sorrow. Then, I reminded myself of a little tree out there in the woods in November. With every sharp and cold wind of trouble that blowed, more leaves of that tree turned loose and went to the ground, just like they was trying to follow her. It seemed like, when she was gone, I was just like that tree with all the leaves gone, naked and friendless. It took me a long time to get over all that; same way with the little tree, it had to pass through winter and wait on spring to see life again."
    -Ezra Adams, South Carolina Slave Narratives


    “My children, black and white”
    -Slave owner Jane Gill of Missouri, speaking of her slaves


    “I loved him, and I can say that every colored man he ever owned loved him”
    -Former slave of CSA president Jefferson Davis Mississippi

    “I sho would rather have slavery days back if I could have my same good master...I ant never got over being abel to see marse Alec no more..us sho did have de best marster in de world. If ever a man went to heaven, mars Alec did. I sho does wish our good old marster was livin now”
    -Georgia Backer Georgia Slave Narratives


    Treatment of Slaves [South] and Free Blacks [North/ Europe]

    “I am at a loss to imagine the source of that prejudice which subsist against him [ the negro] in the northern states, a prejudice unknown in the south, where the domestic relations between the African and European are so much more intimate” -English Abolitionist Marshall Hall

    “They fare better than the poor of any of our citizens are more warmly clad, work less, and are a thousand-fold more cheerful and contented” -Daniel Hundley, viewed slavery in Alabama

    “Sir, there does not exists on the face of the earth, a population so poor, so uterley destitute of comforts ,convinces , and decencies of life as the unfortunate blacks in Philadelphia,New York and Boston. Liberty has been to them the greatest of calamities the heaviest of curses... go home and emancipate your free negroes. When you do that, we will listen to you with more patience”
    -Sen Robert Y Hayne of South Carolina in debate with Daniel Webster

    “The free colored people were looked upon as an inferior caste to whom liberty was a curse, and their lot worse than that of slaves”
    -Abolitionist William Lloyd Garrison Biography

    To many, the treatment of blacks in the south under slavery was far better not only than that of free blacks in the north, but that of the white industrial workers in Europe and America as well. American president John Adams said “That in some countries the laboring poor were called freedmen, in others they were called slaves, but that the difference as to the state was imaginary only” A Nobel Prize winning book written by Robert Fogel, Time on the Cross, showed that the slaves in the south were treated better than slaves anywhere in world, and treated better than free blacks in the north and factory workers in the north. They worked less, were fed more, received better medical care, and had more living area. Free blacks in the north had higher death rates than southern slaves. In 1860, the population growth was 23% for southern slaves and 1.7% for free northern blacks.

    “It was a pleasant paradox to find that where the colored people are not free, they have in many ways the most liberty”
    -Nehemiah Adams a South Side View of Slavery 1854

    “He said that colored people could associate with whites much more easily and comfortable at the south than at the north. This is the reason he preferred the south” -Fredrick Law Olmstead speaking with of a black man who lived in LA and NY

    “The prejudice of the race appears to be stronger in the states which have abolished slavery, than in those were it still exists”
    - Alexis De Tocqueville, Democracy in America


    After the war, very few slaves left for the north, as they felt their treatment was better in the south than it would be in the north. During the war the slaves could have easily raised up and freed themselves as the north called them to do, but as slave owning Kate Stone said “we would be helpless should the negros rise since there are few men left at home. It is only because negros do not want to kill us that we are still alive.” During the war, the south was first to use blacks in the military and gave them equal pay, while the north did not. The south was first to appoint black officers in the war. A slave from Missouri said “colored people and whites associate more in the south than in the north. They go to parties together, dance together, colored people enjoy themselves more in the south.”

    “The prejudice of color is not nearly as strong in the south as the north [in the south] it is not at all uncommon to see black slaves of both sexes shake hands with white people when they met. And interchange friendly personal inquiries, but at the north I do not remember to have witnessed this once neither Boston, NY, Philadelphia would white persons generally like to be seen shaking hands with black in the streets”
    -English abolitionist James S Buckingham in 1842

    “It has struck me that the slaves there are much better off in many respects than the poor in England who are doomed to labors and starve”
    -1824, Mary Helan Herring Middelton

    “[Northern abolition] seeks not to elevate or to support the slave, but to destroy his present condition without providing a better.”
    -Mississippi Declaration of Causes for Succession

    “Our plan is more profitable [non slave factory workers] we take care of no children or sick people, except as paupers, while owners of slaves have to provide for them from birth till death”
    -John Haley, 17th Maine


    “Negro woman are carrying black and white babies together in arms, black and white children are playing together out of doors, to see the train go by”
    -Northerner Fredrick Olmsted, A Journey in the Seaboard Slave States

    “Treating them [blacks] on every occasion with utmost marked contempt”
    -Rep. Charles Pinckney of South Carolina, speaking of northerners

    “The difference between us is, that our slaves are hired for life and well compensated; there is no starvation, no begging, no want of employment among our people, and not too much employment either. Yours are hired by the day, not cared for, and scantily compensated, which may be proved in the most painful manner, at any hour in any street of your large towns. Why, you meet more beggars in one day, in any single street of the city of New York, than you would meet in a lifetime in the whole South.”
    -ames Henry Hammond cotton is king speech


    Laws Designed to Protect Slaves, Slave Rights, Slave Punishment, and Corporal Punishment [whipping] and Crime

    “It is not the policy or the interest of the south to destroy the negro on the contrary, to preserve and protect him”
    -Confederate General, Nathan Bedford Forrest

    “Slaves had more input on society than many believe”
    -Myths of American Slavery, by Walter D Kennedy

    “Good and kind treatment of the slaves is the common law”
    -Nehemiah Adams a South Side View of Slavery 1854

    Laws recognized slaves as both property and persons with rights[5,6]. Rape laws in Virginia gave equal protection to slaves as any white woman would receive. [Code 1819 p 585 ch 158/ Burnetts case, 2 Va cases, 235] Virginia laws gave equal protection to the slave from beatings, rape, and murder or “Threat to life and limb” equal to whites. [Virginia Code of 1849 Ch 191 S 9 edit 1860 p 784/ code of 1849 ch 208 s 30/ Chapple's case I Virginia cases, 184 Carvers Case 5th Randolphs Rep, 660] Slaves had equal rights to defend themselves “life and limb,” and could (and did) by law kill a master in defense of life. In Virginia in 1861 a slave turned on his master and killed him and was arrested by his fellow slaves. The slave admitted to murder in the first degree “I intended to kill him” yet was given a lesser charge because the master had harassed the slave with “barbarous and unusual punishments.” No slave was to be convicted of capital punishment unless all 5 judges agreed . In April 1864 the Virginia supreme court involving Elvira charged with the poisoning of her masters family. Only one of the judges dissented and she was acquitted.

    “The Laws of Virginia protected not only the life, but the limb of the slave against white persons, and even his own master”
    -R.L Dabney A defense of Virginia and the South 1867

    The Virginia a court case 1851 [7th Grattan, 673] a master was convicted of murder in the first degree for whipping his slave that resulted in death, even though it was unintended to result in death, he still received first degree instead of manslaughter. Stealing or kidnapping any individual with the purpose of selling him into slavery was a felony with up to 10 years in prison. [code of VA. 1849 chap 191 S 17] Any slave could petition and bring his case to court if he claimed he was unlawfully enslaved and repaid damages.[ 1849 chap 106] In a series of three trials involving the Mississippi supreme court [Josephine v Mississippi ] a slave Josephine was found guilty by overwhelming evidence of her murdering her masters wife and newborn child by poison. The master Mr. Jones had sexual relations with Josephine and in revenge she killed Mrs Jones and the new baby.

    “The facts of the trial court and the testimony of the witnesses provided substantial evidence of Josephine's guilt. Nevertheless, the legal community and system within Mississippi provided three trials in which the fundamental rights of the slave were acknowledged and adjudicated, in spite of the mounting evidence supporting the murder charges”
    -Marshall L Derosa Redeeming American Democracy


    She was released on a technicality. In the confederacy, slaves in Louisiana were entitled to legal council at state expense.[ Jones and Daugharty v Aaron Goza] An 1852 Alabama slave code required the owner “must provide him with sufficiency of healthy food”other laws made the master provide for all the medical needs of a slave “as own child.” Slave’s children’s care was the master’s responsibility as well. The master was responsible to take care of the slave’s well being after their work life was completed. If the slave worked hard during their life, the master would repay them with care. If the master did not take care of sick and old slaves, the others would not work hard; that is why so few older slaves ever ran away. The master, by law, had to care for sick and old slaves.

    “every slave has an inalienable claim in law upon his owner for support for the whole of life”
    -Nehemiah Adams a South Side View of Slavery 1854

    “Our plan is more profitable [non slave factory workers] we take care of no children or sick people, except as paupers, while owners of slaves have to provide for them from birth till death”
    -John Haley, 17th Maine

    When told by his master that he was now free Toby said to his master “You brought me from Africa and North Carolina and I goinr' stay wid you as long as ever I get sumpin to eat, you goots look after me”

    Corporal punishment was the typical mode of correction in American society of the day. It was used by slave parents on their children and white parents on their own children. In Virginia (and other states in south) slave parents had a reputation for being more severe in punishment of their children than the slave masters were. Masters at times had to come in and stop a slave parent from the excessive punishment of their children. Whites viewed slave mothers as lesser parents because of their harsh punishment of children. At the same time, England and the North used whips on kids and wives as legal corporal punishment. Whippings were used in military discipline as well. Black soldiers during the war whipped white civilians, Blacks whipped their wives, and teachers used a rod/whip in schools; it was common practice within the laws in America. Whippings produced nearly crime free societies. Yes, it was abused and overused, but these cases were rare and illegal. Charles Lyell noted how Negro crime in the 1830's was almost nonexistent; he said the Irish in a few years had done far worse than Negroes had through a hundred years. When Massachusetts abolitionist Nehemiah Adams traveled south he found in a town he visited that of the 2,000 crimes committed, only 12 were by “colored” individuals. Today ¼ of the african american male adult population is in a modern slavery jail system.

    Crime was practically unknown and Mr Ross slaves never heard of a jail until they were freed”
    -Della Briscoe Georgia slave narratives

    “most favorable to preservation from crimes against society”
    -Nehemiah Adams a South Side View of Slavery 1854

    Corporal punishment could be used on slaves, but not as to harm to “life or limb.” Some masters would not use the whip at all and fire any overseer who used one. The majority of surviving plantation manuals either did not allow whipping, or only did under dire circumstances. Others had laws such as: no whippings until a 24 hour period passed from the time of the crime. Some said, “Not to cut the skin when punishing, nor punish with passion.” Usually a trial was held on the plantation with other slaves as witnesses before any whipping could take place. Many slaves had never received a whipping in their entire life; whippings were uncommon. Normally rewards were given to promote good work, rather than punishments which tied to force good behavior. Such rewards could come in the form of cash bonuses, whiskey, tobacco, land, and food. Overuse of the whip caused negative effects and production. Whip marks show an uncontrollable slave and reduce their value; it decreases the moral of that slave and thus others production drops.

    “The slaves do not go around looking unhappy, and are with difficulty, I fancy, persuaded to feel so. Whips and chains oaths and brutality are as common, for all that one sees, in the free as the slave states. We have come thus far, and might have gone ten times as far, I dare say, without seeing the first sign of negro misery or white tyranny” - Bostonian Charles Elliot Norton, while in South Carolina

    In the slave narratives, many slaves say they deserved the whippings they got for stealing and other wrong doings. Some say they were thankful for the lesson; many others were not bitter because the punishment either taught them to not steal, be “wild,” or because they thought they deserved the ones they got. Often times slaves were in control of the plantation and even the punishments. The owners generally were busy in advertising the product, the purchase of equipment, buying new land, constructing new buildings, negotiations, etc. A cording to the 1860 census data, on plantations with over 100 slaves, an average of only 2 white males lived on those plantations. Slaves were generally self governing. On large plantations, 70% of overseers who were in charge of punishments were black, meaning that more blacks than whites used the whip for punishments on larger plantations. One observer from Scotland said, “The driver is always a black man.” These overseers were often “consulted” by owners for suggestions to improve plantation life and production. However the most common ill treatment of slaves involved heavy punishment; in most cases to which there were laws in place to protect against it.

    ‘The Overseer must never on any occasion–unless in self-defense–kick a negro, or strike with his hand, or a stick, or the butt-end of his whip.’ Throughout the South, publicists denounced as un-Christian masters who mistreated those placed under their authority, and stressed the need for ‘moderate’ predictable punishment for offenses that were clearly spelled out. Such guidelines were dictated not simply by the much-vaunted ‘love’ that masters felt for their slaves, but also by intensely practical considerations: observant slave owners learned by experience that continual, random, or extreme punishment was likely to be counterproductive, producing confusion and seething resentment rather than cheerful and orderly deportment.
    -Peter Kolchin, American Slavery, 1619-1877


    Break-up of the African Family? Slave trade Within the South


    “Dey didn't know bout marryin in Africy [africa]”
    -Harriett Barrett Texas Slave narratives

    The importation of new slaves through the Atlantic slave trade, or any trade outside the CSA, was outlawed. But slavery from state to state and county to county was legal. There is no question that slave owners and traders did break up the family unit; and to me this may be the worst part of slavery. However, it was very uncommon and looked down upon by southern whites. Only 13% of slave trade sales resulted in the breakup of a family; usually the families were bought as a whole unit. Sometimes sales of single children were to reunite a family, other sales were just to manage titles, settle claims, estates etc with no actual sale taking place. The best production, as owners understood, was to keep the family unit together and encourage it. To buy a slave and break up his family would not be a good starting point for a productive slave.


    Keeping a family together would increase the slave’s happiness, increase work ethic, and reduced runaways or “lazy” slaves. Many slave dealers, like confederate general Nathan Bedford Forrest, went long distances and paid extra to reunite slave families. Scottish observer, William Thomson, said that slave families were more intact than the people of Scotland. The black family was more together in slavery than in modern times. The further you move away from slavery, the greater the breakup of the African American family. The African family was close to not even existing in Africa; it was usually a man with multiple wives who were pretty much “slaves.” Slavery created a strong family presence among African Americans.

    “Slave dealers were universally detested, and even ostracized”
    -President Woodrow Wilson

    “feelings of the south generally negro traders are the abhorrence of all flesh”
    -Nehemiah Adams a South Side View of Slavery 1854

    The Slave Trade and the Confederacy

    The importation of Negroes of the African race from any foreign country, other than the slaveholding States or Territories of the United States of America, is hereby forbidden; and Congress is required to pass such laws as shall effectually prevent the same
    -Article I Section 9(1) Confederate Constitution

    No slave ship ever flew the confederate flag. The slave trade was outlawed by the Confederate constitution. The slave trade that often mistreated and split up black families was looked down upon as a if a crime and moral wrong by the majority of southerners [ and northerners]. At the time, southerners who supported slavery felt that taking a man from freedom, then putting him in bondage, was a sin “man stealing.” Owning a person already in slavery (African slave and slave trade) and taking him in, often better provided for, was not seen as an evil. Southerners did not see bringing new people in slavery as a good thing, and their treatment while transported was cruel, so they outlawed the trade. Virginia, long before civil war, was the first state to abolish the slave trade. In certain circumstances, slaves were happy to be bought, sometimes brought to tears with the hope of getting out of the poor living conditions of the slave trade. Some southerners bought slaves out of pity for their condition. The north, even after it abolish slavery in their home states, were almost entirely responsible for the slave trade and bringing new slaves to the south before it was outlawed. The south had almost no ships that could even travel the distance.

    Slavery in the South how Prevalent was Slavery?

    Investment in a slave was expensive. According to the federal census there were only 385,000 slave owners in the entire south (thousands of blacks included). Even if all slaveholders had been white, that would amount to only 1.4 percent of whites in the country or 4.8 percent of southern whites owning one or more slaves.

    Slave Breeding

    In the book, Economics of Negro Slavery, it shows there is no one concrete example of slave breeding (breeding slaves for sale or to multiple slaves), just rumors. However, I have read at least one account in the slave narratives of slave breeding. Genetics and others calculators show that if it did happen, it was extremely rare. It also shows that the income that would be gained would be offset by uncontent slaves, runaways, caring for pregnancy, taking a woman out of work while pregnant, and a host of other expenses. Many lines of evidence show slave owners knew what was financially best; to maintain the negro family was most profitable for business, slave happiness, and work ethic. This is likely exactly the reason it was uncommon, if it happened at all. However some, such as one of the many blacks that owned slaves, William Ellison, sold infant slaves who were assumed to be the result of slave breeding, from his large plantation in South Carolina. This was looked down upon by his neighboring whites. Ellison also fed his slaves the least and punished harsher than any slave owner in the county. However, Africa did have multiple mass slave breading programs.


    Slave Education

    “Universal temper of masters was to promote and not to hinder it [education]... masters desired intelligent and morality of their servants...an intelligent christian servant was universally recognized as being a better servant”
    -R.L. Dabney, 1867


    Slaves were normally educated and taught the basics. Some slaves were taught to the point where they could run the plantation, such as on CSA president Jeff Davis’ plantation. Slaves that could read and write were more valuable and could do more jobs. The slaves usually received their education from the master’s children and wife, as well as from church. Overall, slaves in the south were better educated than anywhere in Africa at the time.

    “You know, the nigger was wild till the white man made what he has out of the nigger. He done ed'cate them real smart”
    -Frank bell Texas Slave Narratives

    Life Span

    According to the book, Time on the Cross: The Economics of American Negro Slavery (by scholars Robert William Fogel and Stanley L. Engerman), life expectancy in 1850 was 40 for whites and 36 for slaves (there is a 5 year gap today]. Slaves had a longer average life span than those who lived in Italy, Austria, Holland and France. Slaves had a longer life span than northern industrial workers as well. Residents of NY, Boston, and Philadelphia had life spans of 24 years. Slaves committed suicide at 1/3 the rate of whites in same time period. When the age of 20 was reached, the life expectancy was equal to whites, more slaves died young.

    Church

    “All the slaves big enogh and not sick, had to go to church on de sabbath”
    -Anne bell South Carolina Slave Narratives

    “For all the south are aware of the differences between religious and irreligious Negroes. The most devout of our slaves are the most faithful and honest in the discharge of their duties to their masters”
    -Matthew Estes, southern historian in 1846

    Slaves were given the Sabbath day of rest every week (biblical day of rest). While not universal, Slaves and masters often attended the same churches. Slaves were often given the freedom of what denomination to choose from. Masters realized they did not own the souls of their slaves, they belonged to God. Negro non pastors were allowed to preach to both white and black audiences. In 1786, the Simpson city Mississippi Baptist Church was created by whites and blacks, it had a mixed congregation. The first pastor in the First Baptist Church in LA was a black free man.

    “During my residence with master ford I had seen only the bright side of slavery, His was no heavy hand crushing us to the earth. He pointed upwards, and with benign and cheering words addressed us as fellow mortals, accountable, like himself, to the maker of us all. I think of him with affection, and had my family been with me, could have borne his gentile servitude without murmuring , all my days...there never was a more kind,noble,candid, christian man than William ford” -Solomon Northup, Louisiana servant of master Ford

    “In very many places at the south, a larger proportion of the slaves than of the whites has given evidence of being the children of God”
    -Nehemiah Adams a South Side View of Slavery 1854


    Native Born American Blacks

    In 1860, only 1% of blacks were immigrants from Africa, the rest being native born. A higher % of whites were immigrants at the time. America became a slave power not because of large imports of slaves, but because of life expectancy and keeping the black family intact.


    Runaway Slaves?

    “Blacks could have escaped to nearby union lines but few chose to do so, and instead remained at home and became the most essential element in the southern infrastructure to resisting northern invasion”
    -Professor Edward C. Smith


    Sometimes the picture portrayed is that slaves all wanted to run away from their masters and would do so any chance they got. While there is no question that many slaves ran away from bad conditions and bad masters, this occurrence was infrequent. During the decades leading up to the war, 1850's and 60's, only 1 out of every 4,919 slaves ran away. In antebellum America masters took there slaves by the thousands north and west without an issue of runaways. During the war a perfect opportunity for those who wanted to run presented itself, and those who wanted to could have done so. By the middle to end of the war, nearly all male whites were in service in the CSA army. The north invading the south and winning provided a great opportunity for slaves to run away, yet very few slaves chose to do so. According to Lincoln and secretary seawards numbers, 95% of slaves stayed home during the war.

    After the war the veterans of the confederacy wanted to build a statue recognizing the effort from the woman at home, the woman said instead to build a statue for the loyal slaves who made it all possible. The politically incorrect runaway slave you will not typically read about are those slaves that were captured by union soldiers, forced into service of manual labor (slavery) and ultimately ran away back to their masters. Many in the south felt the slaves had it very good, such as John Randolf who said “the slaves will advertise for runaway masters.”

    The following excerpt is taken from a slave narrative:
    Simon Phillips was one of 300 Negroes belonging to Bryant Watkins, a plantation owner of Greensboro, Alabama. He was a house man, which meant that he mixed the drinks, opened the carriage doors, brought refreshments on the porch to guests, saw that the carriage was always in the best of condition, and tended the front lawn. When asked about slave days, he gets a far-away expression in his eyes; an expression of tranquil joy."People," he says, "has the wrong idea of slave days. We was treated good. My massa never laid a hand on me durin' the whole time I was wid him. He scolded me once for not bringin' him a drink when I was supposed to, but he never whup me." ….."Not since those days," he states, "have I had such good food."......Sometime they [ negros slaves] loaned the massa money when he was hard pushed. "But what I want to say is, we didn't have no idea of runnin' and escapin'. We was happy."


    After the Slaves Were Released, Many Slaves Preferred Slavery / Race Relations Worsen After Slaves Were Freed

    “Before two years had passed after the surrender, there was two out of every three slaves who wished they was back with their marsters. The marsters’ kindness to the nigger after the war is the cause of the nigger having things today. There was a lot of love between marster and slave, and there is few of us that don’t love the white folks today.”
    -Slave Patsy Mitchner Slave Narratives

    “Things sure better long time ago then they be now. I know it. Colored people never had no debt to pay in slavery time. Never hear tell about no colored people been put in jail before freedom. Had more to eat and more to wear then, and had good clothes all the time ’cause white folks furnish everything, everything. Had plenty peas, rice, hog meat, rabbit, fish, and such as that.”
    -Sylvia Cannon, South Carolina Slave Narratives


    “The institution of slavery is a stain on this nation’s soul that will never be cleansed. It is just as wrong as wrong can be, a huge sin, and it is on our soul. There’s a second sin that’s almost as great and that’s emancipation.”
    - Shelby Foote



    The condition of the slave materially declined after the civil war. Now instead of being cared for by a master with basic needs met, they had to provide for themselves with no money/land of their own. Unlike free blacks, slaves had never been without a place to live, and free medical care. They had never starved, been without work, and had always been taken care of when they were sick or old. Speaking of money Anne Bell of south Carolina said “What I want wid it anyhow”, slaves were taken care of. As slave Smith Stevens said, often they simply went to go “work” for their former masters, now being paid, yet now having to cover basic medical care, food, clothing, and ended up in same situation or often worse. A former South Carolina slave said, “If we had not been set free in 1865 you would have discovered many wealthy black slaves laden with money we had made from our extra crop production.” Sickness rose, life expectancy dropped, blacks skilled in labor deteriorated, and the African American diet deteriorated.

    “Didn't have so much sickness in them days, and naturally they diden't die so fast. Folks lived a long time than”
    -Aunt Sally Georgia slave narratives

    The gap in earnings between whites and blacks rose from the time after the after Civil War until WW2. Many slaves simply refused their freedom. Sometimes when slaves heard that the war was over, they would start working extra hard and be on their best behavior to better their chances of remaining on the plantation.

    “Often I heard them declare that they would rather go back to slavery in the south, and be with their old masters, than to enjoy the freedom in the north” -Former slave Elizabeth Keckley

    After freedom, Negro crime skyrocketed. There were now numerous blacks without care, without their needs met (masters gone), with little to no money or land, and no way to provide for themselves. This led to the high crime rate and want of segregation on both sides. The high crime because of the freed negroes also led to increase racism. Charles Lyell noted how Negro crime in the 1830's was almost nonexistent; he said the Irish in a few years had done far worse than Negroes had through a hundred years. White crime versus blacks also rose due to the bitter defeats in war and politics they suffered. This led to many “Horrors” of former good willed masters against former slaves. Overall, race relations grew far worse in the decades after the civil war.

    “My mother was always right in the house with the white people and I was fed just like I was one of their children. They even done put me to bed with them. You see, this discrimination on color wasn’t as bad then as it is now. They handled you as a slave but they didn’t discriminate against you on account of color like they do now.”
    -Elija Henery Hopkins, Arkansas Slave Narratives

    “We had better then than now cause white men lynch an burn now and do other things they couldent do then”
    -Henry brown South Carolina Slave narratives


    “Race relations deteriorated at the end of the nineteenth century”
    -Douglas W. Bristol Knights of the Razor: Black Barbers in Slavery and Freedom

    The slave narratives tell of how bad things had gotten with the following generations of blacks and whites. Former slaves describe the newer generation of blacks as wild, disrespectful, lazy, lying, stealing, criminals, that have no respect and are not being raised right (they almost all say because they were not whipped, for which many slaves said they were thankful for). This caused race relations, they say, to worsen, along with the KKK, which started as a political weapon used against blacks to vote by disgruntled white southerners after losing political power in the war.

    It has suddenly and greatly diminished there share of the material goods [slaves after war] they before enjoyed the supplies of clothing and shoes now acquired by them do not reach a third of what they revived before the war”
    -R.L Dabney, 1867

    “De missus...rock me ter sleep an put me ter bed in her own bed. I wuz happy den...untill dem yankees come we wuznt happy at de surrender an we cussed old Abraham Lincoln all ober de place”
    -John Beckwith North Carolina Slave Narratives


    “I' seems to think us have more freedom when us slaves”
    -Abmstead Barrett Texas Slave narratives

    “I was happy all de time in slavery days, but dere ain’t much to git happy over now…”
    -Mary Rice, Alabama Slave Narratives

    "I wish times were like they use to be when we belonged to the white folks; we had better times then."
    -Ben Wall, Mississippi Slave Narratives

    “Master called all the slaves up and said 'you is just as free as I am. You can stay or go as you please'. We all stayed.In slavery times the old folks was cared for and now there ain't no one to see to them."
    -Smith Simmons, Alabama Slave Narratives

    "Our food them was a-way better that the stuff we gets today." [post slavery]
    -Emma Jones, Georgia Slave Narratives

    “Freedom is all right, but de niggers was better off befo' surrender”
    -Tempe Herndon Durham, North Carolina Slave Narratives


    I 'druther be alivin' back dere dan today 'caze us at least had plenty somp'n t'eat an' nothin' to worry about”
    -Henry Cheatam, Alabama Slave Narratives

    “All de slaves cried when de Yankees come, an dat most uv 'em stayed on a long time atter de war. My manmy plowed an done such work all de time uv slavery out she done it case she wanted to do it an not 'cause dey make her...All de slaves hate de Yankees an when de southern soldiers came late in de night all de niggers got out of de bed an holdin torches high dey march behin de soldiers, all of dem singing We'll hang Abe Lincoln on de Sour Apple Tree. yes mam, dey wuz sorry dat dey wuz freeman' dey ain't got no reason tu be glad, case dey wuz happier den dan now”
    -Alice Baugh North Carolina

    “More humble , affectionate, anxious to be allowed to remain as they are than the outside world, the readers of mrs Stowe would ever conceive. Not one expressed the slightest pleasure at the sudden freedom.”
    -Mary Chestnut, speaking of her slaves after the war

    “ I believe our slaves are the happiest three millions of human beings on whom the sun shines, into their Eden is coming Satan in the guise of an abolitionist” -James Hammond, plantation owner before the war
    “Old master dead an'gone and old mistis too, but I member'em jus'lak dey was,when dey looked after us whenst we belonged to em or dey belonged to us I dunno which it was....de times was better fo'de war...i goes to church and sings an' prays, an' when de good lord teks me, i'se ready to go, en I specs to see jesus an' old mistis an' old master when I gets to de he'benly mand”
    -Jane, Alabama Slave Narratives

    Dixie Land
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3IJ05QntXQ
    The song Dixie Land was written about a runaway former slave who is longing for the plantation of his birth.

    Uncle Tom's Cabin Versus Reality

    “Does yo' know de cause of de war? Well hyar's de cause, dis Uncle Tom's Cabin wuz de cause of it all an' its' de biggest lie what ever been gived ter de public.”
    Alice Baugh North Carolina

    "No subject [slavery] has been more generally misunderstood or more persistent misrepresented"
    -Jefferson Davis, The Rise And Fall Of The Confederate Government

    “Not a word had been said to me about slavery, my eyes taught me that some practical things in the system are wholly different from my anticipations.”
    -Nehemiah Adams a South Side View of Slavery 1854


    “The treatment which they revive, and the character of their masters, have been much misrepresented in the non-slave holding states”
    -Northerner Timothy Flint, 1833


    Most Americans, during, prior, and after the Civil War, got their knowledge of slavery not from observation, besides the worst cases such as runaway slaves who even than, were known to exaggerate their condition to gain extra sympathy and support. But from books on slavery, such as Uncle Tom's Cabin, by Harriot Stowe. Harriot Stowe had never even been to the south or seen a plantation.

    “it gives a northerner false conceptions of the actual state of things at the south”
    -Nehemiah Adams a South Side View of Slavery 1854

    Other misinformation and false views of slavery came from anti-slavery tracts such as The Liberator, by abolitionist William Lloyd Garrison. Despite the lack of accurate information, both authors had a large impact on the view of slavery in the North and Europe.

    “North might one day learn the truth about so called southern slavery”
    -Mississippi plantation owner, 1842 quoted in myths of American slavery

    Because the northern and European perception of slavery was based on books like Uncle Tom’s Cabin (by Harriet Beecher Stowe, who had never seen a plantation or been to the south), they were surprised to find out the truth during the war. As northern abolitionist Nehemiah Adams said after visiting the south, “where are your real slaves, such as we read of ?” When new Englander Fredrick Law Olmstead visited Virginia, he was “stunned” to see slaves grinning, singing, whistling, leaning on their hoes scarily working. All the slaves he said, were neatly dressed and overweight. When Englishmen Robert Russells came to the United States in 1854 and visited Richmond, Virginia, he observed large numbers of “carefree slaves” lofting around town, “As all were well dressed and light-hearted as one could possibly imagine.” Irish journalist William Howard Russell, while visiting Montgomery, Alabama in the mid 1800's said, “I precived a crown of very well dressed negroes men and woman. Their general appearance indicated much comfort and even luxury. I doubted if they all were slaves... whom do you belong to? He replied, “I'blong to massa smith sar.” So with the north's Uncle Tom’s Cabin view of slavery, they were assured that when the north went to war the slaves would rise up, rejoice, and fight for the union. However, this is not what happened, often when union troops passed by slaves in the field would sing “The bonnie Blue Flag” as a northern newspaper the Rhode Island Providence post said:

    “Negroes as a mass have shown no friendship to the union, have neither sought to achieve their liberty nor subdue their masters. The few thousand who have come into our lines at the expanse of whites rather seek a life of laziness and self dependence. Their sympathies are with the rebels.... The truth is there is nothing more humbling than to speak of negro loyalty. Abolition has accerted it from the beginning of the war, but every fact of the times proves its a mere accretion.”
    As well as Blackwoods magazine of England said 1862:

    “The negros bear the yoke [slavery] cheerfully and heartily join their fortunes to their masters in the great struggle they are know engaged.”

    Union officer Charles Francis Adams Jr. (great grandson of President John Adams) wrote in a letter home to his father in 1864 on how seeing slavery first hand versus what was believed in the north before the war said:

    “The conviction is forcing itself upon me that African slavery, as it existed in our slave states, was indeed a patriarchal institution, under which the slaves were not, as a whole, unhappy, cruelly treated or overworked. I am forced to this conclusion.”

    New Yorker Joseph Holt Ingram while visiting new Orleans said:

    “They all appear contented and happy, and highly elated at their sweet anticipations. Say not that the slavery of the Louisianan Negroes is a bitter drought.”

    A private from New Hampshire wrote:

    “After now having seen slavery for myself , I firmly believe that we yanks have been fooled. It is nothing like we were taught. Why just the other day I saw slaves going to church who were as happy and cheerful as can be.”


    Purpose of Presenting a Historical Understanding of Slavery

    "Slavery is a moral evil in any society...more so to the white than to the black."
    -Robert E Lee 1856


    Nothing is used in modern politics to divide and conquer “we the people” to set us up against each other than slavery to justify government overreach. I think a historical understanding can unite us and see how even in bad conditions, loving relationships were had and we share a common history that does not need to cause division today. As a Christian I do not think slavery is a good or a wanted practice. I also see the South as moving away from many of our founder’s view of slavery. I see slavery as inconsistent with the beliefs and values of many of the freedom and liberty loving founders of the republic of this nation. These founders overwhelmingly wanted to outlaw slavery.

    However slavery as commonly believed to be is not the slavery of the majority in the American South. This modern revisionist vast evil view of slavery started post ww2 after all survives were deceased. While it is true that horrible things happened during slavery these were the exception, not the rule. I am also making the assumption that you all know the terrible things that did occur during slavery, such as rape, murder, mistreatment, etc. These offenses can happen whenever one sinful human being has power over another [Just look at the totalitarian governments of last century]. My hope here is to fill in the historical facts you may be missing, to give a bigger and more accurate picture of slavery in the south. Telling only part of the history of the south is misleading, and that is what we have a lot of today. Awful things happened during slavery. However such cases were rare and often protected against by laws. The family unit to me is a good thing, yet it can also be abused such as a father murders a son, a wife murders her husband, daughter, or son, etc. That does not make the family wrong, but wrong in the way it was used. It is the same with police; their job and purpose is good, but in fallen world, there will always be abuse. I am not saying that slavery was good, but looking at only the worst cases and to then claim that all of slavery was so evil is deceitful. The real truth of slavery, while not “good” or a wanted circumstance, is far from what is generally known or believed.


    Look Away!!! Politically Incorrect Information About Slavery

    “If you can cut the people off from their history, then they can be easily persuaded.”
    -Karl Marx

    "Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past."
    -George Orwell, 1984.

    "The first step in liquidating a people is to erase its memory. Destroy its books, its history. Then have somebody write new books, manufacture a new culture, invent a new history"
    -Milan Hubl, Czek communist


    Is Slavery Unique to America? The History of Slavery

    “The idea of slavery was so deeply ingrained that no one questioned its propriety. All nations enjoyed it.”
    -A.O Sherrard, Freedom from Fear

    “In 1860, according to the census measure of wealth, the average southerner white male was nearly twice as wealthy as the average northern white male”
    -James McPherson Battle cry of Freedom

    Economical imperative brought on slavery in America, not some preconceived racial bias, slavery was a good investment, far out producing northern free labor by 35%. In Natchez, Mississippi, a population of 6,600 in 1861, there were over 500 millionaires. Besides NYC [ population 813,000] Natchez had more millionaires than any other city in the world. Slavery is not an American idea or a white idea. Slavery has been going on in thousands of nations since almost the beginning of time. Slavery was in America before any white men arrived. All races and groups of people have forced slavery on others of their own race and of other groups of people. Ancient cultures like Athens/Sparta had a 3-1 ration of slave to free man. When a culture denominated another culture, historically the result was slavery. The Romans owned slaves throughout the known world. The Romans had so many slaves that multiple large scale slave uprisings occurred. Arab Muslims enslaved a estimated 10 million Africans.

    Aztec's in South America always had and still have slaves in large numbers in South America. Native Americans enslaved other Native Americans. Multiple groups of Native American’s were cannibals and ate their victims. They also branded, burned them at the stake, buried them alive, killed them, or forced them into prostitution. Native Americans enslaved not only their own people, but whites and blacks as well. Most of the Native American tribes fought for the Confederacy and were owners of black slaves at the time of Civil War. One Choctaw Indian owned 227 blacks as slaves. Thousands of Jewish Americans owned slaves in the confederacy. Some native tribes like the Haida had slaves up until the 1950's in America. The Chinese and Asians also had slaves; In China, the Buddhist owned slaves.

    Africans had enslaved their own people in larger numbers and for longer periods before any white men came to Africa. Africa’s number one export was slaves; this was the case even before any white men came to purchase slaves. In Africa, blacks enslaved whites and millions of their own people. Some countries in Africa had as high as 75-90% of the population enslaved by fellow blacks. Throughout history all races have enslaved other races and people of their own race. Only 6% of slaves that were imported to the western world from Africa in 1640-1820 came to America; most went to places like Brazil, Cuba, the Caribbean’s, etc. Slavery in America only lasted 222 years, versus slavery in Europe and Africa which lasted thousands of years. Slaves in America were not reduced to slavery here, but were already enslaved in Africa before being sold to traders. There is an estimated 30 million slaves in the world today [2015], more than at any other time in history.

    White's Forced Into Slavery

    When some people hear the word slavery, they automatically picture a black slave and white master. It seems often that only whites can be guilty of slavery. However, just as any other people group, whites have been enslaved. Muslim Arabs have been enslaving whites, Christians, and Jews since around 600 A.D. Muslims sold whites into slavery in Africa; Over 1.5 million whites were enslaved during the 1700's in Africa. Whites [and Americans] were enslaved by the millions by North Africans and Muslims, forcing the USA to build a navy and go to war to stop the enslavement. In 1816, England went to war in Africa to free 3,000 English people.

    Whites have been enslaved “From Virginia to Barbados.” The English enslaved Irish/Vikings and Scots by the millions. In the English colonies of early America, prior to 1640, most sugar growing was done by forced white labor. In 1527, Native Americans enslaved white Spanish settlers in Florida. During the 1500's in Virginia, Algonquins Indians enslaved whites. The enslavement of whites was legal in Massachusetts in 1658. In England, a 1765 report gave a 90% mortality rate for slave children in “workhouses” in England.

    The word slave derives from slav, a Caucasian ethnic group often taken and enslaved by Muslims from the Ottoman Empire. Blacks in America [and the first slave holder in American history Anthony Johnson] owned whites and blacks as slaves. As white slaves and indentured servants decreased from Scotland/Ireland/Germany, the need for African slaves increased. By around 1756, it became mostly black slavery in America. According to John Adams, white labor was preferred by most to black labor at that time. Joseph Stalin enslaved an estimated 14.5 million of his own people [Russians]. There were white slaves in the south during the Civil War. There are accounts of white slaves in Virginia. As well, in letters between John Bell Hood and General Sherman, Sherman offered help to the citizens of Atlanta and slaves black and white after the fall of Atlanta (indicating the presence of white slaves in Georgia).

    “Did you know poor whites like slaves had to git a pass? I mean, a remit like as slaves, to sell anythin an to go places, or do anythin Jest as we Colored people, dey had to go to some big white man like Colonel Allen, dey did.....0ld Marster wuz more hard on dem poor white forks den he wus on us niggers......two sets of white folks slaves up my way....Dese two families worked on..Allen's farm as we did Off from us on a plot called Morgan's lot, there dey lived as slaves jes like us colored fo'ks Yes de poor whiteman had some dark an tough days. like us poor niggers I mean worked lashed an treated, sore of dem, jest as pitiful an unmerciful.”
    -Charles Charley Virginia Slave Narratives



    African Slaves Coming to America- The Source of American Slaves

    Slavery was not invented by Americans, it was inherited from Great Britain. Americans did not go to Africa and kidnap free blacks to force them into slavery. The slaves brought over from Africa were already enslaved by their own people; before 1820, no free blacks came to America. However, when the slaves did come to America they would usually be given the chance to buy or earn their freedom. Without the help from Africans, the transatlantic slave trade would not have been profitable and would not have come to America. As one slave ship captain said in the 1700's, “I have only transported them from one master to another.” Slavery in Africa was around before any white man came to Africa, and lasted long after slavery was ended in America. The origins of the slavery of Africans comes from Africa, not America, thousands of years before the first white man purchased a black slave. When American slave ships came to Africa, slavery was an already booming export of Africa. Most of African slaves had been sold and gone west to Arab Muslims and Asia. Africans enslaved their own people in numbers far greater than any country in the world; slavery being Africa’s number one export. Slavery was so common it was often used as money or payment; soldiers were sometimes paid with slaves. In some places in Africa, as much as 90% of the population was enslaved. Estimates in 1860 in Central Africa suggest a ratio of 3-1 slave to free man existed. Zanzibar's population was 75% slaves. The quality of life for the African slave that was brought to America improved in every-way (see below for more details).

    Who Abolished Slavery in Africa?

    Some African countries maintained legal slavery until 2007, such as the African Muslim country of Mauritania. There was no abolition movement within Pagan/Muslim Africa to end slavery before the American civil war. It was the white Christian pressure to abolish slavery in Africa. No race gets blamed more for slavery than whites, yet no race has done more to abolish slavery than whites.


    Blacks in slavery in Africa versus American servitude

    “The blacks are immeasurably better off here than in Africa, morally, socially & physically.”
    -Anti-slavery Confederate General Robert E. Lee on slavery

    “All this has been done at an enormous sacrifice of time and money, an exspance, indeed, which all the governments of Europe and all the christian missionaries, weather Romanist or protestant, could never have effected in five centuries”
    -Sir Charles Lyle in 1855 after noting all the advancements of slaves in America over blacks in Africa

    “Slaves as a race were neither over worked- nor treated with cruelty. It is absurd to suppose the contrary... nowhere the negro is left to himself in Africa has reached any higher stage of civilization than he possessed as a southern slave. His hours of labor were shorter, and his diet more plentiful, than those of the English agricultural labor"
    -Englishmen Henry Latham


    What happened in America and the south is better described as servitude, not slavery. As was common in America, north and south, the word “slaves” was usually used, they were referred to as servants. In true slavery, such as in pagan Africa, the master has 100% control over the slave, the slave has no value, no rights and no christian ethic of the master. Slaves cannot buy there freedom, do not get paid, there welfare is not considered, do not revive medical care, they are not taken care of when they are old and are generally worked to death. American servants were treated far better than the slaves of Africa; their lives had improved in every way. They received a better diet, education, medical care, security, along with working less, having a longer life span and having their spiritual and physical lives improve vastly.

    "In importing Africans, we do them no harm; we only transfer them from a state of slavery at home to a state of slavery attended by fewer calamities here [In america]"
    -Slave trader Theodore Dwight of Connecticut before a Congressional committee

    In pagan Africa, slaves had no value and no rights. They were completely under the control of the owner and most never lasted a year. They were underfed, overworked and endured more than what any human could handle. Slaves in Africa often did not make the trip to where they were to be sold or worked before dying. Babies and the weak and the old would simply die and be left behind or remain chained up and dragged along by family members during travels. It was common place that a chief or king would attack and kill/enslave entire villages; this happened all over Africa. The slaves were subjected to the most brutal forms of torture and treatment. Often hundreds and thousands of slaves were put to death when a local pagan king or chief died, so that the king or chief would have them as slaves in the afterlife. Slaves were kept in cages and fattened up to be eaten in pagan cannibalistic African areas. In Africa, slaves were kept alive to be tortured longer and were punished and tortured in the most horrific manners. There were multiple massive slave breeding areas. Babies were impaled in front of their mothers, people were cooked alive, and many other horrible atrocities were commonly done to slaves in Africa.

    “Some blacks kept there pagan ways, had whites not curbed their mumbo-jumboism [paganism] it would not be safe to go out his door at night”
    -Rias Body Georgia slave narratives

    “If it wasn't for the influence of the white race in the South, the Negro race wold revert to savagery within a year! why, if they knew for dead certain thir is not a policeman or officer of the law in Columbus tonight, the good Lord only knows what they'd,do tonight”
    -Uncle Wash Georgia Slave Narratives


    In 1861 a Georgia slave Berry Harrison published a pamphlet titled “Slavery and abolitionism, as viewed by a Georgia slave.” In it he said the abolitionist agitators were the worst enemy to the blacks and that slaves here were much better off than in Africa. In 1863 Vermonter John Henry Hopkins said “the south has done more than any people on earth for the African race.” Blacks were not taken from some African paradise; life in Africa was hard and often very short. Slavery existed in Africa and would continue to legally into the 21st century. The vast majority of the slaves brought to America were already in slavery in Africa and simply sold by slave traders. The family unit almost did not exists in west Africa; pagan customs made for a man to have multiple wives and his wives were often treated as personal slaves. Many of the slaves came from cannibalistic regions. If anything, the condition of life for American slaves was vastly improved by leaving the warlike pagan societies in Africa. As one former African slave who came to be enslaved in America said, in Harper's weekly 1860, “I was a slave in Africa, and I do not wish to return there, I'd rather be a slave to the white man in this country than be a slave to the black man in my country." As the well known scientist Charles Lyle noted above, nothing did or could improve the condition of the African slave, as much or as fast as American servitude, should it than be so condemned as the greatest of evil?

    “Our Negroes here are in paradise in comparison with the negro slave in Africa”
    -Historian Matthew Estes, 1847

    “It was mercy brought me from my pagan land” [Senegal]
    -Slave Phillis Wheatley

    Beneficial lasting effects of slavery on blacks in America

    “No I am not so foolish as to trust my life and property in a country [ Liberia] that is governed by black men”
    -Former slave of Jefferson Davis after being told to go to Liberia

    Blacks in America today live better than anywhere in Africa. They enjoy a higher standard of living, longer life span, higher literacy rate, lower death rate, lower infant death rate, higher income, and more security. Because slavery brought them here, blacks today in the US enjoy a better standard of living than any other blacks in the world. Slavery still exists in certain countries in Africa today. In Mississippi where the standard of living is lowest in America for blacks, it is still better than the best African country can offer on any one determination factor in standard of living. For example, in Burundi life expectancy is 42, in Sierra Leone it is 26.5. Somalia and many other countries in Africa have a large percent of their population starving to death. South Africa is the rape capital of the world.

    In Tanzania, elderly woman are executed as witches; often for “skin trade,” a pagan belief that human skin provides protection from evil spirits and demons. In Zimbabwe, one quarter of the population has AIDS, as well as two thirds the world's cases of HIV. The average income in Africa is $500 per year. Civil war devastates populations in Rwandan, Sudan and other countries. In America, blacks can make millions playing basketball, become president, or any other position they choose and work to achieve. The education level in Mississippi, which has the lowest in the US, is higher than any African country. Keith B. Richburg in his book, Out of Africa: a Black Man Confronts Africa, he notices the great difference were he reports on Africans killing and mutilating other Africans. As well he reports on the condition of life in Africa, and ends up being thankful his ancestors were brought over on slave ship long ago.

    Free blacks in the confederacy/ Black men as slave owners in the confederacy/ Native American men as slave owners in the confederacy

    Free Blacks


    There were thousands of free blacks in the south; in Virginia alone there were over 58,000 free blacks before the war. Virginia freed more slaves before 1861 than NY, NJ, Pennsylvanian and New England combined. In 1830 free blacks made up 24% of the population of New Orleans, by far the the largest southern city. Free blacks owned firearms and used whip on their slaves as punishment. Many blacks entered the middle class and some became “rich” plantation owners, earning many times that of the average white southerner. Many notable confederate figures released their slaves and were anti slavery, such as Robert E. Lee and John Randolf.

    America's first slave owner

    America's first slave owner (not indentured servant, but slave being life long property) was Anthony Johnson from Virginia in 1653. He was a black man who owned John Castor, a black man, and another white man. In the court case Johnson vs Parker in Northampton county Virginia, it was declared that the two men he owned were his property for life.

    Black men who owned slaves in the confederacy


    There were thousands of free black men who were slave owners in the confederacy; who supported slavery and the south. In the 1830 census, there were more than 10,000 free men of color who owned slaves; from South Carolina, Louisianan, Virginia, and Maryland alone. Black plantation owners hired white “labours” to work on plantations alongside black slaves. Black owners used whips and the same punishments as white owners did on their slaves. Slave ownership was common among free blacks. In South Carolina in 1840, the percent of free blacks owning slaves was between 72.1-77.7%. In South Carolina, many black slave owners did not release the slaves after war, instead they were forced to by the federal government.

    Black slave owners were generally as wealthy as white slave owners. A colored master near Canve River, LA had 7 plantations, owned 15,000 acres, worked more than 379 slaves valued at $1,000,000. The following are examples of black men and women who owned slaves: Auguste Donatto of St. Laundry Parish, LA owned a 500 acre plantation and at least 70 slaves. Justus Angel and Mistress L. Horry owned 84 slaves. Widow C. Richards and her son P.C. Richards owned over 100 slaves. Antoine Dubuclet's estimated value was $264,000; the average white southerner's value was less than $4,000. The Metoyer family of LA owned 400 black slaves. John Stanley of south Carolina owned 163 slaves. William Ellison of South Carolina owned over 100 acres and over 60 slaves. He also had a reputation for his brutal treatment of slaves (chaining up misbehaving slaves), slave breeding practices, and would not allow any of his slaves to buy their freedom.

    Early black heroes and patriots of the Revolution and elected officials

    During the American Revolution blacks and whites fought together. There were many black heroes and patriots of the war unknown to most today. Black heroes like Peter Salem, the hero of Bunker Hill; James Armistead, the hero of Yorktown and America’s first double spy. There were other battles, such as Lexington, where black patriots fought and were heroes of the battle. The first American shot dead in the war was a black man.

    There were early black elected officials like Wentworth Cheswell, who was first elected in 1768 and then elected to multiple offices from 1768-1817. Thomas Hercules was another, elected in 1792. Blacks were elected to congress in the 1800's. There were early black federal American elected officials such as black Judge Winthrop Chestnut, who was elected as judge in 1775 in New Hampshire. Joseph Hayne Rainey overcame slavery to become the first African American elected to the U. S. Congress, even presiding over the U. S. House. There were many other early black heroes such as Absalom Jones, or Benjamin Bennker, who was born in 1731 and would become what Thomas Jefferson called “The greatest scientist in American history.”

    The first self made woman millionaire in America was African American madam C.J Walker. “I am a woman who came from the cotton fields of the South. From there I was promoted to the washtub. From there I was promoted to the cook kitchen. And from there I promoted myself into the business of manufacturing hair goods and preparations….I have built my own factory on my own ground.” There were free blacks in the North and South who voted; Baltimore had more black votes than whites. More blacks than whites in Maryland voted to ratify the constitution

    Opinions Toward Slavery and Blacks in America Before the Civil war- The Americn Revolution and the Generation Following 1776-1830

    “In the period of the American revolution the interest of the south in slavery declined”
    -Historian Francis B Simkins, quoted in Myths of American slavery

    “Regret for the presence of the African on the soil, was the universal felling of that generation which succeeded the revolution”
    -Thomas Jefferson speaking of Virginia, Quoted in a defense of Virginia and the south R. L. Dabney

    “There was a growing felling all over the south for its abolition”
    -Jeff Davis CSA president, The life and death of Jefferson Davis


    Founders View of Slavery

    “The American revolution gave an enormous impetus to the struggle against slavery”
    -Robert William Fogel The Rise and Fall of American Slavery


    Upwards of 70% of the early Americans founders were anti-slavery abolitionist. But the individual states had power to determine their own slavery laws. While a few states continued to allow slavery, most did not. The states were allowed this individual control with the agreement that the slave trade would be outlawed in 20 years. Before the revolution, many Americans tried numerous times to end slavery before the war, yet England would not allow it. Once we were our own nation many founders and Americans released their slaves or outlawed slavery in their state. Many in the south wanted to end slavery including slave holders. Abolitionist worked together in the North and South, yet disagreed on how to end slavery. Northerners generally wanted slaves to go back to Africa, or simply let them free in America; Others [North and South] wanted them educated before letting them free. Southerners generally wanted slaves brought back to Africa and desired financial support for the loss of money associated with letting slaves go free. Since almost the entire southern economy was agrarian, to lose all the slaves would put the masters and family at risk of starvation. For example, a former slave said of his master,

    “I cannot forget old massa. He was good and kind. He never believed in slavery but his money was tied up in slaves and he didn't want to lose all he had. I knows I will see him in heaven and even though I have to walk ten miles for a bite of bread I can still be happy to think about the good times we had then.”
    -Gus Brown, Virginia Slave Narratives


    “If slavery did not now exist amongst them, they would not introduce it If it did now exist amongst us, we should not instantly give it up.... When southern people tell us they are no more responsible for the origin of slavery, than we; I acknowledge the fact. When it is said that the institution exists; and that it is very difficult to get rid of it, in any satisfactory way, I can understand and appreciate the saying. I surely will not blame them for not doing what I should not know how to do myself. If all earthly power were given me, I should not know what to do, as to the existing institution”
    -Abraham Lincoln


    Virginia outlawed the slave trade on October the 5th 1778 years before the federal. In 1787 the American states, north and south, unanimous outlawed slavery for states wishing to come into union from the west, thus limiting slavery [northwest ordinance]. After American gained its independence from England. In 1789 Georgia outlawed the slave trade 10 years before federal law would take effect. North Carolina outlawed the trade in 1794. In 1807, Representative Peter Early of Georgia declared before a congressional committee “We of the south consider slavery a dreadful evil.” By 1827, 4/5 of abolitionist organizations were from the south, both slave owning and non slave owning members.

    “Four-fifths of the people of his state, one of the oldest slave states, would be entirely free from it [slavery] were it possible”
    -Nehemiah Adams a South Side View of Slavery 1854

    The number of slaves let free [with no monetary compensation] by slave owners in the two decades after the ratification of the US constitution doubled each decade. In 1822, America purchased Liberia in Africa for returning slaves. In 1828 the governor of Mississippi, the state with the largest population of slaves and producer of cotton, said “slavery is an evil at best.” The 1832 the Mississippi constitution limited slavery imports to the state. 1832 Virginia politician Charles Faulkner said, “Slavery, it is admitted, is an evil.” On June 9, 1832 Virginia legislature George Dinwiddie said, “Slavery is an evil.” In 1835, a southern slave owner said of abolitionism “So also is the south, with but a few exceptions.” Clearly, overall, north and south, was just as the founders said and thought, slavery was dying of natural causes.

    “When the chains of the slave are broken to pieces it must be by a southern hand and thousands of southern gentleman are already extending their arms,ready to strike the blow”
    -Northerner Joseph H Ingrahman of free people of color in north 1835


    1830-1860 Slavery in the South begins to grow and move away from the founder’s

    “Before the devilment of the cotton interests, public sentiment warranted and sustained such action [abolition]
    -General assembly of the Presbyterian church


    There were two main factors that caused abolition to die off. First was cotton. Slaves were generally used on sugar plantations [white and black], however with the invention of the cotton gin by Eli Whitney, it made mass produce of cotton very valuable, and was best grown in the southern climate. With large money to be had, the moral Christian and southern abolitionist movement that was growing abated. In 1791, only 400 cotton bales were produced in the United States; by 1860, 3,841,416 bales were produced in the south, 2/3 of the world’s production. Some have said the invention of the cotton gin was responsible for the Civil War.

    “Had the cotton gin of Massachusetts inventor Eli Whitney not come on the scene in the late 1700’s, African slavery in this country was most likely doomed. The antislavery and emancipation feeling in the South was ascendant, but thwarted by profitable slave-trading and hungry cotton mills in New England which gave rise to more plantations in the South, and the perpetuation of slavery.”
    -Bernhard Thuersam- Director Cape Fear Historical Institute NC

    The second factor was the south’s reaction to northern abolitionist. During the second great awaking in America [Large Christian conversion], large numbers converted to Christ and the leading preachers started preaching slavery not just as a morally wrong as had been preached by previous abolitionist pastors, but as a sin in of itself. Southern theologians objected. This caused northern abolitionist to demand immediate freeing of slaves with no financial support to the slave owners. This is because sin does not deserve financial support or any help, but must be stopped immediately. The southerners [abolitionist] wanted financial support and a slow release of slaves to Africa. Abolitionist from the north went down south and agitated blacks and whites to rise up in violence against masters, such as the Nat Turner rebellion in 1831.

    “the south was just on the eve of abolishing slavery, the abolitionist arose, and put it back within its innermost entrenchments”
    -Nehemiah Adams a South Side View of Slavery 1854

    This caused the south to push back harder against the northern abolitionist and enforce harsh “slave codes.” This led to some masters no longer allowing slaves to learn to read for fear they would read abolitionist material and rise up against the owners. North Carolina’s free blacks could no longer vote. Northern abolitionists started to be viewed as dangerous and radicals. The south was concerned with a mass release of slaves in their states [former pagan cannabis from Africa and recent slave uprising in Hati and other places causes major fear] and did not want the entire southern economy to collapse; an economy which was based on cotton and agriculture. This pushed the north and south apart. Eventually all things southern became evil, and two distinct cultures and ways of life started to grow. The north starting hating southern culture and the south starting hating northern culture. From this distain of each other’s culture, the feud became more than just about slavery. As the nation grew so did the southern states, including slave states as they went west expanding from just the few original slave colonies of early America.


    Slavery today

    “You know that moment when you read something, and then immediately have to re-read it because you cannot believe it is true? That happened to me when I read that the levels of slavery and people trafficking today are greater than at any point in history.”
    -Freedom Project on cnn.com, Modern Day Slavery a Problem That Cant be Ignored

    “Trafficking is a crime that involves every nation on earth, and that includes our own”
    `Hilary Clinton

    “Each year 800,000 to 900,000 human beings are bought,sold, or forced across the worlds boarders”
    `President George Bush, 2003


    What many are unaware of is that there are more slaves today than in any other time in history. Global estimates of those enslaved today range from 21-36 million, with 100,000 enslaved at this moment in the US. According to the book Not for sale- the return of the global slave trade “More slaves live in bondage today than were bartered during four centuries of the trans Atlantic slave trade.” It is a trade that is worth $32 billion annually. In west Africa, 200,000 children are sold into slavery each year. As president Barack Obama said, “It's time to call human trafficking what it is slavery.” Often they are labor slaves, sex slaves, or slave soldiers. Among them, labor slaves and sex slaves are treated far worst than the typical slave was in the old south. Enslaved prostitute and forced labor slave are payed less, work more, is beaten more, is less healthy, has less free time, has worse living quarters. Given that it is illegal [ in USA], many are locked up and hidden when they are not working and their entire lives are confined to the work place with no laws to protect them. There is a larger demand for slaves today than at any point in history, even though it is illegal. Unlike in the old south, where a slave was a investment, to be cared for, today's slave once they lose their value are discarded and mistreated.


    References

    Born in Slavery: Slave Narratives from the Federal Writers' Project, 1936-1938
    http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/snhtml/mesnbibVolumes1.html
    Time on the Cross: The Economics of American Negro Slavery by Robert William Fogel and Stanley Engermann 1974 W.W Norton and company NY,NY.
    Without Consent or Contract The Rise and Fall of American Slavery Robert Fogel W.W Norton NY London 1989
    -Nehemiah Adams a south Side View of Slavery 1854
    A Defense Of Virginia And The South R.L Dabney 1867 Sprinkle publications
    Myths & Realities of American Slavery John C Perry Burd Street Press 2011
    The Private Mary Chesnut The Unpublished Diaries C Vann Woodward Elisabeth Muhlenfeld NY Oxford Press 1984
    Myths of American slavery Walter D Kennedy 2003 Pelican publishing company
    Everything You Were Taught About American Slavery Is Wrong Ask A Southerner Lochlainn Seabrook Sea raven press 2014
    Freedom and Fear. The Slave and his Emancipation by A.O Shearrard 1959
    Black Slaveowners: Free Black Slave Masters in South Carolina, 1790-1860 Larry Koger 1995 Mcfarland
    Black Confederates and Afro-Yankees in Civil War Virginia by Erwin L Jordan JR University of Virginia Press 1995
    Black Southerners in Confederate Armies: A Collection of Historical Accounts J.H Segars and barrow 2012 Pelican
    Black Confederates by Charles Kelly Borrow 2001 Pelican Press
    The Confederate States of America, 1861--1865: A History of the South by E.Merton coulter 1950
    The south was Right James Ronald Kennedy and Walter Donald Kennedy Pelican 2014 reprint
    Rutland Free Library Rutland, Vermont
    I'll Take my stand the south and the agrarian tradition by twelve southerners 1930 Louisianan state university press
    The confederate constitution http://www.libs.uga.edu/hargrett/sel...fed/trans.html
    Redeeming American Democracy Lessons from the confederate constitution Marshall L. Derosa Pelican press 2007
    The Confederate Constitution of 1861: An Inquiry Into American Constitutionalism By Marshall L. DeRosa University of Missouri Press
    The Constitution Of The Confederate States Of America Explained A Clause By Clause Study Of The Souths Magna Carta Lochlainn Seabrook Sea Raven Press 2012
    The politically incorrect guide to the south Clint Johnson 2007 Regnery publications inc
    The politically incorrect guide to the civil war H.W Crocker third 2008 Regnery publications inc
    The politically incorrect guide to American history Thomas e woods 2004 Regnery publications inc
    General Stand waties confederate Indians 1959 by Frank Cunnigham University of Oklahoma press
    The Campaigns of General Nathan Bedford Forrest and of Forrest Calvary by General Thomas Jordan and J.P Pryor 1868 Da Capo Press
    America Civil war Magazine - http://www.historynet.com/americas-civil-war
    Echoes From The South New York: E. B. Treat & Co., 1866 p. 85
    Robert E Lee letter to his wife 1856
    Woodrow Wilson, A History of The American People 1902
    The Virginia Quarterly Review 1931
    Thaddeus k Oglesby some truths of history a vindication of the south Malighners Atlanta Georgia 1903 p42
    The Confederate Veteran—the official publication of the United Confederate Veterans 1906
    Alexis de tocqueville Democracy in America 1835-1840
    A journey in the sea boarder states NY NY Mason brothers 1859 p17
    “Cotton Is King” speech, James Henry Hammond http://teachingamericanhistory.org/l...otton-is-king/
    Peter Kolchin,American Slavery, 1619-1877, pp. 120-122
    Booker T Washington up from slavery 1901
    Battle Hymns The Power And Popularity Of Music In The Civil War By Christian Mcwhirter The University Of North Carolina press 2012
    Battlefields of the South. Vol. 2, page 253
    Free At Last: A Documentary History of Slavery, Freedom, and the Civil War", 1992 edited by Ira Berlin, & others.
    Ethel Knight The Echo of the black horn 1951
    Douglass' Monthly, September 1861 Frederick Douglass
    Booker T Washington 1907 p 220-21 Philadelphia Geroge W Jacobs and co publishers
    Guardian of the Republic Allen West
    Guide to confederate issues,heroes, and sites of Alabama by the Alabama division sons of confederate veterans
    Six Frigates by Ian W Toll 2008 W.W Norton Ny London
    Nothing Like it in the world the men who built the Transcontinental Railroad Stephen Ambrose Simon and Schuster 2000
    Jesse James last rebel of the civil war T.J Stiles Alfred A Knopf 2002
    The Civil war PBS series by Ken Burns
    The American heritage series By Historian David Barton at wallbuilders.com
    Building on the American heritage series by David Barton 2011
    Americas godly heritage by David Barton 1992
    Foundations of freedom by David Barton 2015
    Journey to the past the african american slave experience
    http://www.encyclopediaofarkansas.ne...x?entryID=6304
    http://www.encyclopediavirginia.org/...61#start_entry
    http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com...ed-south/?_r=0
    The Story of Christianity volume 2 Justo Gonzalez The reformation to the present day 2010 Harper one publications
    Warriors of honor- The faith and legacies of Robert E Lee and Stonewall Jackson 2004
    Still Standing The stonewall Jackson Story 2007
    The life of Stonewall Jackson
    Monumental in search of America national treasure by Kirk Cameron 2012
    Last edited by total relism; 09-24-2017 at 11:44.
    “Its been said that when human beings stop believing in god they believe in nothing. The truth is much worse, they believe in anything.” Malcolm maggeridge

    The simple believes every word: but the prudent man looks well to his going. Proverbs -14.15
    The first to present his case seems right,till another comes forward and questions him -Proverbs 18.17

    In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
    Genesis 1.1

  2. #2
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Look Away Politically Incorrect Information on Slavery in the CSA, America, and W

    There is no need to put into perspective what is and has always been wrong, everybody did it (and still do) sure. Only question to be asked is 'would you be ok with it'

  3. #3

    Default Re: Look Away Politically Incorrect Information on Slavery in the CSA, America, and W

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony View Post
    There is no need to put into perspective what is and has always been wrong, everybody did it (and still do) sure. Only question to be asked is 'would you be ok with it'
    I do believe I am under a form of servitude 50 hours a day [see under Industrial Slave Wager Work https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...strialization]

    no i am not ok with any slavery nor do i want to present it as a positive desired institution. I simply want to tell the history of it that usually goes untold.





    A GAUNT Wolf was almost dead with hunger when he happened to meet a House-dog who was passing by. “Ah, Cousin,” said the Dog. “I knew how it would be; your irregular life will soon be the ruin of you. Why do you not work steadily as I do, and get your food regularly given to you?” 1
    “I would have no objection,” said the Wolf, “if I could only get a place.” 2
    “I will easily arrange that for you,” said the Dog; “come with me to my master and you shall share my work.” 3
    So the Wolf and the Dog went towards the town together. On the way there the Wolf noticed that the hair on a certain part of the Dog’s neck was very much worn away, so he asked him how that had come about. 4
    “Oh, it is nothing,” said the Dog. “That is only the place where the collar is put on at night to keep me chained up; it chafes a bit, but one soon gets used to it.” 5
    “Is that all?” said the Wolf. “Then good-bye to you, Master Dog.”
    “BETTER STARVE FREE THAN BE A FAT SLAVE.”

    http://www.bartleby.com/17/1/28.html
    “Its been said that when human beings stop believing in god they believe in nothing. The truth is much worse, they believe in anything.” Malcolm maggeridge

    The simple believes every word: but the prudent man looks well to his going. Proverbs -14.15
    The first to present his case seems right,till another comes forward and questions him -Proverbs 18.17

    In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
    Genesis 1.1

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    syö minun šortsini Member Space Invaders Champion, Metal Slug Champion, Bubble Trouble Champion, Curveball Champion, Moon Patrol Champion, Zelda Champion, Minigolf Champion El Barto's Avatar
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    Default Re: Look Away Politically Incorrect Information on Slavery in the CSA, America, and W

    Quote Originally Posted by total relism View Post
    What happened in America and the south is better described as servitude, not slavery.
    Erm, no?

    slave (noun): A person who is the property of another person and whose labor and also whose life often is subject to the owner's volition.

    serf (noun): A semifree peasant obliged to remain on the lord's land and to perform extensive chores for him.

    You might notice a slight difference between both the spelling and the meaning of the two terms.

    And all that drivel about their being called ‘servants’ and what-not, sugarcoating won't work.
    good lord| if you're telling the truth you're setting new records for scumminess as a townie -Renata on IM, 16/09/2011
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    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Look Away Politically Incorrect Information on Slavery in the CSA, America, and W

    Quote Originally Posted by El Barto View Post
    Erm, no?

    slave (noun): A person who is the property of another person and whose labor and also whose life often is subject to the owner's volition.

    serf (noun): A semifree peasant obliged to remain on the lord's land and to perform extensive chores for him.

    You might notice a slight difference between both the spelling and the meaning of the two terms.

    And all that drivel about their being called ‘servants’ and what-not, sugarcoating won't work.
    Not that I disagree with you regarding slavery, but don't knock "sugarcoating" in general. It is a valuable social lubricant.
    "The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." -- H. L. Mencken

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    Default Re: Look Away Politically Incorrect Information on Slavery in the CSA, America, and W

    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh View Post
    Not that I disagree with you regarding slavery, but don't knock "sugarcoating" in general. It is a valuable social lubricant.
    Valuable enough not to misuse, I hope you mean.
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    Default Re: Look Away Politically Incorrect Information on Slavery in the CSA, America, and W

    Some of Your points are valid and are discussed in entry level overviews of the antebellum. I say they are "valid" in the sense that you are splicing in facts and real quotes in order to create a false narrative. I would go so far as to say most of your points are primers that white nationalists use to obfuscate American history.

    Your assumptions about "blacks today" show a frighteningly shallow understanding of Africa An entire continent with hundreds if not thousands of societies. Why cherry pick stats from Zimbabwe? It is in a region of Africa 0000s of miles away from the European slave trade.

    Simply because slavery exists today does not absolve any state that participated in it.

    Your sources are either unreliable or cherry picked. Fogel is an economist concerned with the utility of the slave state. The rest of your sources, once again, are primers for white nationalists.
    There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford

    My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.

    I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.

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    Default Re: Look Away Politically Incorrect Information on Slavery in the CSA, America, and W

    I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume your a kid who is just really interested in the civil war. This happens a lot. American history in schools is very skimpy and conservative. So when kids first strike out on their own, they find a whole bunch of nuance which makes " the lost cause" seem more attractive.

    James McPhersons "Battle Cry of Freedom" is the official Oxford history and still the best one volume work. Buy it and read it. Go from there.
    There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford

    My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.

    I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Look Away Politically Incorrect Information on Slavery in the CSA, America, and W

    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    Some of Your points are valid and are discussed in entry level overviews of the antebellum. I say they are "valid" in the sense that you are splicing in facts and real quotes in order to create a false narrative. I would go so far as to say most of your points are primers that white nationalists use to obfuscate American history.
    I would say my op was never meant to tell the whole story, just the part of the story that is never told. Instead all we seem to get the very worst and that is presented as the entirety of slavery in the south. I would suggest it comes from Marxist historians who hate america.

    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    Your assumptions about "blacks today" show a frighteningly shallow understanding of Africa An entire continent with hundreds if not thousands of societies. Why cherry pick stats from Zimbabwe? It is in a region of Africa 0000s of miles away from the European slave trade.
    Very true. i chose some of the worst to show just how bad it is in Africa as a whole. But as i suggested, show me where in all of Africa blacks are better off than in Mississippi, where blacks are worst off in America.

    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    Simply because slavery exists today does not absolve any state that participated in it.
    agreed, never disagreed.


    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    Your sources are either unreliable or cherry picked. Fogel is an economist concerned with the utility of the slave state. The rest of your sources, once again, are primers for white nationalists.
    Please do tell. I think if you go throw my op you will find it is based almost exclusivity on first hand observation the majority from slaves, or northern abolitionist. . Your simply trying to divert the op from its historical foundation, and resort to a logical fallacies attacking a source you make a baseless claim about. If you believe it is historically off base, than please do show why.
    “Its been said that when human beings stop believing in god they believe in nothing. The truth is much worse, they believe in anything.” Malcolm maggeridge

    The simple believes every word: but the prudent man looks well to his going. Proverbs -14.15
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  10. #10

    Default Re: Look Away Politically Incorrect Information on Slavery in the CSA, America, and W

    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume your a kid who is just really interested in the civil war. This happens a lot. American history in schools is very skimpy and conservative. So when kids first strike out on their own, they find a whole bunch of nuance which makes " the lost cause" seem more attractive.
    I want no benifits so give none.

    I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume your a kid who is just really interested in the civil war. This happens a lot. American history in schools is very liberal and selective. So when kids first strike out on their own, they find a whole bunch of first hand historical information which makes "the standard story" seem less attractive.


    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    James McPhersons "Battle Cry of Freedom" is the official Oxford history and still the best one volume work. Buy it and read it. Go from there.
    I have read it, it is behind me on my book shelf. It had very little on what slavery was like. But good book. I would suggest to you reading some first hand accounts of slavery from the time period. That way we can avoid the 1950's-to modern revisionism that claims slavery was as evil...as well it is usually presented.
    Last edited by total relism; 05-12-2017 at 01:19.
    “Its been said that when human beings stop believing in god they believe in nothing. The truth is much worse, they believe in anything.” Malcolm maggeridge

    The simple believes every word: but the prudent man looks well to his going. Proverbs -14.15
    The first to present his case seems right,till another comes forward and questions him -Proverbs 18.17

    In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
    Genesis 1.1

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Look Away Politically Incorrect Information on Slavery in the CSA, America, and W

    Quote Originally Posted by total relism View Post
    I would suggest it comes from Marxist historians who hate america.
    Oh, really.
    Quote Originally Posted by total relism
    I think if you go throw my op you will find it is based almost exclusivity on first hand observation the majority from slaves, or northern abolitionist.
    Either you were born 180 years ago, give or take, or you simply have a somewhat tenuous grasp of the basic rules of sentence construction in the English language in its contemporary written form.
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    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Look Away Politically Incorrect Information on Slavery in the CSA, America, and W

    Quote Originally Posted by total relism View Post
    I want no benifits so give none.

    I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume your a kid who is just really interested in the civil war. This happens a lot. American history in schools is very liberal and selective. So when kids first strike out on their own, they find a whole bunch of first hand historical information which makes "the standard story" seem less attractive.

    I have read it, it is behind me on my book shelf. It had very little on what slavery was like. But good book. I would suggest to you reading some first hand accounts of slavery from the time period. That way we can avoid the 1950's-to modern revisionism that claims slavery was as evil...as well it is usually presented.
    If the fact that slavery, throughout history, has often been a bit hum-drum as to conditions and the like is true, and I will stipulate it, it does not detract from the basic fact that slavery is AN evil. In slavery, the choice to chart one's own course is not simply constrained by circumstance (happens to us all) or by the vagaries of chance (opening your buggy whip manufactory 3 years before the auto is invented), that choice is siezed and taken by another. All who keep slaves, however benign the conditions, are effectively treating them -- and often viewing them -- as less than human. This is every bit as true of this century's Moldavan girl sold by her family into whoredom to cut down on costs as it was of the field hand working the indigo fields of Louisiana in 1837.

    For a majority of the time blacks have lived in the American South (though thankfully NOT a majority of the time they have lived in the USA) the largest segment of the black population was held in bondage and far too much of the care that was, indeed, shown for many of them was done so for many of the same reasons that a good plow horse receives care. Fitting I suppose, as far more of the births were recorded in the farm's "stock" records than were recorded in any family Bible.
    "The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman

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  13. #13

    Default Re: Look Away Politically Incorrect Information on Slavery in the CSA, America, and W

    Just checked in Fogel's book on slavery, p. 78:

    So the paradox of the longer northern work year is resolved by the fact that dairying and livestock accounted for 38 percent of the output of northern farms, while the corresponding figure for the large
    slave plantations was hardly 5 percent. The discovery that the slave work year was shorter than the free work year does not contradict the proposition that slave labor was more intensely exploited than free labor,
    but only the proposition that such exploitation took the form of more hours per year.
    Another point, slaves were fed more than typical laborers because the slaves could not physically perform their abnormal labors without the additional caloric load. Not supportive of a 'good treatment' narrative. Suggests unreliable selection, interpretation, and presentation of sources by the poster.
    Last edited by Montmorency; 05-12-2017 at 05:20.
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    Default Re: Look Away Politically Incorrect Information on Slavery in the CSA, America, and W

    Yea not worth it.
    There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford

    My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.

    I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Look Away Politically Incorrect Information on Slavery in the CSA, America, and W

    Quote Originally Posted by Montmorency View Post
    Suggests unreliable selection, interpretation, and presentation of sources by the poster.
    Given that in his first few lines he says that slavery is wrong and then spends thousands of words defending it, I think he can't even interpret nor present his own ideas reliably.
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    Default Re: Look Away Politically Incorrect Information on Slavery in the CSA, America, and W

    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh View Post
    If the fact that slavery, throughout history, has often been a bit hum-drum as to conditions and the like is true, and I will stipulate it, it does not detract from the basic fact that slavery is AN evil.

    From my op

    "As a Christian I do not think slavery is a good or wanted practice. I also see the South as moving away from our founder’s view of slavery. For example, on March, 21 1861 Confederate Vice President Alexander Stevens said:

    “The prevailing ideas entertained by him [Thomas Jefferson] and most of the leading statesmen at the time of the formation of the old Constitution were that the enslavement of the African was in violation of the laws of nature – that it was wrong in principle – socially, morally, and politically. It was an evil they knew not well how to deal with, but the general opinion of the men of that day was that somehow or other, in the order of Providence, the institution would be evanescent [temporary] and pass away.”

    I see slavery as inconsistent with the beliefs and values of many of the freedom and liberty loving founders of the republic of this nation. These founders overwhelmingly wanted to outlaw slavery. "

    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh View Post
    In slavery, the choice to chart one's own course is not simply constrained by circumstance (happens to us all) or by the vagaries of chance (opening your buggy whip manufactory 3 years before the auto is invented), that choice is siezed and taken by another.
    In some cases. As my op pointed out slaves could improve their condition and if wanted, usually, earn there freedom.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh View Post
    All who keep slaves, however benign the conditions, are effectively treating them -- and often viewing them -- as less than human.
    This was not in anyway the view of the vast majority of southern christian slave owners. The right to own slaves had been universal around the world and was not an evolutionary lower human view. That comes more post darwin.


    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh View Post
    For a majority of the time blacks have lived in the American South (though thankfully NOT a majority of the time they have lived in the USA) the largest segment of the black population was held in bondage and far too much of the care that was, indeed, shown for many of them was done so for many of the same reasons that a good plow horse receives care. Fitting I suppose, as far more of the births were recorded in the farm's "stock" records than were recorded in any family Bible.
    While i dont disagree wholly, you cant deny the opposite also occurred of family love relationships and friendships. Despite a burden, care was given both ways. The fact that slaves were legal property and kept in a category legally as other property, says nothing to how they were viewed by their owners. Simply the legality of human property.



    Good post.
    “Its been said that when human beings stop believing in god they believe in nothing. The truth is much worse, they believe in anything.” Malcolm maggeridge

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    Default Re: Look Away Politically Incorrect Information on Slavery in the CSA, America, and W

    Quote Originally Posted by El Barto View Post
    Given that in his first few lines he says that slavery is wrong and then spends thousands of words defending it, I think he can't even interpret nor present his own ideas reliably.
    I see it another way. Admit that to my worldview slavery is wrong, than go on and tell historical information about the institution that is generally ignored. However if that is what you concluded from reading my op. Than i think you can't even interpret nor present my own ideas reliably, and i wish you would not attempt it given the above you have written.
    “Its been said that when human beings stop believing in god they believe in nothing. The truth is much worse, they believe in anything.” Malcolm maggeridge

    The simple believes every word: but the prudent man looks well to his going. Proverbs -14.15
    The first to present his case seems right,till another comes forward and questions him -Proverbs 18.17

    In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
    Genesis 1.1

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    Default Re: Look Away Politically Incorrect Information on Slavery in the CSA, America, and W

    Really? You conveniently ignored the part where I immediately dismantled your whole ‘it wasn't really slavery’ argument.
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    Default Re: Look Away Politically Incorrect Information on Slavery in the CSA, America, and W

    Quote Originally Posted by Montmorency View Post
    Just checked in Fogel's book on slavery, p. 78:



    Another point, slaves were fed more than typical laborers because the slaves could not physically perform their abnormal labors without the additional caloric load. Not supportive of a 'good treatment' narrative. Suggests unreliable selection, interpretation, and presentation of sources by the poster.
    Or facts. They were fed well. It is often claimed they were underfed.

    “There is no question that the slave diet was sufficient to maintain the slave body wight and general health”
    -Robert William Fogel The Rise and Fall of American Slavery

    I never said because they were fed well, therefore they were well treated. I was simply pointing out the fact, they were well fed so to claim they were half starved, would be false.

    Not all had a heavy work load either. See under Condition of the slave in the South / Work all day, no play?
    “Its been said that when human beings stop believing in god they believe in nothing. The truth is much worse, they believe in anything.” Malcolm maggeridge

    The simple believes every word: but the prudent man looks well to his going. Proverbs -14.15
    The first to present his case seems right,till another comes forward and questions him -Proverbs 18.17

    In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
    Genesis 1.1

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    Default Re: Look Away Politically Incorrect Information on Slavery in the CSA, America, and W

    Quote Originally Posted by El Barto View Post
    Really? You conveniently ignored the part where I immediately dismantled your whole ‘it wasn't really slavery’ argument.
    It was not slavery as we understand it commonly. In most all cases they had rights, legal protection, earned money, could gain freedom and many other positives associated with servitude, not slavery. You "dismantled" nothing.

    But lest call it slavery [as it was] it was a "slavery" more common to the average persons understanding of what servitude was. We still have servitude today [and slavery in a much worse form]
    “Its been said that when human beings stop believing in god they believe in nothing. The truth is much worse, they believe in anything.” Malcolm maggeridge

    The simple believes every word: but the prudent man looks well to his going. Proverbs -14.15
    The first to present his case seems right,till another comes forward and questions him -Proverbs 18.17

    In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
    Genesis 1.1

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    Default Re: Look Away Politically Incorrect Information on Slavery in the CSA, America, and W

    Quote Originally Posted by total relism View Post
    It was not slavery as we understand it commonly. In most all cases they had rights, legal protection, earned money, could gain freedom and many other positives associated with servitude, not slavery. You "dismantled" nothing.
    Except that all those have been features of slavery throughout history, for millennia.
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    Default Re: Look Away Politically Incorrect Information on Slavery in the CSA, America, and W

    total:

    I was not making my statement as an out-and-out disagreement with your opening post. Your comments are pretty well sourced and DO represent some of the thinking on the issue of slavery then current. So while I am taking a different tone than you, do not think I am dismissing what you say.

    You are certainly correct that human bondage has been an accepted norm for the bulk of human history and in a majority of human polities over time. Were countries able to decide for themselves today --absent outside economic pressure -- I suspect that slavery would still be viewed as acceptable practice in a significant minority of polities.

    I am wondering however, if you view of slavery is colored too much by slavery as practiced in the Empire under the laws of divus IIlius than in the American South.

    Manumission tended to be something given as a gift by the slave owner (whether to salve their own conscience or for whatever reason). It was not usually "earnable" in the American South -- or the New World in general -- as it documentably was in the Roman Empire. There certainly was no analogous cliental system or implicit system for progressing from slave to freedman to possible citizenship as there certainly was in Imperial Rome.

    So, if you wish to assert that that depiction of slavery in Uncle Tom's Cabin was a cherry-picked effort that combined all of the nastier aspects into one story that was at best atypical, then I am in full agreement. Mistreatment and abuse would have been the exception, not the norm, or the whole thing would have gone the way of Nat Turner in a hot minute.

    My problems are with the inherent inequity of the servile condition as a whole, and I do not consider its historic commonality to be adequate justification for it.
    "The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman

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    Default Re: Look Away Politically Incorrect Information on Slavery in the CSA, America, and W

    His sources are SCV charlatans
    There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford

    My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.

    I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.

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    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Look Away Politically Incorrect Information on Slavery in the CSA, America, and W

    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh View Post
    total:

    I was not making my statement as an out-and-out disagreement with your opening post. Your comments are pretty well sourced and DO represent some of the thinking on the issue of slavery then current. So while I am taking a different tone than you, do not think I am dismissing what you say.

    You are certainly correct that human bondage has been an accepted norm for the bulk of human history and in a majority of human polities over time. Were countries able to decide for themselves today --absent outside economic pressure -- I suspect that slavery would still be viewed as acceptable practice in a significant minority of polities.

    I am wondering however, if you view of slavery is colored too much by slavery as practiced in the Empire under the laws of divus IIlius than in the American South.

    Manumission tended to be something given as a gift by the slave owner (whether to salve their own conscience or for whatever reason). It was not usually "earnable" in the American South -- or the New World in general -- as it documentably was in the Roman Empire. There certainly was no analogous cliental system or implicit system for progressing from slave to freedman to possible citizenship as there certainly was in Imperial Rome.

    So, if you wish to assert that that depiction of slavery in Uncle Tom's Cabin was a cherry-picked effort that combined all of the nastier aspects into one story that was at best atypical, then I am in full agreement. Mistreatment and abuse would have been the exception, not the norm, or the whole thing would have gone the way of Nat Turner in a hot minute.

    My problems are with the inherent inequity of the servile condition as a whole, and I do not consider its historic commonality to be adequate justification for it.
    And more to the point, slavery was definitely not regarded as the norm by Europeans by the time of the ACW, hence the Confederate cause being anathema to the European countries from whom they wished to gain recognition. InsaneApache has posted in the monastery about the Lancashire mill workers who refused to work cotton imported from the south, who suffered unemployment and starvation as a result, yet who held firm in their convictions. Whatever historical commonality t_r wishes to claim, it certainly dd not apply to Europeans and their descendants by 1860.

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    Default Re: Look Away Politically Incorrect Information on Slavery in the CSA, America, and W

    Quote Originally Posted by total relism View Post
    I would suggest it comes from Marxist historians who hate america.
    And yet, your copy-pasted OP begins with a quote from Marx. As a side note, Marxist historians have a particular interpetation of history, which happens to reject imaginary notions, such as nationalism or religion, as somehow being meaningfully positive to society.

    This is why, tribalists hate it, not because Marxism is anti-American or anti-CSA. In fact, Marxism rejects a common misconception that slavery was abolished in the industrialized North, because the factory owners were more compassionate.

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    Default Re: Look Away Politically Incorrect Information on Slavery in the CSA, America, and W

    Quote Originally Posted by Crandar View Post
    And yet, your copy-pasted OP begins with a quote from Marx. As a side note, Marxist historians have a particular interpetation of history, which happens to reject imaginary notions, such as nationalism or religion, as somehow being meaningfully positive to society.

    This is why, tribalists hate it, not because Marxism is anti-American or anti-CSA. In fact, Marxism rejects a common misconception that slavery was abolished in the industrialized North, because the factory owners were more compassionate.
    The Marxist reading of the decline of slavery is that free labour was cheaper as they had no owners who had to take responsibility for their welfare, but were free to swim or sink according to their own means. In contrast, the south had a significant proportion of their capital tied up in slaves, which would disappear if emancipation occurred en masse. The Whig reading of history probably emphasises the philosophical aspects more. The Marxist reading of history concentrates on the adage: follow the money.

  27. #27
    Member Member Crandar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Look Away Politically Incorrect Information on Slavery in the CSA, America, and W

    Yes, I agree. Also, the other factor is the difference between the work in the plantations and the factory. Skilled workers are needed for factories, who need to be motivated by a regular salary, something not necessary for a slave tasked to collect cotton or tobacco.

  28. #28

    Default Re: Look Away Politically Incorrect Information on Slavery in the CSA, America, and W

    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh View Post
    total:

    I was not making my statement as an out-and-out disagreement with your opening post. Your comments are pretty well sourced and DO represent some of the thinking on the issue of slavery then current. So while I am taking a different tone than you, do not think I am dismissing what you say.

    You are certainly correct that human bondage has been an accepted norm for the bulk of human history and in a majority of human polities over time. Were countries able to decide for themselves today --absent outside economic pressure -- I suspect that slavery would still be viewed as acceptable practice in a significant minority of polities.

    I am wondering however, if you view of slavery is colored too much by slavery as practiced in the Empire under the laws of divus IIlius than in the American South.

    Manumission tended to be something given as a gift by the slave owner (whether to salve their own conscience or for whatever reason). It was not usually "earnable" in the American South -- or the New World in general -- as it documentably was in the Roman Empire. There certainly was no analogous cliental system or implicit system for progressing from slave to freedman to possible citizenship as there certainly was in Imperial Rome.

    So, if you wish to assert that that depiction of slavery in Uncle Tom's Cabin was a cherry-picked effort that combined all of the nastier aspects into one story that was at best atypical, then I am in full agreement. Mistreatment and abuse would have been the exception, not the norm, or the whole thing would have gone the way of Nat Turner in a hot minute.

    My problems are with the inherent inequity of the servile condition as a whole, and I do not consider its historic commonality to be adequate justification for it.
    Agreed.
    “Its been said that when human beings stop believing in god they believe in nothing. The truth is much worse, they believe in anything.” Malcolm maggeridge

    The simple believes every word: but the prudent man looks well to his going. Proverbs -14.15
    The first to present his case seems right,till another comes forward and questions him -Proverbs 18.17

    In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
    Genesis 1.1

  29. #29

    Default Re: Look Away Politically Incorrect Information on Slavery in the CSA, America, and W

    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
    And more to the point, slavery was definitely not regarded as the norm by Europeans by the time of the ACW, hence the Confederate cause being anathema to the European countries from whom they wished to gain recognition. InsaneApache has posted in the monastery about the Lancashire mill workers who refused to work cotton imported from the south, who suffered unemployment and starvation as a result, yet who held firm in their convictions. Whatever historical commonality t_r wishes to claim, it certainly dd not apply to Europeans and their descendants by 1860.
    You have to admire the conviction of a man like that. However, it is likely he was impacted by works of fiction like uncle toms cabin.
    “Its been said that when human beings stop believing in god they believe in nothing. The truth is much worse, they believe in anything.” Malcolm maggeridge

    The simple believes every word: but the prudent man looks well to his going. Proverbs -14.15
    The first to present his case seems right,till another comes forward and questions him -Proverbs 18.17

    In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
    Genesis 1.1

  30. #30

    Default Re: Look Away Politically Incorrect Information on Slavery in the CSA, America, and W

    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
    The Marxist reading of the decline of slavery is that free labour was cheaper as they had no owners who had to take responsibility for their welfare, but were free to swim or sink according to their own means. I.
    I would agree.


    Industrial Slave Wager Work


    “wage labor was a from of dependency that seemed to contradict the republican principles on which the country was founded” the core of republicanism, was liberty...Thomas Jefferson had defined the essence of liberty as Independence, which required the ownership of productive property. A man dependent on others for a living could never be truly free, nor could a dependent class constitute the basis of a republican government...wage laboururs were also dependent, that was why Jefferson feared the devilment of industrial capitalism with its need for wage labors”
    -James McPherson Battle cry of freedom

    “One half of them prefers hiring their servants for life, and the other by the hour.”
    -Englishmen Thomas Carlisle noted on differences between northern Industrial worker and southern slave

    “That in some countries the laboring poor were called freedmen, in others they were called slaves, but that the difference as to the state was imaginary only”
    -John Adams

    The south and the founders condemned the “slave wager work” of industrialization and factories. conformity and industrial work would produce a compliant people who would become servants of their boss and in turn, the government. The south was “unwilling to be dehumanized, to be reduced to cogs in a labor process that seemed as inhuman as the machines.” The founders were “concerned as rural conservatives about the dangers to the republic from hordes of propetyless urban workers.” C.S Lewis said of the industrial revolution, it was bad for culture and caused “country farmers who were masters of their own land to become a servant of another in a city with no land.” J.R.R Toliken saw industrial workers as “modern slavery for totalitarianism governments using people as tools for own finical gain” he as southerns felt “men should work with their hands not with machines.”

    The north “Transitioned from independent, home based production, to wage based factory labor viewed by many as a form of slavery incompatible with republican democracy itself”
    -Kevin Morrow The Civil war

    The progressives and northern industrialist wanted collectivism and complete control of the individual. Industrial work needs, and progressive politicians wanted, a populous that is complacent, complaint, non thinking, conformist, dependent, and collectivist who were willing to give up self and individual liberty for collective needs. Men that work not as self sufficient individuals on a farm, but an equal part in a collective factory work “all in it together” working to the same end product, often same pay socialism/communism for each job. Further they needed men that are not free, but work as a dependent “slave wager work” Fit for urban and industrial work. Supporting a stronger central government and increasing dependent block of enslaved voters. “Their dependence on their employees for a living made clerks, and tradesmen slaves to their masters politics.”

    “We live in an industrial economy. Some say we are actually now in a service economy. If so, it is still a part of the industrial paradigm. In such an economy, the typical family is not a producer of goods. It is a collection of individual consumers. This is the way the industrial providers like it to be. They want everyone to be dependent on them. But that is contrary to the historical pattern.
    -The southern Agrarian

    “The game plan of northern industrialist, who were fighting not for black freedom, but for the freedom to exploit and devolve the American market...The only people who could say “free at last” after the civil war were northern industrialist and their allies”
    -Lerone Vennett JR Forced into Glory Abraham Lincolns White Dream

    The northern industrialist were not against slavery, they were against the southern version of slavery. They wanted not a southern white man to be master, but they wanted the government/industrialist to be the proper master. In this form of slavery the new master would be the factory manager. Dependence on wages robbed a man of his independence. With industrial “wage slavery” There was no difference than slave labor. The boss was like the slave owner, he determined hours of toil, pace of work, division of labor, levels of wages, and could hire and fire at will. The workers were in lockstep and turned into machines. This new form of slavery was in fact more profitable for the master since he was no longer responsible for providing food, shelter, and medical support for his slaves. Comparing slavery with industrial factory workers John Haley of Maine stated

    “Our plan is more profitable [non slave factory workers] we take care of no children or sick people, except as paupers, while owners of slaves have to provide for them from birth till death”
    -John Haley, 17th Maine

    Instead of leisure in our work, we know work 9-5 And became Slaves to the clock. We are than to turn off our “worker side” and turn on our “Leisure side.” However man is not a machine and cannot do such a thing. It leaves us unsatisfied with either. The Industrial revolution produced its super rich and multiple the poor while it shrank the middle class. The super rich were seen as a threat by the founders to liberty because they might influence the poor with their wealth [see George Soros]. Dependent poor also attacked liberty as they would seek government to redistribute from the working class to them as dependents. “Equal rights to all- special privileges to none” was a cry from the agrarians. In the agrarian society no-one who worked, would be poor.

    “The difference between us is, that our slaves are hired for life and well compensated; there is no starvation, no begging, no want of employment among our people, and not too much employment either. Yours are hired by the day, not cared for, and scantily compensated, which may be proved in the most painful manner, at any hour in any street of your large towns. Why, you meet more beggars in one day, in any single street of the city of New York, than you would meet in a lifetime in the whole South.”
    -“Cotton is King” speech, James Henry Hammond
    https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...ustrialization
    “Its been said that when human beings stop believing in god they believe in nothing. The truth is much worse, they believe in anything.” Malcolm maggeridge

    The simple believes every word: but the prudent man looks well to his going. Proverbs -14.15
    The first to present his case seems right,till another comes forward and questions him -Proverbs 18.17

    In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
    Genesis 1.1

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